Ou @ ksu

[TheMont]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, it is so odd to me that we have never ONCE tried playing ViVi and KayKay together. I know I KNOW --- Sherri knows way more than all of us, but with all of the constant/strange lineups we've played with, how have we not tried that at ALL? We can't be much worse than we currently are defensively and those 2 together would be pretty damn hard to defend.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Hield, Cousins Spangler and the rest of the men's team get credit for the extra work they put in. They totally deserve it and you can see the results on the court. If the women players aren't spending extra time in the gym to make themselves better that's on them. In case they doubt that work could pay off, all they have to do is watch the men's team this year to see what improvement can be made. Granted that they might not have the motivation of perhaps making millions in the NBA like some of the men do but if they don't have the drive to improve their individual skill set, perhaps they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Hadn't heard that about Vivi.

That was disappointing but explains the rather dramatic decrease in shooting ability of so many other players over the season. Only perfect practice makes perfect. Lots of perfect practice.

Somewhere on here Sherri talked about the coaches needing to cause the players to be more committed to staying focused. That will never work. Self discipline and commitment come from within. Discipline is one of the things this team lacks. But that is mostly on the players.

 

[gosooner2]

Hield, Cousins Spangler and the rest of the men's team get credit for the extra work they put in. They totally deserve it and you can see the results on the court. If the women players aren't spending extra time in the gym to make themselves better that's on them. In case they doubt that work could pay off, all they have to do is watch the men's team this year to see what improvement can be made. Granted that they might not have the motivation of perhaps making millions in the NBA like some of the men do but if they don't have the drive to improve their individual skill set, perhaps they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This is so true! You have to wonder if respect and trust of the coach perhaps motivates this? It would be interesting to know if many UConn players do this.

 

[MsProudSooner]

This is so true! You have to wonder if respect and trust of the coach perhaps motivates this? It would be interesting to know if many UConn players do this.

The phrase, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." comes to mind. The coach, the athletic department and the university have provided a practice facility that is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. After that, it's up to the individual.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, it is so odd to me that we have never ONCE tried playing ViVi and KayKay together. I know I KNOW --- Sherri knows way more than all of us, but with all of the constant/strange lineups we've played with, how have we not tried that at ALL? We can't be much worse than we currently are defensively and those 2 together would be pretty damn hard to defend.

We do put Treece in with KK or ViVi at times so you do wonder why not use them together sometime. Sherri is probably not confident about designing an offensive formation to make that work. She really loves the guard oriented three point style offense.

But even the effort you put on opponents having to prepare for an additional formation is advantageous.

 

[TheMont]

Sherri is probably not confident about designing an offensive formation to make that work. She really loves the guard oriented three point style offense.

It does seem that way, but I'm not sure why! She ran a double post offense for a long time in the past -- Courtney with Ashley, Griffin with McFarland, etc etc. I think ideally she wants a stretch 4 (Hill, Rush, Thompson, Treece) who can step out and hit the 3, which isn't in KK or ViVi's skill set but still!

It's just very puzzling that we're sticking to such a 3-point oriented offense when we are shooting abysmally from 3. The KK/ViVi combo is our biggest offensive asset and we aren't exploiting it.

 

[SoonerNorm]

It does seem that way, but I'm not sure why! She ran a double post offense for a long time in the past -- Courtney with Ashley, Griffin with McFarland, etc etc. I think ideally she wants a stretch 4 (Hill, Rush, Thompson, Treece) who can step out and hit the 3, which isn't in KK or ViVi's skill set but still!

It's just very puzzling that we're sticking to such a 3-point oriented offense when we are shooting abysmally from 3. The KK/ViVi combo is our biggest offensive asset and we aren't exploiting it.

I think Sherri is going to be forced to do something different. Right now, when Maddie and Peyton shoot, it's a virtual turnover.

 

[sybarite]

Several different issues, here. I thought Sherri had mentioned that Peyton and Maddie were gym rats. Has that stopped?

Vivi and Kay Kay would tend to clog things for each other. One needs to be a face up and more mobile player. Treece, with the exception of one game, hasn't shown that she is ready for anything yet. She is a mistake waiting to happen: pass, shooting off balance shots, defensive lapses.

