OU Versus Other Big 12 Teams in the Last 10 Games

[AdaSooner]

—Baylor (3-7)
—Iowa State (3-7)
—Kansas (2-8)
—Kansas State (4-6)
—Oklahoma State (5-5)
—Texas Christian (8-2)
—Texas (4-6)
—Texas Tech (4-6)
—West Virginia (4-6)

*Source: SoonerStats.com

 

[thebigabd]

—Baylor (3-7)
—Iowa State (3-7)
—Kansas (2-8)
—Kansas State (4-6)
—Oklahoma State (5-5)
—Texas Christian (8-2)
—Texas (4-6)
—Texas Tech (4-6)
—West Virginia (4-6)

*Source: SoonerStats.com

If that says what I think it says.... not a good sign.

 

[Hollisp]

Who wants to do that same stat for everyone else in the big 12? Give us some more data points. I don’t. But just sayin’ would be good to see.

 

[AdaSooner]

If that says what I think it says.... not a good sign.

Seems simple enough to me. We have owned TCU in the last ten games, we’re dead even with OSU, and we’ve got a losing record to all of the other teams.

Not a good sign indeed!

 

[sheepdogs1]

It's a glaring stat based off of 10 seasons of play as opposed to the "one game doesn't make a trend" verbiage.

 

[TINY]

Send it to joe c and ask him if he thinks it’s good enough.

 

[mict085]

Yeah. That’s gross. Lon needs to retire now. Of course, it doesn’t matter what the fans think. Lon will be here until he decides to retire. So, settle in and get accustomed to this level of play for the foreseeable future.


I just threw up in my mouth.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Yeah. That’s gross. Lon needs to retire now. Of course, it doesn’t matter what the fans think. Lon will be here until he decides to retire. So, settle in and get accustomed to this level of play for the foreseeable future.


I just threw up in my mouth.

going the the dance more that all but a tiny about of teams ..


yep i will take it ..

 

[MJSooner]

It's a glaring stat based off of 10 seasons of play as opposed to the "one game doesn't make a trend" verbiage.

Last 10 games would not be the last 10 seasons.

It would be 4 seasons plus, depending on who we play in the Big 12 tournament since we play a team at least twice each year. It may include some of the 2016 season, depending on the opponent. If you looking at it starting in 2017, where we have been below .500 in conference and had a woeful 2017, obviously it won't be a great record.

 

[oudna]

College basketball in the state of Oklahoma had it’s fate sealed in 2008.

A minor league state can’t support a major league team, plus 2 major college programs.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Last 10 games would not be the last 10 seasons.

It would be 4 seasons plus, depending on who we play in the Big 12 tournament since we play a team at least twice each year. It may include some of the 2016 season, depending on the opponent. If you looking at it starting in 2017, where we have been below .500 in conference and had a woeful 2017, obviously it won't be a great record.

You are correct as I forgot we play them at least twice per year. I'll give you a gimme from within 10 ft.

 

[oudna]

Big 12 records before Thunder...
OU 139-69
OSU 123-85

Big 12 records after Thunder...
OU 89-104
OSU 81-111

 

[AdaSooner]

For the record, I didn’t pick the start and stop point of the last 10 games. SoonerStats did that for me.

http://www.soonerstats.com/basketball/men/opponents/index.cfm

 

[Soonerinkc]

Seems simple enough to me. We have owned TCU in the last ten games, we’re dead even with OSU, and we’ve got a losing record to all of the other teams.

Not a good sign indeed!

Well.... I guess we at least have tcu next...the only winning record against them

 

[thebigabd]

Big 12 records before Thunder...
OU 139-69
OSU 123-85

Big 12 records after Thunder...
OU 89-104
OSU 81-111

Ok, while that APPEARS to look legit, this may be a little post hoc ergo propter hoc... my favorite logical fallacy.

This is a conclusion that assumes that if 'A' occurred after 'B' then 'B' must have caused 'A.' Example: I drank bottled water and now I am sick, so the water must have made me sick.

Or, to use here. "OU and OSU were good at basketball before the Thunder, and then after that were not good anymore. Therefore, the Thunder caused OU and OSU to be bad at basketball".

