OU coaches in overtime games

[KBaden145]

Sampson was a great coach but a lot of those close games were because we had scoring droughts of 8-10 minutes which allowed the other team to either get back in the game or stay in the game. Defensively and hustle, I agree Sampson was as good a coach as OU will ever have, but Kruger is light years better offensively than Kelvin.

Offense is all about getting open looks. Sampson's offenses got open looks and so does Kruger's. too early to say this.

Kruger and Sampson are very comparable as head coaches. Sampson was a master on game days and Krugers, even with last nights debacle, is very capable. Lon is a better program builder and I would say they are fairly equal as recruiters. I consider Sampson a better coach overall but only by degrees.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Actually it was @OSU, @Texas and @A&M. My only point is I would expect the home team to win the vast majority of OT games, especially if they are the team that mounted the comeback to take it to OT or it was simply a close game from start to finish.

I don't recall Capel's OT games but I wasn't trying to insult Capel. I don't need to insult Capel. Anyone that followed OU basketball knows Capel is the worst coach at OU since prior to and including Dave Bliss. Joe C really F'd that up when he hired Capel. But the good news is Jeff Capel is a Jay Z fan so hes got that going for him.

My bad. Soonerstats.com isn't updated with results from all the games this season, so I was trying to remember the 3rd OT game and for some reason I thought it was SFA. I had completely wiped the OSU game from my memory, for obvious reasons.:ez-laugh:

 

[DenverSooner]

If OU wins at TCU they will have gone 4-5 on the road with two OT losses. That is actually playing pretty good road basketball. It needs to improve to compete for the conference title but it is solid.

 

[Big Old Booger]

close games are close games, saying that he had alot of close games because of scoring droughts is straight up pulling it out of your ass.
Even if that were the case win is a win, and obviously he pulled it out....which is more then I can say for us last night

Look, I'm as big of a Sampson fan as anyone on this message board. I was not one who wanted him fired or cheered when he took the Indiana job after the end of that 2006 season and the probation. It's funny because most of the big Capel fans were anti-Sampson (brgch, capelfan52, Bigtime, etc.). I wasn't one of them and thought they were morons for wanting to get rid of Sampson.

However, his offense was quite a bit less than spectacular. Too many games with long scoring droughts and most of the time those games ended up being tight games. The game last night reminded me of the 2003 Big 12 championship game when we had a 20 point lead and ended up winning 49-47. Had that game been in Kansas City or Columbia, it probably ends with the exact same ending as last nigh, a loss. However, we won and that's the difference.

I've watched Kruger since he coached at KSU and his teams have always scored a lot of points. I think by the time he is done, he will be remembered as a better offensive coach than Sampson. I think both are great coaches and overall, Sampson is probably better but Kruger is a better recruiter, IMO.

 

[Big Old Booger]

That might be the perception, but I don't think it's the reality.

You also didn't think the choice to hire LK as our basketball coach was a good decision. How has that turned out?

 

[WTSooner]

I've watched Kruger since he coached at KSU and his teams have always scored a lot of points.

Which doesn't mean much, really.

Lon Kruger's national rank in offensive efficiency the last 9 years (including this year):
36
127
60
51
109
59
35
128
76

Kelvin's last few years, including IU:
23
18
25
17
114
25

Part of that 23 season with IU Kelvin wasn't there all year, but I think he was there most of the year, right? So basically in Kelvin's last 6 seasons of coaching college basketball, 5 of those 6 offenses finished the season ranked 10 spots better than ANY offense Kruger has had over the last 9 seasons.

You can complain about scoring droughts and low scores all you want, but the stats don't lie on this one. Everybody seems to remember the Big 12 Championship game against Mizzou, and want to remember that and only that performance. Kelvin's offenses caught WAY more grief than they should have. The low averages were due to pace and great defense. Not inefficient offense. I'd have thought OU fans would stop complaining about scoring droughts. What we've experienced under Capel and LK has been just as bad at times. We've had several scoring droughts this year. IT HAPPENS. LK may leave OU with offenses that averaged more points. But I doubt he leaves OU with a string of more efficient offenses.

 

[WTSooner]

You also didn't think the choice to hire LK as our basketball coach was a good decision. How has that turned out?

That is 100% not true.

He wasn't on my radar, but once his name came out, I thought he'd be a good fit. Don't say stuff that isn't true.

