Recruits attending Texas Tech's camp

[SoonerNorm]

They may even threaten to put Mr. Hardy on IGNORE.

:ez-roll:

 

[rocjunkie]

They may even threaten to put Mr. Hardy on IGNORE.

That would be their loss!!!!

 

[sybarite]

No, Hardy, you won't be on IGNORE soon because you have posted some decent stuff, unlike Soonerstar and gary. I had Norm on Ignore for some time a few years ago, but he does post some useful information, just heavily flavored in an anti-Sherri bias that he doesn't even recognize such that I wonder how many hours of surgery were required to separate he and Bay at birth.

But, I will challenge you to quit playing with the negatives and think. I have asked the question many times---why is it that the men, with all of their history and some pretty fair coaches, have not been anywhere near as successful as Sherri at attracting out-of-state stars to OU? Someone brought up Warren and maybe TMZ as top ten male recruits, but I think history has shown why they weren't so heavily sought by other top programs. The men's program did have success with JC transfers and a couple of really good Oklahoma kids. But, other than Adams, Tisdale, and Griffin, the men have never had a really top quality player come to OU, and they were from Oklahoma. We've also lost our share of Oklahomans to other states.

We can get top grade recruits for football, gymnastics, softball, and, now, apparently, tennis. But, we have never been able to attract that top grade recruit to Norman in basketball, except that Sherri did it with Courtney, Ashley, and Amanda, all top ten. I don't know that the men have ever had anyone the quality of Abi or Danielle who were rated a notch below.

Why is it that basketball just can't get top rated people to come to Norman? Sherri has had a lot more success than the men, and that is what you really have to compare. You can't compare women's basketball to softball or football because they recruit different types of people from different backgrounds.

You can make up all the reasons to complain about Sherri that you want, and some seem to want to complain constantly. But, it simply isn't logical. No men's basketball coach at OU has had the success that Sherri has had on a sustained basis. Until you can explain why the men's program isn't as good, you aren't even on the right track for discussion.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I would like to address some of the recent comments on this thread.

1. The reasons laid out for Sherri dropping the camp -- insurance costs -- are simply B.S. In light of all the other sports holding camps, it simply doesn't hold water. On it's face, it's a lie. Plain and simple.

What would hold water, if this excuse is to be believed is that something happened at one of Sherri's camps that bordered on unlawful and that as some part of an agreement between OU, the injured and the university's insurance company, the university dropped the camp for a period of time or permanently.

That is the only possible excuse other than Sherri didn't want to do them anymore.

2. I don't know for certain whether Sherri and her staff are or aren't using Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook or whatever else is out there that keeps prospects glued to their Iphones/Androids.

But if they aren't then Norm would be DAMN right, Sherri isn't doing her job. That is a significant part of recruiting and for coaches and their assistants to not use them puts OU at a serious disadvanatage in recruiting.

Our recruiting the last couple of years has, I think, improved on guards. It's crap on bigs and forwards. That also is a fact. There are signs that with Treece and ViVi it might be taking a step up. We will know in a few months. It certainly can't be much worse than it's been.

Someone wants to say I'm anti-Sherri or OU for saying that -- tough. It's the facts that almost every unbiased reviewer/fan/pundit/journalists/basketball expert would agree with.

Sherri can and does recruit good guards, she might get a top 50 or top 25 everyo now and again. But our guards are good and show promise no matter what their rankings are, etc., etc.

The only things that are in question about Sherri is her recruiting process and failure to recruit game-changing centers since Abi, her dribble, dribble around the key style of offense and some of her substitution/rotation patterns.

She's a borderline great coach. She is, I think, sick of recruiting and doesn't want to do it any more. She has too narrow of a "type" of girl she is willing to sign, and I, actually, think she might rather be in the classroom teaching something else.

All coaches get worn out, tired, etc. I think she's going through that after nearly 20 years. I expect her to pick it up this coming years because one more year like last year and her job's going to be on the line, no matter what she's done in the past.

I look for her to retire in two seasons.

You're right. None of the excuses we have heard makes sense and are nothing but spin. I believe Sherri would tell you that recruiting is her least favorite part of coaching. Contrast that with Switzer whom I believed loved getting to know young high school kids as well as their parents and developing a relationship with them.

I have said that I really don't care where great players come from. We had Stacey Dales from Canada, DRob and the twins from California, as well as girls from Oklahoma, Texas, and other states. But, let's look at this last class. We have Gabbi whom I have said is really good and I'm glad she's a Sooner. After that, no one stands out to me. I think we could have found better girls in Texas than the ones coming from Florida. The question is, should we be spending a lot of time and money in Florida trying to get to know high school coaches, AAU coaches, players and their families, or would our time and money be more wisely spent in Texas to benefit us now and in the future; especially, if we are not getting the top players from Florida? Now, if we are coming home with elite players from Florida like we have from California, then I'm all for it! I just haven't seen that materialize yet.

Some will try to justify everything this coaching staff does whether it makes sense or not.

 

[soonermike22]

I would like to address some of the recent comments on this thread.

