OSU Scandal

SoonerNorm said:
When you find out SI lied about some things, it sure makes me question what else could they be lying about.
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not sure if SI lied about anything....but possibly didn't do research to make sure everything that the people they interviewed said was correct.
 
Two journalism items from recent memory come to mind, one an actual event, the other a fictional but relevant TV drama: A) the Frank Gifford affair and B) the Genoa story from Aaron Sorkin's mind on the TV show "Newsroom."

In A) the Frank Gifford affair where Frank took up with a blonde he met on an airplane flight was the classic example of journalistic "got you" and it was played perfectly by the expert in "got youse" the National Enquirer.

In case anybody forgot, the National Enquirer heard Frank had a roving eye and "planted" a busty blonde on the plane in the seat next to Frank. Conversation, flirtation, one thing, another thing led to Frank bedding the woman in the hotel where they happened to both be staying.

That wasn't the "got you." The "got you" was the trap they had laid knowing Kathy Lee and her sanctimonious nature would go on TV to say the whole thing was a damn lie and she'll be suing. That is exactly what happened and provided the spark to sell twice as many papers in the follow up as they had sold in the first issue.

For in the first issue, all they gave us was stock pictures of Frank and separate pictures of the blonde and quotes from the blonde. In the follow-up after Kathy Lee had blown her stack, the Enquirer released photos of the couple together kissing, walking into his room, even more because they had a photog following and recording the whole thing, even with audio tape. The trap was set. All they needed was some crazy TV lady to help them sell even more papers.

With that in mind, OSU fans need to be careful what they wish for. It could be a trap to make things look even worse.

In B) the Genoa serin gas episode featured in HBOs Newsroom we see a very well crafted story showing how a vindictive CIA operative can plant a false story that baits an ambitious reporter into not only following it but
editing an interview tape to make the interview fit his narrative.

If you saw that show, and this is why I mention it on a basketball site, you'll know the reporter was found out BECAUSE the general being interviewed insisted a basketball game be left on the TV behind him. The shot clocked in the background revealed the tape had been altered. It was a clever Aaron Sorkin device.

Two stories above, two possibilities relating to the OSU expose. I suspect there's bit drawn from both scenarios when you peel back the layers.
 
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Interesting stories, Sillisooner!

It's possible, of course, that one or both of the pictures you painted is being played out here. Seems to me the more likely "gotcha moment" of the two could come if OSU forces SI to release the taped interviews. It's harder for me to believe that sixty plus former players would be part of a conspiracy to set a trap for a national publication by providing false information that led to these reports.

Having said that, I don't buy into the idea that everything in these articles is accurate. I think the truth may lie somewhere in the middle of rampant misdeeds by a program out of control and a few bad apples who were looking for short cuts to success.

Still, I think it would be foolish to dismiss what those players have said as the rants of a small group of malcontents with an ax to grind. There's just too much dirt being tossed around not to believe that some of it is true.
 
I really don’t think anyone sues SI. The PR battle is definitely in OSU's favor. What would suing SI accomplish? It will prove that some of the comments were taken out of context (Ex. Aso Pogi) and it will prove most of the quotes were legit. Just because the quotes were legit doesn't mean they are true. Here is my analysis of the stories.


1) Money: I think 90% of this is either false or exaggerated. I'm sure there were some violations, if you look hard enough, but I really would like to see some evidence. Without hard evidence I choose to believe the guys that haven’t been kicked of the team for drugs, grades or been caught in a lie.

2) Drugs: Personal responsibility! OSU's drug policies need to be reviewed, but there isn't a perfect answer. The fact that they didn't mention Prentiss Elliott reduces their credibility.

3) Cheating: Not much on here that other college students don't try every day. Also, if it was so easy to get away with doing drugs and staying eligible, then why did nearly every person interviewed get kicked of the team for one of these?

4) Sex: Players and recruits had sex with jersey chasers, I'm shocked. I was really underwhelmed by this article. OP girls had to sign a waiver stating they wouldn't do such things and were told by the head coach not do anything inappropriate with recruits. OSU pulled the offer of a committed recruit (Michael Goodson) because he tried forcing himself on an OP girl.

This story looks bad on OSU, but not nearly as bad as I was afraid it would.
 
propoke said:
I really don’t think anyone sues SI. The PR battle is definitely in OSU's favor. What would suing SI accomplish? It will prove that some of the comments were taken out of context (Ex. Aso Pogi) and it will prove most of the quotes were legit. Just because the quotes were legit doesn't mean they are true. Here is my analysis of the stories.


1) Money: I think 90% of this is either false or exaggerated. I'm sure there were some violations, if you look hard enough, but I really would like to see some evidence. Without hard evidence I choose to believe the guys that haven’t been kicked of the team for drugs, grades or been caught in a lie.