Has anyone noticed this pattern. At one time, after the BYU game, we tended to try to have Maddie start the offensive from outside, looking for driving lanes. Then, we kind of gave up on that and began to work around the perimeter. Then, we started putting Maddie at the high post. But, we weren't consistent at getting her the ball there. When we did, she could hit the corners or make entry passes pretty effectively. We just couldn't get it to her. Then, we switched to put Maddie on the left baseline about fifteen feet out. Again, this appeared to be an attempt to make the post feed more effective. But, we couldn't feed Maddie to start the operation. We seem to be trying different things just to feed the post without turning it over.

With Gioya hitting the fifteen-foot jumpers, this might work if Peyton were hitting anything right now. Maddie is getting a lot of feeds to the right place, but we aren't hitting the shots. But, it seems that we keep trying to find a way to utilize Maddie's passing abilities.

 

[trusooner]

You can love a certain style or certain system but you have to have the players to fit that system. You can't force players to fit into a system. Either you get the players or you change the system that best fits the kids you have. One of our biggest weaknesses other than TT is we DO NOT move our feet on defense. Our defensive fundamentals are horrid at times. I agree that Peyton and Gabbi need to sit. Gabbi tries to do more than she's capable and Peyton just doesn't have any confidence. What I saw last night was KK playing like she did as a freshman, couldn't hit a point blank shot and dumb fouls. We have no energy and can't run the floor. I agree conditioning is a huge issue.

 

[Sooners4Life0101]

I think Sherri is going to be forced to do something different. Right now, when Maddie and Peyton shoot, it's a virtual turnover.

I know your not calling out Maddies effort Norm....

She had 10 great passes that lead to buckets last game and is probably playing better Defense than anyone. I think Peyton was flustered by Sherri starting Derica, she was POW 2 weeks ago? I think you should start her and let her work out of it. Then again I don't care who plays 2, but Maddie should be playing 35 mins and not a minute less.

Along w. TT. Gioya. and VV. whoever wants to step up at 2 do so at any time.

 

[Sooners4Life0101]

Several different issues, here. I thought Sherri had mentioned that Peyton and Maddie were gym rats. Has that stopped?

Vivi and Kay Kay would tend to clog things for each other. One needs to be a face up and more mobile player. Treece, with the exception of one game, hasn't shown that she is ready for anything yet. She is a mistake waiting to happen: pass, shooting off balance shots, defensive lapses.

Has anyone noticed this pattern. At one time, after the BYU game, we tended to try to have Maddie start the offensive from outside, looking for driving lanes. Then, we kind of gave up on that and began to work around the perimeter. Then, we started putting Maddie at the high post. But, we weren't consistent at getting her the ball there. When we did, she could hit the corners or make entry passes pretty effectively. We just couldn't get it to her. Then, we switched to put Maddie on the left baseline about fifteen feet out. Again, this appeared to be an attempt to make the post feed more effective. But, we couldn't feed Maddie to start the operation. We seem to be trying different things just to feed the post without turning it over.

With Gioya hitting the fifteen-foot jumpers, this might work if Peyton were hitting anything right now. Maddie is getting a lot of feeds to the right place, but we aren't hitting the shots. But, it seems that we keep trying to find a way to utilize Maddie's passing abilities.

Yeah, theres literally nobody that can even pass the ball to Maddie that has been playing from what I can tell.

Maddie needs to start making some shots, no question. They don't guard her tight enough to get to the rim. I think we have tried about everything this season to get some ppl going- we need to knock shots down. But as I've been saying, we have the players to quit relying on that in the first place- Should be seeing a lot more TT/VV and hanging our hat on the defensive end. We finally have the players that can apply enough pressure to win on Defense- Let em play I say.

 

[SoonerNorm]

You can love a certain style or certain system but you have to have the players to fit that system. You can't force players to fit into a system. Either you get the players or you change the system that best fits the kids you have. One of our biggest weaknesses other than TT is we DO NOT move our feet on defense. Our defensive fundamentals are horrid at times. I agree that Peyton and Gabbi need to sit. Gabbi tries to do more than she's capable and Peyton just doesn't have any confidence. What I saw last night was KK playing like she did as a freshman, couldn't hit a point blank shot and dumb fouls. We have no energy and can't run the floor. I agree conditioning is a huge issue.

