OU, OSU, UT, TT, CU and A&M to the Pac 10?

[stoops4pres]

Or is it all simply a function of where the population centers and TV markets are?

I don't think it is. If that were the case, the SEC wouldn't have a much more appealing TV package than the Big 12; the disparity regarding population and TV markets doesn't really correlate with the TV packages both conferences have. The SEC's populations and markets don't overpower the Big 12, but the TV packages the SEC has certainly does.

Not all of it, but a lot of the blame falls on the front office for the lack of leadership and foresight, 2 things the SEC has had. There's no excuse to have such terrible TV contracts when the SEC is flourishing.

 

[stoops4pres]

Truthfully, I think this ALL started when the B12 moved to Dallas. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

What makes you think it started with Dallas? Not sure I agree, but if you explain then I might.

 

[Sawyer]

Also worth noting, the Big 12 had an opportunity to start its own network a few years ago along the lines of the Big 10 Network and what the Pac 10+ likely will have. Instead, we got what we have now, which is awful.

Regarding ku's AD's salary, I believe it's in the neighborhood of $4,000,000 and includes a lot of bonuses that all happened to hit at the same time. I don't know what he made in other years, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't quite that high... and that's an absurd salary for someone overseeing the mess they have right now (FBI, blackmail, etc).

 

[Cheno]

Regarding ku's AD's salary, I believe it's in the neighborhood of $4,000,000 and includes a lot of bonuses that all happened to hit at the same time. I don't know what he made in other years, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't quite that high... and that's an absurd salary for someone overseeing the mess they have right now (FBI, blackmail, etc).

The ticket scandal started and the majority of the money made ('02 & '03) were before Lew Perkins set foot on campus. Now he's of course got to take some blame, and he has, but the majority was not done on his watch and the thieves behind it were hired by the previous administration, the horrendous Al Bohl.
Personally, I like what Lew has done from a standpoint of raising money and increasing the facilities to a phenomenal level. I also like the hire of Turner Gill. Time will tell if he survives though.

 

[Cheno]

Paul Finebaum on OTL today...
Moderator: "Paul, what would SEC folks say about kansas?
Paul: "They would laugh. With all due respect to my follow panelists... kansas doesn't matter."

Funny you left out what Andy Katz said around that. :woot

I don't want KU in the SEC cuz they'd have the same problem they do now of being in a football conference with not much competition in hoops (although playing Kentucky every year would be off the hook) but it would actually be smart for the SEC to bring in KU, KSU & Baylor if the other 6 go to the Pac-10.
The SEC is already maximizing their football revenue. It can't get any better. They are the best football conference. They have lots of potential growth on the basketball side and KU, KSU & Baylor would help strengthen basketball a lot. If they brought in KU, KSU & Baylor then I'd be okay with that because it would make for a great hoops conference as well.

 

[stoops4pres]

Funny you left out what Andy Katz said around that. :woot

I don't want KU in the SEC cuz they'd have the same problem they do now of being in a football conference with not much competition in hoops (although playing Kentucky every year would be off the hook) but it would actually be smart for the SEC to bring in KU, KSU & Baylor if the other 6 go to the Pac-10.
The SEC is already maximizing their football revenue. It can't get any better. They are the best football conference. They have lots of potential growth on the basketball side and KU, KSU & Baylor would help strengthen basketball a lot. If they brought in KU, KSU & Baylor then I'd be okay with that because it would make for a great hoops conference as well.

I think you would see the SEC inquire Miami and the schools in North Carolina (UNC, NC State, possibly Duke) before they inquire KU and especially KState. Not saying they would leave the ACC, but I think they would look into them before KU/KSU.

 

[Sawyer]

I have no idea what Katz said. I saw the quote elsewhere, not on the show myself.

Regardless... one irrelevant columnist (Nebraska print journalist) vs. another (Alabama radio host). What Katz did or didn't say has nothing to do with it, unless you want to throw in all the pro-Mizzou comments that have been made throughout the process.

 

[bocabull]

I find it amazing this sawyer person is so deluded he thinks that Missouri is more attractive than Nebraska or Kansas to any conference.

There is a reason Missouri makes less money in the Big XII than Kansas, Nebraska, OKlahoma, Texas, etc. The Big XII pays based on the revenue you bring in and nobody gives a flip about Missouri in any sport.