1. The reasons laid out for Sherri dropping the camp -- insurance costs -- are simply B.S. In light of all the other sports holding camps, it simply doesn't hold water. On it's face, it's a lie. Plain and simple.

What would hold water, if this excuse is to be believed is that something happened at one of Sherri's camps that bordered on unlawful and that as some part of an agreement between OU, the injured and the university's insurance company, the university dropped the camp for a period of time or permanently.

That is the only possible excuse other than Sherri didn't want to do them anymore.

2. I don't know for certain whether Sherri and her staff are or aren't using Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook or whatever else is out there that keeps prospects glued to their Iphones/Androids.

But if they aren't then Norm would be DAMN right, Sherri isn't doing her job. That is a significant part of recruiting and for coaches and their assistants to not use them puts OU at a serious disadvanatage in recruiting.

Our recruiting the last couple of years has, I think, improved on guards. It's crap on bigs and forwards. That also is a fact. There are signs that with Treece and ViVi it might be taking a step up. We will know in a few months. It certainly can't be much worse than it's been.

Someone wants to say I'm anti-Sherri or OU for saying that -- tough. It's the facts that almost every unbiased reviewer/fan/pundit/journalists/basketball expert would agree with.

Sherri can and does recruit good guards, she might get a top 50 or top 25 everyo now and again. But our guards are good and show promise no matter what their rankings are, etc., etc.

The only things that are in question about Sherri is her recruiting process and failure to recruit game-changing centers since Abi, her dribble, dribble around the key style of offense and some of her substitution/rotation patterns.

She's a borderline great coach. She is, I think, sick of recruiting and doesn't want to do it any more. She has too narrow of a "type" of girl she is willing to sign, and I, actually, think she might rather be in the classroom teaching something else.

All coaches get worn out, tired, etc. I think she's going through that after nearly 20 years. I expect her to pick it up this coming years because one more year like last year and her job's going to be on the line, no matter what she's done in the past.

I look for her to retire in two seasons.

Nice food for thought.
1) When they want to, administrators can hide true reasons for action with a full dose of bullsh**. You are correct that the true reason for no WBB camps has yet to surface.
2) Don't know the reason for last years slump, but OUR coach did a great job the year before, getting to the sweet 16. One off year should motivate a good coach to re-energize, recruit, reorganize, or what ever happened to us last year. Happens to almost all coaches. The jury is still out.
3) It is the off season: time for reflection and discussion. Keep up the thought provoking post, but remember Sherry is the best coach OU women BB has, and basically made us a national noticed program.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Nice food for thought.
1) When they want to, administrators can hide true reasons for action with a full dose of bullsh**. You are correct that the true reason for no WBB camps has yet to surface.
2) Don't know the reason for last years slump, but OUR coach did a great job the year before, getting to the sweet 16. One off year should motivate a good coach to re-energize, recruit, reorganize, or what ever happened to us last year. Happens to almost all coaches. The jury is still out.
3) It is the off season: time for reflection and discussion. Keep up the thought provoking post, but remember Sherry is the best coach OU women BB has, and basically made us a national noticed program.

You bet, she deserves a lot of credit for what the program has accomplished. Hopefully, she can make the necessary changes to bring in more talent and get us back to the final four soon.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

Syb, the answer to your question is quite simple. There are more great-name men's programs with great history and there more great men playing the game.

Outside UCONN, ND and Stanford there aren't any other great women's programs and there are fewer women playing than men.

I think Billy Tubbs and his program were better than Sherri and the OU women. They faced much stiffer competition than Sherri and WBB ever has.




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[sybarite]

Syb, the answer to your question is quite simple. There are more great-name men's programs with great history and there more great men playing the game.

Outside UCONN, ND and Stanford there aren't any other great women's programs and there are fewer women playing than men.

I think Billy Tubbs and his program were better than Sherri and the OU women. They faced much stiffer competition than Sherri and WBB ever has.




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I keep seeing that nonsense put out there. It is nothing more than an excuse. It seeks to set different standards for men and women, and attempts to justify it on a basis that no longer applies.

Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and North Carolina have been good forever. Others tend to come and go. It is really no different from what happens with the women's game. Ten years from now, OU will still be looking up at Kansas and Kentucky.

Billy did not make it to three Final Fours, and he didn't inherit a program that had been cancelled only five years earlier. He actually lost when he should have won. But, I think Billy would be the first to take up Sherri's cause. I don't see coaches putting Sherri down. I see message board fodder.

You haven't made your case, nor has anyone else because you have difficulty stepping back and looking at OU from the outside or from and unbiased attitude. There are sports in which OU has an advantage. There are sports in which OU is at a disadvantage. But, you need to look at OU and Oklahoma from outside.

Someday, you will all get your wish. Sherri will be gone. I suspect very strongly that the program will struggle to remain in the upper division of the Big Twelve unless we get very lucky with a supercoach, and I don't see one on the horizon.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Syb, the answer to your question is quite simple. There are more great-name men's programs with great history and there more great men playing the game.

Outside UCONN, ND and Stanford there aren't any other great women's programs and there are fewer women playing than men.

