Re: Next Year, help me out

[Stikboy]

Re: Next Year, help me out

So, we're all pretty excited about the new guys coming in. They have height and length and that will obviously help. But I'm struggling to see where we'll be THAT much bigger on the floor at one time, than this year. Let's assume like some have said that Buford takes Clark's spot in the lineup... We will be exactly the same size but less experienced. If they work with Spangler to play more of a 4 and insert Lattin, then we still only gain an inch at two positions, and in Spangler's case lose some range/athleticism(compared to Cam). Now we will have more tall guys on the bench for sure but..

I looked at Baylor's lineup at one time, they had a 7-1 (5), a 6-11(4), a 6-7(3), and then Heslip and their 6-1 point guard... I realize that lots of teams can't go that big, but it seems if you have a large athletic 3 then it's a huge advantage... I'm wondering if OU would ever go: Woodard-Hield-Buford-Spangler-Lattin to get larger... I realize that Cousins is now one of our best players and seems ridiculous to send him to the bench.. And I also realize that no one even knows if Buford or Lattin will even be ready.

OU beat Baylor twice with a small lineup but last night their size seemed to really expose us. I love what Spangs does most of the time, but OU has next to no inside scoring threat, even against teams smaller than Baylor. I just wonder with these new larger pieces if Lon will try to bigger, as it would appear we have a much lower ceiling with the small lineup.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Re: Next Year, help me out

we need some low post scoring... watch New Mexico's team with Kirk and bairstow.. fun team to watch

 

[jerry]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Yeah we really need to get bigger. Spangler was completely intimidated last night in the paint offensively.

 

[garyeb2]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Buford will be a starter when the season begins. He is taller than Cam with as good or better hops. He is a talent equal to or a little higher than Buddy. He won't be asked to be a scorer right away. I would think maybe 10 per game.

The focus of the off season will be to develop Spangler some face the basket game. And for the rest of them, they will need to get stronger with a harder edge. When Spangler comes along as hoped, they can then play two bigs some.

Spangler has been worn down this season. Some improvement from Bennett and the addition of Lattin and maybe even McNeace will keep them all fresher, fouls to give protecting the rim, and a closed gap in the size disadvantage against some opponents.

The staff believes strength and toughness are issues that have led to some marginal defense this season. Another off season and a year older will help with that.

Kruger will make a player out of Lattin. My bet is sooner rather than later. They will be bigger, stronger , deeper, and more experienced next year.

 

[Stikboy]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Appreciated as usual. Hopeful that all the freshmen come in and make some HUGE strength gains this summer. I saw somewhere where Lattin is being "tutored" or trained by John Lucas. It'd be nice if Lucas was putting him on the weights right now.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Keep wingspan in mind too. Buford to a slightly lesser extent than the other two, but all three appear to me to have really long arms. I know I've read that about Lattin and McNease. That is just as good as height.

And there are VERY few teams that can put the height that Baylor put on the floor last night, on the floor against us. No reason to panic b/c one team happens to be freakishly long. I think we're fine in most places, but adding a guy like McNease inside will help when a guy like Spangler isn't enough.

 

[AdaSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

So, we're all pretty excited about the new guys coming in. They have height and length and that will obviously help. But I'm struggling to see where we'll be THAT much bigger on the floor at one time, than this year. Let's assume like some have said that Buford takes Clark's spot in the lineup... We will be exactly the same size but less experienced. If they work with Spangler to play more of a 4 and insert Lattin, then we still only gain an inch at two positions, and in Spangler's case lose some range/athleticism(compared to Cam). Now we will have more tall guys on the bench for sure but..

There is more to getting bigger than gaining an inch or two in height. As Gary said, his inexperience aside, Buford should be an adequate replacement for Cam. Maybe not at first, but in time I, too, believe he'll be just fine in that role, and he might even be better. Keep in mind, Buford will play the three, not the four as Cam has been forced to do this year.

Lattin is really long, meaning he will play bigger than his 6' 9" listed size. McNeace may not be a factor next year, but he is an unusually long 6' 9" to 6' 10" (depends on which recruiting site you read) due to his 84" wing span.

Assuming Bennett improves in the off season, I think next year's front court will be bigger, deeper and considerably better than this year.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Re: Next Year, help me out

regardless of if we have increased height or not.. it wont matter as much unless we get some production from our posts on the offensive end.. i hope we stress this on top of our guard play this offseason

 

[WTSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

There is more to getting bigger than gaining an inch or two in height. As Gary said, his inexperience aside, Buford should be an adequate replacement for Cam. Maybe not at first, but in time I, too, believe he'll be just fine in that role, and he might even be better. Keep in mind, Buford will play the three, not the four as Cam has been forced to do this year.

Lattin is really long, meaning he will play bigger than his 6' 9" listed size. McNeace may not be a factor next year, but he is an unusually long 6' 9" to 6' 10" (depends on which recruiting site you read) due to his 84" wing span.

Assuming Bennett improves in the off season, I think next year's front court will be bigger, deeper and considerably better than this year.

Actually, Buford will play the 4 next year, if he plans on starting.