 

[KBaden145]

I think regardless of people's opinions of each, I think we're headed to some of the same places, same levels Sampson took us to. Different styles, very similar results.

 

[WTSooner]

I think regardless of people's opinions of each, I think we're headed to some of the same places, same levels Sampson took us to. Different styles, very similar results.

And I'd absolutely agree with that. We aren't there yet. Not on defense especially. We've fallen apart defensively late in this season. But we're on that path. Can LK get us back into the top 2-4 in the conference consistently? I certainly hope so.

 

[garyeb2]

Wait wait wait. Firstly, Kelvin said himself that he really didn't know alot about the X's and O's of basketball until he got to the pros. Kruger had that 5 yrs. in pro ball and there is no doubt that Kruger is a better coach in that reguard than Kelvin when he was here. But, Kelvin got great results at OU and Kruger may not match that. Mayby with different skills, they are both good college coaches.

Kelvin came into a good situation and stayed for over a decade. Kruger is a lifetime short termer that fixes broken programs. The stats over any amount of time comparing the two don't reveal anything. Two completely different sets of circumstances.

 

[WTSooner]

So Kelvin couldn't teach offense as good, but he got better results. Guess he was just really lucky over a pretty long period of seasons?

And Kelvin didn't really come into a good situation either. I won't say it was worse than what LK inherited, but certainly comparable. OU lost 13 games the year before Kelvin got here. OU's Big 8 record was 13-15 the two seasons before Kelvin got here. And we hadn't been Dancing in 2 years.

Also keep in mind that Kelvin was still a young coach, still learning, and didn't have any recruiting ties to this area. LK is coming in as an experienced coach that both played and coached in the Big 8 before, and a guy with ties to the area. I also wouldn't make a big deal about Kruger bouncing around. Most of those "bounces" were to better opportunities. However, he was at UNLV for 7 years. That is a fairly long time by today's standards.

 

[Big Old Booger]

That is 100% not true.

He wasn't on my radar, but once his name came out, I thought he'd be a good fit. Don't say stuff that isn't true.

Not really. But I do realize we are running out of options. I just don't think he has a high ceiling as a coach at OU

http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21299&highlight=rumor+kruger&page=3

 

[Big Old Booger]

Which doesn't mean much, really.

Lon Kruger's national rank in offensive efficiency the last 9 years (including this year):
36
127
60
51
109
59
35
128
76

Kelvin's last few years, including IU:
23
18
25
17
114
25

Part of that 23 season with IU Kelvin wasn't there all year, but I think he was there most of the year, right? So basically in Kelvin's last 6 seasons of coaching college basketball, 5 of those 6 offenses finished the season ranked 10 spots better than ANY offense Kruger has had over the last 9 seasons.

You can complain about scoring droughts and low scores all you want, but the stats don't lie on this one. Everybody seems to remember the Big 12 Championship game against Mizzou, and want to remember that and only that performance. Kelvin's offenses caught WAY more grief than they should have. The low averages were due to pace and great defense. Not inefficient offense. I'd have thought OU fans would stop complaining about scoring droughts. What we've experienced under Capel and LK has been just as bad at times. We've had several scoring droughts this year. IT HAPPENS. LK may leave OU with offenses that averaged more points. But I doubt he leaves OU with a string of more efficient offenses.

The difference though is LK is not playing with his players. The Mizzou game, the Mississippi State game, the Duke game, etc., were all with players Kelvin recruited. The dude was a great coach, but offense was not his forte at OU. We had scoring droughts in almost every game. Long ones and we won anyway. Is your memory really that short that you can't acknowledge something that everyone complained about at the time?

 

[Big Old Booger]

So Kelvin couldn't teach offense as good, but he got better results. Guess he was just really lucky over a pretty long period of seasons?

And Kelvin didn't really come into a good situation either. I won't say it was worse than what LK inherited, but certainly comparable. OU lost 13 games the year before Kelvin got here. OU's Big 8 record was 13-15 the two seasons before Kelvin got here. And we hadn't been Dancing in 2 years.

Also keep in mind that Kelvin was still a young coach, still learning, and didn't have any recruiting ties to this area. LK is coming in as an experienced coach that both played and coached in the Big 8 before, and a guy with ties to the area. I also wouldn't make a big deal about Kruger bouncing around. Most of those "bounces" were to better opportunities. However, he was at UNLV for 7 years. That is a fairly long time by today's standards.