2) Drugs: Personal responsibility! OSU's drug policies need to be reviewed, but there isn't a perfect answer. The fact that they didn't mention Prentiss Elliott reduces their credibility.

3) Cheating: Not much on here that other college students don't try every day. Also, if it was so easy to get away with doing drugs and staying eligible, then why did nearly every person interviewed get kicked of the team for one of these?

4) Sex: Players and recruits had sex with jersey chasers, I'm shocked. I was really underwhelmed by this article. OP girls had to sign a waiver stating they wouldn't do such things and were told by the head coach not do anything inappropriate with recruits. OSU pulled the offer of a committed recruit (Michael Goodson) because he tried forcing himself on an OP girl.

This story looks bad on OSU, but not nearly as bad as I was afraid it would.
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The OSU people need to circle up, light your candles, and start the "We are Penn State chant". That is exactly who you sound like.
 
I've always had the impression that Les Miles would sell his soul to win a football game. None of this stuff from the Miles era is even remotely surprising to me. It looks like Gundy just continued many if not all of Miles's policies.
 
steverocks35 said:
I've always had the impression that Les Miles would sell his soul to win a football game. None of this stuff from the Miles era is even remotely surprising to me. It looks like Gundy just continued many if not all of Miles's policies.
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How about Booger??? I think he's in the same boat. We know he'd sell his soul for a dime!
 
SoonerNorm said:
When you find out SI lied about some things, it sure makes me question what else could they be lying about.
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that story doesn't remotely suggest SI lied about anything. Carter may have lied but SI didn't lie. They reported what he said.

Additionally, I saw an article today that said Bell and Carter were in a sociology class together but it was a different professor. This was from the head of the OSU sociology department.

SI has zero reason to lie. They don't care if OSU is clean or dirty. They don't need to make up stories.
 
You OSU people are insane. Most people that read that story are not looking to read anything else. A lot of people won't even finish reading the article. Outside of hardcore sports fans nobody cares about this article.

Beyond that your paranoia that OU is behind this or Thayer Evans is an OU guy is absolutely ridiculous. He didn't go to OU. One of his first jobs was writing for the OU Scout site. He moved on to bigger and better things. He has published negative stories about OU and OSU. The reason he has done that is he knows our conference and negative stories sell.

SI is not out to get OSU. Evans is not out to get OSU. OU fans are not obsessed with OSU. OU does not control or remotely influence SI.

Nobody cares about OSU other than OSU fans and alumni. OU fans make fun of OSU but they do that for fun and to get a reaction from idiots. Other than some very strange people with no lives, they really don't care about OSU.

Personally I make fun of OSU all the time on the internet. However, the reality is I went to Edmond High School. About 50% of my best friends went to OSU and graduated from OSU. I spent a bunch of time in Stillwater when I was 18-22. My brother went to OSU. I know for a fact that OSU and OU are pretty much the same thing except that OU has a much better football tradition. You guys would do yourselves a favor by giving up this victim mentality. You play into the jokes. You invite the teasing.

Rather than attack the sources, authors and OU, look at the school and demand changes. You program was dirty and it doesn't need to be. OSU is a good school. It has a good Athletic Department. Mistakes were made (even if the article is overblown). Clean it up and move on. You guys are better than this or at least should be. If you go on probation it won't be that bad.
 
WTSooner said:
It may be, but pot use in college is crazy rampant.

I don't use. Never have. I don't condone use. But I've had to change my feelings on this some over the years, b/c the percent of college football/basketball players that do use, at least on a recreational basis, is probably higher than most want to admit. It's just the nature of society today. And it goes back to HS, where I think pot use is probably as rampant as at any time in our history.
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It is rampant in high school because it is illegal. Make it legal and regulate it. Then the people with a license to sell it won't want to lose their license so they won't sell to minors. They won't want to lose their license because they are banking money legally.

Kids use weed more than beer because it is easier to get. It is easier to get because it is illegal. If you are already breaking the law you flatly don't care if the buyer is 12 or 90. You broke the law either way.

Don't expect our government to figure this out. They are far too stupid.
 
StatGeek said:
Yep
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I agree. My brother told me he would be vindicated. I reminded he was not part of the story. They are acting like children. The world is not out to get them. Some bad things happened. If they want to blame someone blame Miles.
 
DenverSooner said:
You guys would do yourselves a favor by giving up this victim mentality. You play into the jokes. You invite the teasing.

Rather than attack the sources, authors and OU, look at the school and demand changes. You program was dirty and it doesn't need to be. OSU is a good school. It has a good Athletic Department. Mistakes were made (even if the article is overblown). Clean it up and move on. You guys are better than this or at least should be. If you go on probation it won't be that bad.
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We don't have a 'like' button so I'll just say AMEN!
 