I think in time he could slide out to the 3, but I'd guess as a starter, that would be his junior season at the earliest. He might get some minutes behind Hield, if LK wants to go big. But we have a lot of guards that need minutes. I think minutes inside will be easier to come by in the next year or two.

 

[AdaSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Actually, Buford will play the 4 next year, if he plans on starting.

I think in time he could slide out to the 3, but I'd guess as a starter, that would be his junior season at the earliest. He might get some minutes behind Hield, if LK wants to go big. But we have a lot of guards that need minutes. I think minutes inside will be easier to come by in the next year or two.

I don't disagree that he may start out at the four. But he is the heir apparent to Cam, and the plan is to eventually move him to the three.

I'm sure that won't happen until someone proves worthy of playing the five, so Ryan can be moved to the four.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

I don't disagree that he may start out at the four. But he is the heir apparent to Cam, and the plan is to eventually move him to the three.

I'm sure that won't happen until someone proves worthy of playing the five, so Ryan can be moved to the four.

I don't see any scenario where Hield moves to the two, and bumps Cousins to the bench. For a lot of reasons. If that is true, that means the next chance that Buford has to start at the 3 isn't until Hield graduates in two years.

And if we sign a guy like Allen, or Cunningham (unlikely), or another three, Buford may stay inside his entire career.

It's not surprise, to me, that Cam had his best year playing the 4 exclusively.

 

[garyeb2]

Re: Next Year, help me out

I don't see any scenario where Hield moves to the two, and bumps Cousins to the bench. For a lot of reasons. If that is true, that means the next chance that Buford has to start at the 3 isn't until Hield graduates in two years.

And if we sign a guy like Allen, or Cunningham (unlikely), or another three, Buford may stay inside his entire career.

It's not surprise, to me, that Cam had his best year playing the 4 exclusively.

They have run very little offense for Buddy and virtually none for Cousins. Cam has had the benefit of getting his number called. But yet, Buddy and Cousins have gotten themselves enough looks to be a couple of dependable scorers.

Next season Buddy and Cousins will have offense for them to get the ball in a position to shoot or make a play. I would pick them one/two for team scoring. Buford from the #4 will have to get his own.

Buford may play a small forward type role as bigs develop. We'll see, but, I'm betting sooner rather than later with Lattin.

 

[DenverSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Kruger will make a player out of Lattin. My bet is sooner rather than later. They will be bigger, stronger , deeper, and more experienced next year.

I think he will make a player out of all three guys. The one thing you everyone should be happy about is player development under Kruger.

 

[AdaSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

I saw somewhere where Lattin is being "tutored" or trained by John Lucas. It'd be nice if Lucas was putting him on the weights right now.

Lucas' involvement with Lattin and his efforts to point him in OU's direction is something we haven't talked about much. Lucas is not only a great mentor and a teacher/coach who knows the game of basketball, he is one dude in Houston we want on our side.

To be honest, I was surprised when I read that Lucas was instrumental in steering Lattin to OU. That tells me he and LK have a great relationship that likely goes back a number of years. We're very fortunate to have someone like him in one of the nation's hotbeds of talented high school and prep recruits.

 

[usedtobe1]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Baylor played the perfect game last night to show the blueprint on beating OU. On defense they played that extended 1-3-1 or 2-3 and made the Sooners hurry their outside shots. Baylor's length made the 3-pointers tough to shoot over..... kind of like Syracuse does it. Also, they had absolutely no respect for OU's post offense, so they shut down our outside game and relied on 1 defender to play the inside game. They were blocking shots at will when the Sooners did go inside.

On offense they just had their way on the boards and just overpowered us. All teams should attack us inside.

We have to get better in the front court next year. Spangler is a 4 playing the 5. He's smart and battles on the boards, but we need more offense out of him. We need the best of the 3 freshmen ready to play inside, too, and that's probably Buford. I'm hoping Lattin will be ready to play some big minutes, too. I'm also praying for a physical transfer inside like Kansas got in Tarik Black. All of our post players are finesse players and we need a banger/enforcer.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Spangler is a 4 playing the 5.

I keep reading stuff like this. A lot of teams, OU included, have won a lot of games with a guy just like Spangler playing the 5.

True, he is not a true center, or a giant, or a shot blocker. But he is more than adequate. Last night was just one game. We, and Spangler, have held our own on the boards most all year. Even against bigger teams. Even against Baylor. Twice.

Not saying additional size wouldn't be nice, but if LK wants to play the same style next year, I don't know how moving Spangler to the 4 improves our team. Can you really see him doing the same things that Cam did this year? Cam was more of a 3 playing the 4. Spangler would be more of a 5, or big 4. Changes the entire complexion of the 1st unit, IMO.

Edit: I got a little side tracked, but I was thinking about all of Kelvin's teams that won a lot of games with a 5 no bigger than Spangler.

 

[DenverSooner]

Re: Next Year, help me out

Baylor only beat OU for one half. In the second half their defense was not able to repeat that performance. Obviously they won the game but I am not sure it is the perfect blue print for beating OU as demonstrated by the second half. I am also not convinced many teams have the size of Baylor. How many teams have a 7'1" center and a 6'9" PF like Baylor? Even if a team has that size, those players likely lack the athletic ability of Austin and Jefferson.