Kelvin was a great coach, repeat great coach. However, the situation he inherited was nowhere close to what LK inherited. Sampson inherited the player who was the Big 12 POY as well as some other good players and recruited a JUCO to go with it. Both of Tubbs last 2 seasons we advanced to the NIT. The 2 years before LK arrived we had losing seasons, and we were on probation. No probation when Kelvin took over.

 

[WTSooner]

http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21299&highlight=rumor+kruger&page=3

I'm okay with this. I don't think he'll get to the level that Billy or Kelvin had us at during their glory years, but I think he can get us to the Dance consistently, and at this point, that is all I'm asking.

http://ouhoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=292519&postcount=7

From the thread announcing he was hired.

Your first quote was more than a month before that, when we were still throwing out some bigger, higher ceiling names.

:clap

 

[WTSooner]

We had scoring droughts in almost every game. Long ones and we won anyway. Is your memory really that short that you can't acknowledge something that everyone complained about at the time?

The stats tell a different story. A COMPLETELY different story. Unless you can show me how a pretty solid stat is being misleading, than you are just sticking to a factually incorrect statement/story that you've convinced yourself is true.

LK had his own players at UNLV and still wasn't running as efficient of offenses as Kelvin was at OU and IU.

 

[Big Old Booger]

The stats tell a different story. A COMPLETELY different story. Unless you can show me how a pretty solid stat is being misleading, than you are just sticking to a factually incorrect statement/story that you've convinced yourself is true.

LK had his own players at UNLV and still wasn't running as efficient of offenses as Kelvin was at OU and IU.

Stats are for losers. I don't need stats and I've not convinced myself of anything. Kelvin's teams were known for long scoring droughts. Somehow, you have pushed it from your memory, but it's true. It happened. Doesn't mean he isn't a great coach, but it happened.

 

[Big Old Booger]

http://ouhoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=292519&postcount=7

From the thread announcing he was hired.

Your first quote was more than a month before that, when we were still throwing out some bigger, higher ceiling names.

:clap

Bigger higher ceiling names like BCG or Buzz? I have news for you...those aren't higher ceiling names.

:clap

 

[StatGeek]

Hey WT, do you understand the bias that is built into the KenPom efficiency rankings you cite so often? Not picking at you (I agree that Sampson's offensive coaching is portrayed unfairly) I'm just curious if you understand the weaknesses of the formula.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Sampson is respected as a hard-nosed, defense and rebounding-oriented coach and a tireless recruiter. He's a former president of the National Association of Basketball Coaches. He also led USA Basketball to the gold medal in Halifax, Nova Scotia in the U-21 championships in the summer of 2005.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2387372

Good for Sampson. I never saw him as an NBA coach, but heck, I wasn’t an NBA expert. Not much of one today. Maybe Sampson is the perfect NBA coach; offense sort of takes care of itself in the league. Pick’n roll. Drive and kick. Pass and cut. It’s not complicated.

Cleveland, for instance. Has there ever been a more prototype Sampson team than the Cavs without LeBron James? Hard-nosed. Chip-on-their-shoulder. Defensive-minded. Sampson would be a perfect fit to take Cleveland into its post-LeBron era. The Cavs wouldn’t win like they’ve been winning, but they wouldn’t be a pushover.

And even if LeBron re-signed with Cleveland, Sampson would be a good fit. LeBron doesn’t need an offensive coach. Six-foot-8 forwards who run the offense and lead the team in rebounding and the league in scoring don’t need a lot of offensive direction from the bench. They need a coach who convinces everyone to play their butt off.

http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2010/05/28/sampson-to-clippers-dont-bet-on-it/

The Sooners would not score again for over five minutes, but NC-Charlotte was in the midst of its lengthy drought. During Oklahoma's scoreless period, the 49ers managed just three free throws, which were all wiped away when Martin, who drilled a long 3-pointer from the right wing to make it 24-8 with 7:02 left before halftime.

Demerit: That's great, but Sampson must be in charge of coaching defense with those international teams, not offense. His Sooners teams often have been painful to watch. They ranked 158th in scoring offense this year, 51 spots behind the Hoosiers. (Sampson's style of slogball should at least fit in with the stolid Big Ten.)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2387851

I can find more if I need to but I think this proves my point.

:clap