Rotnei Clarke

DirtyMess said:
You'd be arguing with yourself. Both struggle at getting their own shot, quite frankly, Rotnei catches and shoots and can navigate the wing and has a quicker release. Page is a better ballhandler but can't create his shot off of the dribble. He pacified this in high school by using a dribble move and pulling up from 30ft away. He can't do that on this level. Also, most of Page's three point shots were straight ahead threes where he would bring the ball up and just pull up. Catching and shooting from the wing was an adjustment for him last year.
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Page can create off the dribble if he wants too however he also looks to pass the ball. In high school I watched Ketion wear BTW out off the dribble. They couldn't guard him one on one so they decided to double him. I will agree about the catching and shooting but how is that creating your own shot?

Rotnei has a few inches on him now and that helps. However I guess I will argue with myself since I still believe I would take Page over Clarke. Just my opinion though. Good to see 2 kids from small schools in OKLA doing well at D-1 schools.

I guess I just see it differently. I see Page as a guy who could attempt to get more shots up but would also like to pass more. Looking it up neither passed much last year. Clarke had a whopping 32 assists in 30 games and Keiton had 46 in 35 games.

They both shot 39 percent on 3's with Page a little higher. Page a little better on overall fg's. Clarke did much better shooting free throws though.

Looks like they are very much identical.
 
DirtyMess said:
He's got a NBA chance. He differs from Page by the fact he has range from 35ft out. He's not 6'4 like Reddick, but he's about 6'0-6'1. He's not going to be able to create his own shot, but on a team with a guy like Kobe and Lebron, all he has to do is sneak around when those guys have the ball and spot up.


That quote is credited to Steve Pledger who has a monster basketball IQ.
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He would be great at playing the Craig Hodges, Buchelor role for the Bulls.

The biggest thing that will hurt him at the next level is his ability to guard. He isn't a guy they are going to have bring the ball up. He would be much like Steve Kerr, the only difference is that Steve was 6'4 I believe?
 
brettromar said:
Page can create off the dribble if he wants too however he also looks to pass the ball. In high school I watched Ketion wear BTW out off the dribble. They couldn't guard him one on one so they decided to double him. I will agree about the catching and shooting but how is that creating your own shot?

Rotnei has a few inches on him now and that helps. However I guess I will argue with myself since I still believe I would take Page over Clarke. Just my opinion though. Good to see 2 kids from small schools in OKLA doing well at D-1 schools.

I guess I just see it differently. I see Page as a guy who could attempt to get more shots up but would also like to pass more. Looking it up neither passed much last year. Clarke had a whopping 32 assists in 30 games and Keiton had 46 in 35 games.


They both shot 39 percent on 3's with Page a little higher. Page a little better on overall fg's. Clarke did much better shooting free throws though.

Looks like they are very much identical.
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I watched and drew up plays against Page since the 6th grade. I can tell you inside out what Page excels at and is weak at. Page used pet moves to get shots off all the time. One of his favorites was dribbling into the defenders chest and then going the other way to create space for lack of speed. He loved the quick dribble cross as he crossed half court and pulled up. He could do that on that level, and quite frankly, BTW and many schools in the state had nothing for him. But we aint talkin about BTW, we're talking about the best of the best. The guy who's guarding him and who he has to guard alot of times would have been the starting center for a 2A school. Page didn't create anything off the dribble last year, yesterday, or in any preseason drill. He's serviceable as a PG despite being a great shooter. He's not going to beat anyone off the dribble consistently on this level.


Clarke is not a PG and won't be. But his range, height and release give him an edge over Page.
 
DirtyMess said:
I watched and drew up plays against Page since the 6th grade. I can tell you inside out what Page excels at and is weak at. Page used pet moves to get shots off all the time. One of his favorites was dribbling into the defenders chest and then going the other way to create space for lack of speed. He loved the quick dribble cross as he crossed half court and pulled up. He could do that on that level, and quite frankly, BTW and many schools in the state had nothing for him. But we aint talkin about BTW, we're talking about the best of the best. The guy who's guarding him and who he has to guard alot of times would have been the starting center for a 2A school. Page didn't create anything off the dribble last year, yesterday, or in any preseason drill. He's serviceable as a PG despite being a great shooter. He's not going to beat anyone off the dribble consistently on this level.


Clarke is not a PG and won't be. But his range, height and release give him an edge over Page.
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Lets be honest here, I have seen both play more than either one of you.:woot

You crack me up with your drawing up plays to stop him. Why did you draw up plays? You couldn't guard him, so why use up the ink?

According to you J.J. Reddick used pet moves as well, atleast that is what I get from reading what you call pet moves. He seemed to do okay.
 
tallandsexy said:
Lets be honest here, I have seen both play more than either one of you.:woot

You crack me up with your drawing up plays to stop him. Why did you draw up plays? You couldn't guard him, so why use up the ink?

According to you J.J. Reddick used pet moves as well, atleast that is what I get from reading what you call pet moves. He seemed to do okay.
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you coached in the Tulsa school system. Page rarely went up against Tulsa schools unless it was the TOC. My AAU team saw Page 4 straight years. Alot of Oklahoma kids aren't going to have anything for a guy like Page if they don't understand about limiting dribble angles and forcing the ball out of his hands early. The kid is a top 100 player nationally for that class. The kid can play. But he's limited.