 

[originalsooner55]

Re: Next Year, help me out

I keep reading stuff like this. A lot of teams, OU included, have won a lot of games with a guy just like Spangler playing the 5.

True, he is not a true center, or a giant, or a shot blocker. But he is more than adequate. Last night was just one game. We, and Spangler, have held our own on the boards most all year. Even against bigger teams. Even against Baylor. Twice.

Not saying additional size wouldn't be nice, but if LK wants to play the same style next year, I don't know how moving Spangler to the 4 improves our team. Can you really see him doing the same things that Cam did this year? Cam was more of a 3 playing the 4. Spangler would be more of a 5, or big 4. Changes the entire complexion of the 1st unit, IMO.

Edit: I got a little side tracked, but I was thinking about all of Kelvin's teams that won a lot of games with a 5 no bigger than Spangler.

WT, we finally agree on something, it is just one game and people forget that we have beat Baylor twice, and also Texas twice, and both of these team, especially Texas, is big and physical. Also, the game against Kansas at Kansas, I thought Spangler held his own against Black and Embeid. I tend to agree with what Gary said about Spangler that he may have worn down some. I hope Spangler and the rest of the team uses these days from now till the 1st game NCAA Tourn. to get better and get much needed rest.

 

[usedtobe1]

Re: Next Year, help me out

I keep reading stuff like this. A lot of teams, OU included, have won a lot of games with a guy just like Spangler playing the 5.

True, he is not a true center, or a giant, or a shot blocker. But he is more than adequate. Last night was just one game. We, and Spangler, have held our own on the boards most all year. Even against bigger teams. Even against Baylor. Twice.

Not saying additional size wouldn't be nice, but if LK wants to play the same style next year, I don't know how moving Spangler to the 4 improves our team. Can you really see him doing the same things that Cam did this year? Cam was more of a 3 playing the 4. Spangler would be more of a 5, or big 4. Changes the entire complexion of the 1st unit, IMO.

Edit: I got a little side tracked, but I was thinking about all of Kelvin's teams that won a lot of games with a 5 no bigger than Spangler.

I love Spangler's game, but there is a lot more to playing the post than getting rebounds. Besides his rebounding, Spangler also sets good screens, helps on defense, blocks out, and anticipates where the ball is going on a miss. Officiating basketball for many years helped me appreciate things that don't show up on stat sheets, and I know he does a lot of little things very well that a lot of people don't notice.

His defensive weakness is he isn't real thick and has a tough time bodying up on defense, and isn't a shot blocker or intimidator on the inside. It wears you out with a guy who weighs 25 pounds more that is posting you up on every play, especially if they are 2-3 inches taller. We have nobody that can defend it. Clark is a good defender but can't really help against bigger guys, and Tyler Neal is our 1st post man off the bench. Enough said. All that helped Baylor to have a 35-7 advantage at the foul line last night. They overwhelmed us down low on both ends.

We don't have a post offense either. 35 of our 66 shots last night were from the 3-point line. I thought it was unbelievable that over 53% of our shots were from deep. That was surprising because Baylor's zone was really extended to shut down the perimeter, and we didn't take advantage of it. We weren't aggressive, so it was no wonder that there was such a discrepancy at the foul line.

We just have to get better and deeper in the post with our recruiting. Ryan needs help. He can't be the only one.

 

[garyeb2]

Re: Next Year, help me out

I keep reading stuff like this. A lot of teams, OU included, have won a lot of games with a guy just like Spangler playing the 5.

True, he is not a true center, or a giant, or a shot blocker. But he is more than adequate. Last night was just one game. We, and Spangler, have held our own on the boards most all year. Even against bigger teams. Even against Baylor. Twice.

Not saying additional size wouldn't be nice, but if LK wants to play the same style next year, I don't know how moving Spangler to the 4 improves our team. Can you really see him doing the same things that Cam did this year? Cam was more of a 3 playing the 4. Spangler would be more of a 5, or big 4. Changes the entire complexion of the 1st unit, IMO.

Edit: I got a little side tracked, but I was thinking about all of Kelvin's teams that won a lot of games with a 5 no bigger than Spangler.

Come on WT. I don't think "more than adequate" and "winning a lot of games" is Kruger's objective during his stay at Oklahoma. That is what he did this year. I think those objectives are more along the line of competing for conference championships and making deep tournament runs.

You are right. Moving Spangler to the #4 isn't the play that would take us to the next level. However, having a shot blocker and rim protector at the #5 is the play. As another poster pointed out, Spangler does many things that make us a good team that don't show up on a stat sheet. Plus his toughness, hustle, and leadership would be hard to replace.

I think the staff, in time, would like to preserve all the positives that Spangler brings and expand his face to the basket game. The objective being to evolve Spangler into a "more than adequate" #4 in order to be really good at the #1, #2, #3, and #5.

As far as what kind of look Kruger is after, that seems to depend on the players available. If M'Baye were still around, he would probably be the leading scorer and rebounder, or close to it, and Cam would be coming off the bench.