There are rumblings that A&M really wants to be in the SEC to get out from under Texas shadow. I would love to see Kansas in the Pac-16 instead of A&M.

How about Kansas-UCLA and Kansas-Arizona in basketball every year?

 

[Cheno]

I think you would see the SEC inquire Miami and the schools in North Carolina (UNC, NC State, possibly Duke) before they inquire KU and especially KState. Not saying they would leave the ACC, but I think they would look into them before KU/KSU.

I can see inquiring about Miami but UNC & Duke aren't leaving the ACC. They aren't leaving a basketball conference with a huge TV deal for a football conference. And if KU isn't a fit because of football why would Duke even be interesting to them? Regardless, Duke and UNC aren't going anywhere.
I'd love to see KU go to the ACC. Wow, now that would be AWESOME!

Regardless... one irrelevant columnist (Nebraska print journalist) vs. another (Alabama radio host). What Katz did or didn't say has nothing to do with it, unless you want to throw in all the pro-Mizzou comments that have been made throughout the process.

It wasn't a Nebraska print journalist it was an Oklahoma print journalist. Unbiased telling it how it is.

I find it amazing this sawyer person is so deluded he thinks that Missouri is more attractive than Nebraska or Kansas to any conference.
There is a reason Missouri makes less money in the Big XII than Kansas, Nebraska, OKlahoma, Texas, etc. The Big XII pays based on the revenue you bring in and nobody gives a flip about Missouri in any sport.

Yeah, I agree. Missouri brings nothing but mediocrity as far as on the field/court. What intrigues conferences is having a way into the KC & St. Louis markets. That is what a conference would like about Mizzou. Plus it's bring in a team that the other schools aren't threatened by in any sport.

There are rumblings that A&M really wants to be in the SEC to get out from under Texas shadow. I would love to see Kansas in the Pac-16 instead of A&M. How about Kansas-UCLA and Kansas-Arizona in basketball every year?

Personally, I'd hate to see KU in the Pac-10. To me the Pac-10 sucks. All them latenight west coast games that nobody cares about. I mean how often do you really see UCLA and Arizona in primetime? The Pac-10 or 16 or whatever would suck royally.

 

[campbest]

Is all of this Weiberg's fault? Everyone moaned and groaned about what a bad commissioner he was for the Big XII. Bad TV packages and he wouldn't stand up for the teams in his conference. Or is it all simply a function of where the population centers and TV markets are?

Listening to the Animal while driving home and they said that the KU AD is the highest paid AD in the country. He has to be squirming in his seat these days between the ticket office scandal and now KU maybe left out in the cold.

He makes more than Foley?

 

[stoops4pres]

I can see inquiring about Miami but UNC & Duke aren't leaving the ACC. They aren't leaving a basketball conference with a huge TV deal for a football conference. And if KU isn't a fit because of football why would Duke even be interesting to them? Regardless, Duke and UNC aren't going anywhere.

I agree with you, UNC and Duke probably wouldn't end up leaving. What I said in my post was that the SEC would inquire them before they would inquire KU and especially KSU.

And its not a matter of fitting in with football as to why the SEC would look into Duke over KU, as much as it is TV market value. Duke would bring two markets (Charlotte and Raleigh) that are both larger than Kansas' largest market (Kansas City). That's why I think UNC and Duke would be looked at by the SEC before Kansas and KState would be, should the 6 previously mentioned schools join the Pac 10.

 

[Cheno]

I agree with you, UNC and Duke probably wouldn't end up leaving. What I said in my post was that the SEC would inquire them before they would inquire KU and especially KSU.
And its not a matter of fitting in with football as to why the SEC would look into Duke over KU, as much as it is TV market value. Duke would bring two markets (Charlotte and Raleigh) that are both larger than Kansas' largest market (Kansas City). That's why I think UNC and Duke would be looked at by the SEC before Kansas and KState would be, should the 6 previously mentioned schools join the Pac 10.

Every thing you say is true but it's not going to happen. Duke and UNC aren't going anywhere so it really wouldn't even be a conversation. If the 6 teams go to the Pac-10 and you have KU, KSU, Baylor, Nebraska, Missouri & Iowa St. sitting out there you'll probably see the Big 10, SEC, Conference USA etc jumping all over them as fast as they can.