I think Billy Tubbs and his program were better than Sherri and the OU women. They faced much stiffer competition than Sherri and WBB ever has.




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I know from past posts some have argued that women's basketball is directly connected to the men's program. Frankly, that is BS. The last I checked, S. Carolina does not have a top 10 men's team. The women's team was nothing to crow about either until Staley built the program to where it is now. The work she did has absolutely nothing to do with the men's program. If you look at Notre Dame, Muffet's success has nothing to do with the men's program winning or losing. I'm pretty sure Gary Blair doesn't give a rip one way or the other whether the Aggie men's team wins another game. The men's team had nothing to do with them winning a NC. I don't see Baylor's men's team helping Kim win national championships. It is just ignorant to say Sherri can't recruit elite plays because the men's basketball team is not elite. If Lon won the next 5 national championships in a row, it would have zero effect on Sherri's recruiting. It really is sad that some have to make one excuse after another to justify what is happening rather than just admit that recruiting is something that Sherri has struggled with when it comes to bigs. It doesn't mean she is a bad coach, just means recruiting is not a strength.

 

[BanjoCharley]

Broken record

 

[sybarite]

Norm, if you can't understand the discussion, don't participate. You are so bent on criticizing Sherri that you aren't even thinking about the comparison. It isn't that the men's program drags down the women's. It is that both have difficulty with something. Why? Sherri has had more success in fifteen years than the men's program has had in a hundred, but it is still difficult to get top name prospects from certain areas to come to Norman. Why? Why does that apply to basketball, but not football, gymnastics, or softball?

 

[gosooner2]

Norm, if you can't understand the discussion, don't participate. You are so bent on criticizing Sherri that you aren't even thinking about the comparison. It isn't that the men's program drags down the women's. It is that both have difficulty with something. Why? Sherri has had more success in fifteen years than the men's program has had in a hundred, but it is still difficult to get top name prospects from certain areas to come to Norman. Why? Why does that apply to basketball, but not football, gymnastics, or softball?

Could it possibly be that the coaches doing the recruiting in both mens and womens basketball are not as good at the job as the coaches in the other sports? Could it be that this comparison has absolutely nothing to do with either program? Smoke screens are smoke screens no matter how they are presented!

 

[Oliver Hardy]

Sherri has done a magnificent job at OU. I don't know anyone could say that she isn't a miracle worker.

She's had about six great years of teams. Several years of decent ones and a few clunkers (last season being the worst in my opinion). The great years were because of the Dales group and the Paris twins and D-Rob.

She isn't getting those players anymore, with the hopeful exception of Maddie and those she brought in this year.

I think the next 2 seasons, her 19th and 20th I believe, will do much to determine if she can take her legacy to the pinnacle of NCAAWBB.

I'd love it if she could.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Could it possibly be that the coaches doing the recruiting in both mens and womens basketball are not as good at the job as the coaches in the other sports? Could it be that this comparison has absolutely nothing to do with either program? Smoke screens are smoke screens no matter how they are presented!

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sybarite]

Could it possibly be that the coaches doing the recruiting in both mens and womens basketball are not as good at the job as the coaches in the other sports? Could it be that this comparison has absolutely nothing to do with either program? Smoke screens are smoke screens no matter how they are presented!

No.

 

[sybarite]

Sherri has done a magnificent job at OU. I don't know anyone could say that she isn't a miracle worker.

She's had about six great years of teams. Several years of decent ones and a few clunkers (last season being the worst in my opinion). The great years were because of the Dales group and the Paris twins and D-Rob.

She isn't getting those players anymore, with the hopeful exception of Maddie and those she brought in this year.

I think the next 2 seasons, her 19th and 20th I believe, will do much to determine if she can take her legacy to the pinnacle of NCAAWBB.

I'd love it if she could.

Very good.

II don't know how she lucked out to get Courtney and Ashley, but the duo also was probably the key to getting Amanda, DRob, and Abi. But, Sherri did pretty well, having her best team before Courtney in 2002.

The next few years will tell a lot. It would help if we could get a player of Whitney or Maddie's caliber without their being injured. But, if Maddie returns healthy, and we get production from Peyton, Vionese, Gabi, and Treece with Dungee and Llanusa coming in, we just need one or two pieces to hit the final four consistently.

I think it is difficult to get basketball recruits to Norman from out of state, and I don't know how she has done as well as she has. It is interesting that recruits don't flock to schools in Houston or Dallas either. They leave DFW and Houston to go to USC and Stanford. Kim got some at Baylor, but I think that may be over. The drawing power of Austin may well help set them up. They were a place that has the potential to get recruits. For years, they have left the state, but Austin's reputation is changing.

I think we are really about one good recruit every two years away from Final Four again, and we may well get it. I don't see Sherri as enduring ten years, but I don't see a replacement that I want. I actually do watch the midmajors and smaller colleges to see who is rising. It would not surprise me if the next coach weren't Whitney or Abi, both of whom could do the job. DRob might be interesting in a couple of years.

 

[Romulus]

Dont worry about the out of state girls, Sherri can't even keep the great instate girls home.

 

[BanjoCharley]

Wtf?