Great points!

 

[womenssports]

It does seem that way, but I'm not sure why! She ran a double post offense for a long time in the past -- Courtney with Ashley, Griffin with McFarland, etc etc. I think ideally she wants a stretch 4 (Hill, Rush, Thompson, Treece) who can step out and hit the 3, which isn't in KK or ViVi's skill set but still!

It's just very puzzling that we're sticking to such a 3-point oriented offense when we are shooting abysmally from 3. The KK/ViVi combo is our biggest offensive asset and we aren't exploiting it.

I always thought of Ashley of more of a four. McFarland could shoot the three.
Treece can hit the three and I see you consider her a stretch 4. I would consider McFarland a stretch 4. Caton Hill shot the three and Leah Rush shot it all, but do you consider these two as being stretch 4's or just fours? I probably do not know the correct definition for a stretch 4 or how you are using it.

I am just trying to understand what you are saying about the players. And I do agree with you about KK/VIVI. I have thought that from the beginning and I know many of you have spoken about it in threads. I am wondering if
they are not in sufficient shape to play too many minutes and she needs at least one of them on the floor. KK does seem to be running the floor a little better this year but I don't know how gassed she does or does not get. Vivi
has seemed to me to be having problems with her right knee the whole season. I though she ran better last year when she was first coming off her injury. It looks like she is going to need another surgery or a great deal of really specific rehab after the season.

Still, I think I would give it a shot playing them both together. Other players would have to get up and down the court in their place, especially Vivi's. I doubt that it could be done for long periods of time but five minutes? maybe.

The other thing is play TT. She is our best defensive player. She gets rebounds, steals, ties the ball up. People complain because she goes to the basket and gets blocked but she is improving on that, PLUS I believe Sherri could correct that. TT like VIVI seems to be one of those players who would most quickly correct mistakes if worked on with the coach. (just speculation, but what I see from watching, listening to interviews, etc.)

 

[Sooners4Life0101]

It does seem that way, but I'm not sure why! She ran a double post offense for a long time in the past -- Courtney with Ashley, Griffin with McFarland, etc etc. I think ideally she wants a stretch 4 (Hill, Rush, Thompson, Treece) who can step out and hit the 3, which isn't in KK or ViVi's skill set but still!

It's just very puzzling that we're sticking to such a 3-point oriented offense when we are shooting abysmally from 3. The KK/ViVi combo is our biggest offensive asset and we aren't exploiting it.

Mont... Two 5's in zone would be doing to them a favor- Lewis could guard them both while the whole team collapses- just not a plausible argument in relation to the situation...

 

[womenssports]

Yeah, theres literally nobody that can even pass the ball to Maddie that has been playing from what I can tell.

Maddie needs to start making some shots, no question. They don't guard her tight enough to get to the rim. I think we have tried about everything this season to get some ppl going- we need to knock shots down. But as I've been saying, we have the players to quit relying on that in the first place- Should be seeing a lot more TT/VV and hanging our hat on the defensive end. We finally have the players that can apply enough pressure to win on Defense- Let em play I say.

I believe there are players who can get her the ball but there hasn't been the openings to do so. Gioya is passing really well this year but you have to have the ball and Maddie be open. There is also the question of height. For some players, it would probably be risky because they don't have a good look at the floor.

Similar topic is someone posted in another thread and I paraphrase: "Can't anyone throw the ball in but Maddie?" Again, I know that Gioya can. TT is probably limited by her height. Maddie has been touted on this board as a ball-handler and also a point guard. That would be the person you would want throwing it in AND Maddie is taller than the others which is definitely an advantage for getting the ball in. Finally, I am not sure why Vivi and KK and Treece aren't used, especially the first two as they are on the floor more and getting experience. They are both getting some assists. I don't know. Maybe it is just a pressure situation and Sherri feels more comfortable with Maddie but I have yet to see Gioya make a turnover when throwing the ball in. I imagine one thing is you also have to consider who you want getting the ball on an out-of-bounds play.