 

[stoops4pres]

Every thing you say is true but it's not going to happen. Duke and UNC aren't going anywhere so it really wouldn't even be a conversation.

Yes, I am aware of that. I previously said that UNC and Duke wouldn't leave. But that's not my point.

What I said was the SEC would LOOK INTO trying to add them first over looking into adding KU and KState. Whether or not they would leave isn't my point, its that KU and KState wouldn't be the SEC's first options to look into on deck should the 6 teams leave.

If the 6 teams go to the Pac-10 and you have KU, KSU, Baylor, Nebraska, Missouri & Iowa St. sitting out there you'll probably see the Big 10, SEC, Conference USA etc jumping all over them as fast as they can.

No one's going to be jumping all over KState and Iowa State should the Big 12 be dismembered. They are in serious trouble. C-USA is the only conference I can see them joining, unless a good number of teams reject the Big 10.

At this point in time, I don't think there's any chance any of those teams join the SEC. Even if Miami, UNC, & Duke weren't looked into first by the SEC, I still don't think KU would be first off the list.

I think between Nebraska, Mizzou, and KU are the only realistic options for the Big 10.

 

[Sid]

I feel bad for Kansas. They're in a tough spot right now and there is nothing they can do about it. The Big 10 is not interested in KU. If the Big 12 splits apart, the only prayer KU has is if the Big East and the ACC decided to merge. If that occurs, it would make sense for them to extend an offer to KU. Otherwise, it's C-USA for Kansas. If that happens, it will be the end of KU basketball, as we know it.

The bottom line is KU needs the Big 12 to survive in its present form. I understand the two schools that refused to commit to the Big 12 were aTm and OU. Regardless of what aTm wants us to believe, I think they are tied to whatever Texas decides to do. From a football standpoint, if Texas is allowed to have its own tv network, it would create a huge disadvantage for Oklahoma. That’s why when the air clears over this situation, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if OU/OSU end up in the SEC.

 

[stoops4pres]

I feel bad for Kansas. They're in a tough spot right now and there is nothing they can do about it. The Big 10 is not interested in KU. If the Big 12 splits apart, the only prayer KU has is if the Big East and the ACC decided to merge. If that occurs, it would make sense for them to extend an offer to KU. Otherwise, it's C-USA for Kansas. If that happens, it will be the end of KU basketball, as we know it.

I agree that they are in a very difficult spot, and when the dust settles I don't see the Big 10 or especially SEC picking them up, if all the hypothetical situations go accordingly. It'll be interesting to see.

But if that happens, they'll be fine in bball. You can thrive as a basketball program without being in a major conference. Look at Memphis the past couple of years (and just recently signed the #1 class), Louisville before the Big East merger, UNLV in the early 90's, etc.

 

[bocabull]

The SEC will not care about Kansas & KSU (not in the region and no TV market).

They have theirs eyes on 1 prize ... the Texas TV market and recruiting base. Texas A&M is the smart way for them to enter this market. They don't even need Texas. If they picked up A&M and Baylor that would open the Texas TV market and keep the recruiting pipeline open.

Their biggest fear is that the Pac-10 gets UT, A&M and Tech and that gives the Pac-10 7 of the 20 biggest TV markets and 2 of the 3 biggest recruiting bases in the nation all to themselves with no competition.

A&M really holds the cards here. The SEC could add A&M & Baylor to open the Texas TV market, FSU (to strengthen the florida TV market) and Clemson and they could compete with the Pac-16 in both TV revenues and recruiting.

 

[PasoPoke]

The whole reason OSU and Tech are included in the equation is political.

It would be much easier for the Pac 10 to expand if they don't have to fight the political machines in 3 states Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas.

The Pac 10 wants nothing to do with KSU, that creates a big problem for Kansas.

Tech is geographically a good fit, has a good football program and facilities.

OSU can also be competitive in football with most of the teams in the Pac 10 and brings strong programs in non-revenue sports which the Pac 10 prides itself.

So by offering the 3 Texas schools, the 2 Oklahoma schools and Colorado the Pac 10 locks up the Texas/OK/Colorado markets and gets two football powerhouses (Oklahoma/Texas) and a Colorado team that has some good history along with 4 pretty strong basketball programs. A&M is a newcomer but they have definitely improved their basketball profile.