But what else happened around that time?

First of all, it was the end of the Sutton era. Eddie left in 2006, the torch was passed to Sean, who clearly had personal problems, substance abuse issues, etc and then it passed to Travis Ford who immediately went 23-12, 22-11, and 20-13, then things went downhill.

Basically the same thing happened in Norman. The Sampson era ended up in 2006. The exact same time-frame that the Sutton era ended. OU brings in Capel, and everything from there is history.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the programs took a slide right at the same time the best coaches in their programs history left. On top of that, they went a different direction as well. Young coaches who weren't from the area, didn't follow the patterns of success from the previous legends, etc.

I think for both programs, that has extended.

They don't recruit like Sampson and Eddie did... none of them have stressed toughness, defense, etc like Sampson and Eddie did... They have lacked identity which Eddie and Sampson clearly had..

The league itself also changed. The Big 12 turned into a different league, you have to play everyone twice now, the teams are different..

Lots of variables at play. I am not saying the Thunder is not a variable, but I think it has to do a lot more with Sampson and Sutton leaving at that time than it does the Thunder. If I had to rank the variables, I would say:

1.) Sampson and Sutton gone
2.) Bad hires/New, unproven coaches with no connection to the program
3.) Big 12 changed dramatically
4.) Poor recruiting strategy of new OU and OSU coaches
5.) Other league programs simply made better hires than OU and OSU did. OU made a risky hire then the safest possible hire. Both of those carry pros and cons. OSU has made ONLY risky hires.
6.) The Thunder have taken attention, fans, atmosphere, etc away from OU and OSU

 

[Soonerinkc]

going the the dance more that all but a tiny about of teams ..


yep i will take it ..

Not here to argue...
But what’s our record in MM?

If it’s more 1/done then the reality is being mediocre in the b12 doesn’t help prepare us.

 

[Hollisp]

Not here to argue...
But what’s our record in MM?

If it’s more 1/done then the reality is being mediocre in the b12 doesn’t help prepare us.

I’m assuming we are talking about the 6/7 or maybe it was 5/6 years in the NCAA tourney
7-6
Sweet 16
Final 4
1st
1st
2nd

I think that’s right. May have missed one

 

[stormspencer]

I’m assuming we are talking about the 6/7 or maybe it was 5/6 years in the NCAA tourney
7-6
Sweet 16
Final 4
1st
1st
2nd

I think that’s right. May have missed one

Buddy's freshman year, we lost to San Diego State. Buddy's sophomore year, we lost to one of the Dakota schools in OT (we were a 5 seed that year I believe).

 

[Hollisp]

That would be 8 years though right?!

F I don’t know. We need the original stat. I was assuming from boulders statement and we all know what happens ....

 

[MJSooner]

I’m assuming we are talking about the 6/7 or maybe it was 5/6 years in the NCAA tourney
7-6
Sweet 16
Final 4
1st
1st
2nd

I think that’s right. May have missed one

This is correct, and IMO, more relevant than what our record was against Iowa St. over the last 10 matchups.

We have made the tourney 6 of the last 7 years and are just over .500 in that time. Maybe more importantly to me is how did we fare vs. our seeding in the tourney. Did we play up to expecations. If my memory serves me right, here is what we did.
2013- 12 seed lost to 7 San Diego St
2014- # 5 lost to #12 North Dakota St
2015- #13, beat #14 Albany(??), beat #11 Dayton, lost to #7 Mich St
2016- #2 beat #15 Cal St, #10 (??) VCU, #3 A&M, #1 Oregon, then ....
2017- did not make it
2018- #10 lost to #7 Rhode Island (??)
2019- #9 beat #8 Ole Miss, lost to #2 Virginia


From all that you can see we only lost as a higher seed in the tourney under Kruger ONE TIME. Much different that Kelvin, or even Billy, as a higher seed. Both of those coaches would be labeled as better than Kruger by most everyone, including me, but they often lost as a higher seed in the tourney.

I would agree that we need to be better regular season, but the only real deficiency that last few years has been our road record. That has been where we have faltered most. Get near .500 on the road in conference and we have a much different view on how we have done. That also get's us better seeding, and better results, in the tourney.