SilliSooner said:
Two stories above, two possibilities relating to the OSU expose. I suspect there's bit drawn from both scenarios when you peel back the layers.
Click to expand...

I will tell you this, there are no altered tapes. You need a motive to lie. What is the motive in this case? Thayer Evans grew up in an OSU home near Stillwater. He did not go to OU as OSU people keep saying. He went to a small college in Bartlesville. He has published negative articles about OU and many other schools because he is an investigative sports journalist. That is, he publishes negative stories about sports. The only association between OU and Thayer Evans is he worked for Brian Bishop the owner of OUInsider.

Moreover, why would Thayer Evans risk a solid career on lying about OSU? What is in it for him? I see very little upside to lying and a huge downside. Thayer is not an idiot if he has worked for the NYT and SI. There is a lot of competition for those jobs. They don't have to hire idiots.

Even ignoring all of that read the stories. Read the quotes. It all makes sense to me with the exception of the cash payments in the locker room. That seems to bold. The FCA guy admits players were paid for speaking and working on his ranch. OSU admits players were paid to work on the stadium job. The written drug policy of OSU allows for the "Weed Circle" (but they don't call it that). The counselor acknowledges that the "Weed Circle" exists. Both players and former members of Orange Pride say some girls were sleeping with recruits. Miles says it was one of those deals where you didn't want to know.

People that is the smoking gun evidence. OSU didn't want to know any of this. That is the very point of the story. OSU's coaches and Athletic Department didn't want to know. If you discover something no matter what don't tell someone that matters. Don't tell Miles or Holder because then the University has to deal with it.

Perhaps the story is sensationalized by the former players or SI to some degree but that does not make it all a bunch of lies.
 
DenverSooner said:
that story doesn't remotely suggest SI lied about anything. Carter may have lied but SI didn't lie. They reported what he said.

Additionally, I saw an article today that said Bell and Carter were in a sociology class together but it was a different professor. This was from the head of the OSU sociology department.

SI has zero reason to lie. They don't care if OSU is clean or dirty. They don't need to make up stories.
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You have to admit that the articles have plenty of "mistakes". I think most will agree that there was some truth to the articles. But, were the claims of misconduct significantly exaggerated? I have no doubt. SI could have checked out some of the quotes but either chose not to because they were too lazy or they did check them out but chose not to publish the correct version knowing the story had more sensationalism as written.

I think two things are true. One, OSU had, or may still have, some things happen that should not have happened. Second, the SI article left a lot to be desired from a journalistic standpoint.
 
DenverSooner said:
I will tell you this, there are no altered tapes. You need a motive to lie. What is the motive in this case? Thayer Evans grew up in an OSU home near Stillwater. He did not go to OU as OSU people keep saying. He went to a small college in Bartlesville. He has published negative articles about OU and many other schools because he is an investigative sports journalist. That is, he publishes negative stories about sports. The only association between OU and Thayer Evans is he worked for Brian Bishop the owner of OUInsider.

Moreover, why would Thayer Evans risk a solid career on lying about OSU? What is in it for him? I see very little upside to lying and a huge downside. Thayer is not an idiot if he has worked for the NYT and SI. There is a lot of competition for those jobs. They don't have to hire idiots.

Even ignoring all of that read the stories. Read the quotes. It all makes sense to me with the exception of the cash payments in the locker room. That seems to bold. The FCA guy admits players were paid for speaking and working on his ranch. OSU admits players were paid to work on the stadium job. The written drug policy of OSU allows for the "Weed Circle" (but they don't call it that). The counselor acknowledges that the "Weed Circle" exists. Both players and former members of Orange Pride say some girls were sleeping with recruits. Miles says it was one of those deals where you didn't want to know.

People that is the smoking gun evidence. OSU didn't want to know any of this. That is the very point of the story. OSU's coaches and Athletic Department didn't want to know. If you discover something no matter what don't tell someone that matters. Don't tell Miles or Holder because then the University has to deal with it.

Perhaps the story is sensationalized by the former players or SI to some degree but that does not make it all a bunch of lies.
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You give journalists a lot more credit than I do. First, look at the evening news. Various networks tell stories they want told (and conveniently leave out other stories) and they tell the stories they want to report the way they want them reported which best promotes their political leanings.

There is a huge benefit for SI to tell sensational stories (whether completely true or not) just as there is for networks to report the stories they tell in the manner in which they tell them. In my opinion, many journalists are more interested in telling a story that sells than they are in telling the correct story.

Edit to add: Note to everyone, please do not try to turn what I said into a political discussion. I just used evening news as an example of one place we see poor journalism every day.
 
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