And I do see the good things that Maddie does. With this group right now, it is usually better with Maddie on the floor even when she has no stats. I know many of you are big on the stats but people affect a game without showing any stats. I hate that Maddie had her injuries because it seemed she had the potential to be great. Of course, the season isn't over and she has next year. (I don't believe for a minute that she will go for a 6th season but I know some of you do. But then, I don't know where she is in her studies, what her future plans are and all of these things would impact that.)

 

[Sooners4Life0101]

I believe there are players who can get her the ball but there hasn't been the openings to do so. Gioya is passing really well this year but you have to have the ball and Maddie be open. There is also the question of height. For some players, it would probably be risky because they don't have a good look at the floor.

Similar topic is someone posted in another thread and I paraphrase: "Can't anyone throw the ball in but Maddie?" Again, I know that Gioya can. TT is probably limited by her height. Maddie has been touted on this board as a ball-handler and also a point guard. That would be the person you would want throwing it in AND Maddie is taller than the others which is definitely an advantage for getting the ball in. Finally, I am not sure why Vivi and KK and Treece aren't used, especially the first two as they are on the floor more and getting experience. They are both getting some assists. I don't know. Maybe it is just a pressure situation and Sherri feels more comfortable with Maddie but I have yet to see Gioya make a turnover when throwing the ball in. I imagine one thing is you also have to consider who you want getting the ball on an out-of-bounds play.

And I do see the good things that Maddie does. With this group right now, it is usually better with Maddie on the floor even when she has no stats. I know many of you are big on the stats but people affect a game without showing any stats. I hate that Maddie had her injuries because it seemed she had the potential to be great. Of course, the season isn't over and she has next year. (I don't believe for a minute that she will go for a 6th season but I know some of you do. But then, I don't know where she is in her studies, what her future plans are and all of these things would impact that.)

From what i have heard is she getting her masters and staying for a 6th.

You have to stretch the floor in todays game. Think about when KK or Vivi actually catch the ball from the free throw line extended, nobody even comes out on them. That is not a problem letting one player do that, but when there is two it really shuts down the penetration lanes. You really need a player that can hit a 15 footer or the lanes will be shut down, and you'll be strictly a jump shooting team. And thats no recipe for success.

I know exactly why Maddie throws the ball in, she's the best passer. Its that simple and she should be throwing it in. The problem is nobody is looking to get her the ball at the high post- and that is one of the ways you beat a zone. Derica will shoot 10 threes before she throws it there once. Gabbi can't hit her. TT and Gioya can probably do it- but Gioya is looking to score though (as she should) and TT doesn't play enough.

KK and Vivi are better passers- they are still among the worst passers on the team.

Again here. Maddie gives up nothing of defense. She lead us in rebounding last game. There is no reason to move another player in there. Im not opposed to a couple times a year putting KK and Vivi in at the same time and getting one of them a potential mismatch, but that can't work over the course of a game. Too weak condition, Too many fouls, and zero space for anyone else to operate, also would kill our transition game. It's not basketball today.

Not to mention. This team played zone. This shouldn't be a topic after we lose to a zone, its not even logical to play them both. You need passing. getting the ball in middle by attacking, or passing. and transition. All things neither offer us. Its not a plausible argument in this thread.

We did give up 90 pts to an extremely average team again however.. The problem was on the defensive end.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

The phrase, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." comes to mind. The coach, the athletic department and the university have provided a practice facility that is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. After that, it's up to the individual.

If that's what is happening, then it is completely Sherri's fault because she's recruited those type of players.

 

[Sooners4Life0101]

- Derica will shoot 10 30 foot* threes before she throws it there once.- I should say.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

I obviously feel a bit different than several of you about Derica. It is Ok if she shoots some threes - because unlike everyone else she actually hits some of them.

Plus she really moves around quite a bit. the problem is we have guards who do not like to pass the ball. That is one reason all our opponents have figured out that the zone really stifles us.

Last night if not for Derica's shooting we would have been beaten by 25 instead of 15.