They get all that and no political headaches.

 

[stoops4pres]

The SEC will not care about Kansas & KSU (not in the region and no TV market).

They have theirs eyes on 1 prize ... the Texas TV market and recruiting base. Texas A&M is the smart way for them to enter this market. They don't even need Texas. If they picked up A&M and Baylor that would open the Texas TV market and keep the recruiting pipeline open.

Their biggest fear is that the Pac-10 gets UT, A&M and Tech and that gives the Pac-10 7 of the 20 biggest TV markets and 2 of the 3 biggest recruiting bases in the nation all to themselves with no competition.

A&M really holds the cards here. The SEC could add A&M & Baylor to open the Texas TV market, FSU (to strengthen the florida TV market) and Clemson and they could compete with the Pac-16 in both TV revenues and recruiting.

You're spot-on in a lot of this. Good post.

 

[Cheno]

No one's going to be jumping all over KState and Iowa State should the Big 12 be dismembered. They are in serious trouble. C-USA is the only conference I can see them joining, unless a good number of teams reject the Big 10.

I disagree. I think K-State will go wherever KU goes. Lew Perkins and Self have both said they believe KU & KSU are tied together and they want it that way. Similar to OU & OSU. Plus K-State has really stepped up their basketball program and football has great support and has shown they can put a winner on the field. But the emergence of Frank Martin's basketball program has really helped them in these talks I believe. He may have the 3rd best program of the Big 12 teams over the next decade.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Otherwise, it's C-USA for Kansas. If that happens, it will be the end of KU basketball, as we know it.

Uh, no. KU basketball isn't going anywhere. If KU joined C-USA it really wouldn't be a huge drop-off from a basketball standpoint. Where it would hurt is in football. The only positive for football is KU could compete for league titles. But basketball wise if C-USA added KU they'd definitely add KSU and the probably Baylor because they would need somewhere to go.
Then all of a sudden your top 4 teams in that league would be better than the top 4 teams in the Big 12 next year (3 of them are KU, KSU & Baylor and then Memphis is projected by many top 10 next year).
The bottom teams would be a bit weaker but not considerably.
But there are just so many dominoes that would fall that there is no way to really tell. I would think C-USA, if they land KU, KSU & Baylor, may look to cherry pick some other schools to make a basketball conference. That would be their niche. Schools in the area that are currently in weaker leagues like Butler, Xavier, Dayton or New Mexico. There are so many scenario's.

Again, I hope the Big 12 stays together for the history and tradition but if something happens I just want KU to stay out of the Pac-10. I hate West Coast basketball in general from the tip-off times to the travel time to the style of play.

 

[Cheno]

The SEC will not care about Kansas & KSU (not in the region and no TV market).
They have theirs eyes on 1 prize ... the Texas TV market and recruiting base. Texas A&M is the smart way for them to enter this market. They don't even need Texas. If they picked up A&M and Baylor that would open the Texas TV market and keep the recruiting pipeline open.
Their biggest fear is that the Pac-10 gets UT, A&M and Tech and that gives the Pac-10 7 of the 20 biggest TV markets and 2 of the 3 biggest recruiting bases in the nation all to themselves with no competition.
A&M really holds the cards here. The SEC could add A&M & Baylor to open the Texas TV market, FSU (to strengthen the florida TV market) and Clemson and they could compete with the Pac-16 in both TV revenues and recruiting.

I agree with a lot of this but the Texas schools can't go to both the Pac-10 and the SEC. So the SEC may care a lot about KU & KSU if the Pac-10 lands the 6 teams that are being mentioned. If the SEC would land the Texas schools then I could see OU, OSU, KU, KSU, Baylor, Mizzou possibly staying together and then adding some schools like Memphis, New Mexico, Arkansas, etc. There are just so many different scenarios that until the first dominoe falls, if it even does, there just is no way to know.
But if the Texas & Oklahoma schools go to the Pac-10 then all of a sudden KU & KSU look real attractive to a number of conferences. If the SEC would land KU, KSU, Baylor & say Memphis to give them a 16 team conference then all of a sudden they are still the best football conference and now the best basketball conference or right there with the Big East. Definitely passing the ACC.