Quite Frankly, I prefer seeing a kid in AAU competition where you can see true one on one matchups with top level guys. If you look at what's going on in coaching today, AAU coaches are getting most of the credit in developing kids. Now in Page's case, the credit goes to his father, who is a great coach and was an AAU coach for AF early in their existence. But most of these top level guys are developed during AAU ball as opposed to being groomed by lackey assistants in the public school system who get to drive the bus and coach the freshman boys team.
 
DirtyMess said:
you coached in the Tulsa school system. Page rarely went up against Tulsa schools unless it was the TOC. My AAU team saw Page 4 straight years. Alot of Oklahoma kids aren't going to have anything for a guy like Page if they don't understand about limiting dribble angles and forcing the ball out of his hands early. The kid is a top 100 player nationally for that class. The kid can play. But he's limited.

Quite Frankly, I prefer seeing a kid in AAU competition where you can see true one on one matchups with top level guys. If you look at what's going on in coaching today, AAU coaches are getting most of the credit in developing kids. Now in Page's case, the credit goes to his father, who is a great coach and was an AAU coach for AF early in their existence. But most of these top level guys are developed during AAU ball as opposed to being groomed by lackey assistants in the public school system who get to drive the bus and coach the freshman boys team.
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The bolded statement is just comedy gold! Classic DM! :clap

Also, what AAU coaches are getting credit for developing players? Showcasing players maybe, but developing, not so much.
 
gracefor24 said:
The bolded statement is just comedy gold! Classic DM! :clap

Also, what AAU coaches are getting credit for developing players? Showcasing players maybe, but developing, not so much.
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Yea most AAU "practices" are disorganized chaos.
 
DirtyMess said:
you coached in the Tulsa school system. Page rarely went up against Tulsa schools unless it was the TOC. My AAU team saw Page 4 straight years. Alot of Oklahoma kids aren't going to have anything for a guy like Page if they don't understand about limiting dribble angles and forcing the ball out of his hands early. The kid is a top 100 player nationally for that class. The kid can play. But he's limited.

Quite Frankly, I prefer seeing a kid in AAU competition where you can see true one on one matchups with top level guys. If you look at what's going on in coaching today, AAU coaches are getting most of the credit in developing kids. Now in Page's case, the credit goes to his father, who is a great coach and was an AAU coach for AF early in their existence. But most of these top level guys are developed during AAU ball as opposed to being groomed by lackey assistants in the public school system who get to drive the bus and coach the freshman boys team.
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First of all I have never coached in the Tulsa school system. Second, I have seen Page and Clark play between 50 and 100 times in AAU.
 
DirtyMess said:
you coached in the Tulsa school system. Page rarely went up against Tulsa schools unless it was the TOC. My AAU team saw Page 4 straight years. Alot of Oklahoma kids aren't going to have anything for a guy like Page if they don't understand about limiting dribble angles and forcing the ball out of his hands early. The kid is a top 100 player nationally for that class. The kid can play. But he's limited.

Quite Frankly, I prefer seeing a kid in AAU competition where you can see true one on one matchups with top level guys. If you look at what's going on in coaching today, AAU coaches are getting most of the credit in developing kids. Now in Page's case, the credit goes to his father, who is a great coach and was an AAU coach for AF early in their existence. But most of these top level guys are developed during AAU ball as opposed to being groomed by lackey assistants in the public school system who get to drive the bus and coach the freshman boys team.
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Oh, jeez. :(
 
Geez this thing went personal real fast.

Dirty, you need to calm down man. When someone says something it isn't a shot at you so no need to get all defensive. I do love the argument of school assistant lackey against AAU coaching.

I think both do a lot for the players. AAU is great at getting exposure and getting these top level kids all over the country. I was fortunate to play on a team that got to travel around the country without doing any fundraisers or paying a dime for anything. It was great and we had good coaching.

There are good AAU coaches and there are bad AAU coaches.

There are good assistant lackeys, haha, and bad assistant lackeys.

I guess I fall in the middle somewhere. I coach at a public school but I do not drive the bus or coach the 9th graders. I have seen Paige and his brother in a school setting and the AAU setting. I used a high school reference because most on here have seen that school. If you were using the lackey thing for me, oh well I will live.

I have had discussions with coaches about the same thing you are arguing. It's not worth getting that worked up about it. You are proud of your AAU coaching background. That is great and I have repeatedly decided not to go down that road when asked because I don't want to devote the time you have. That is a compliment because I know you guys spend a TON of time.

You speak of drawing up plays against Page and seeing him 4 years in a row so you know what you speak of. You assume that guys like me haven't seen KP and Rotnei since they were in elementary school and played on the OK Hoosiers. They had another guard that is playing for Wake Forest now. I have been fortunate enough to coach against these guys at different times in their lives and have seen them plenty of times in AAU. However I guess I should just bow out of this because someone believes I haven't seen the kids enough at a certain levels or in certain tourneys. Good enough for me.
 
yea most aau "practices" are disorganized chaos
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.

Alot of times. Depends on the coach. You've got to understand that alot of times, the AAU coaches get stereotyped as street guys from the innercity and that's true sometimes. in the Late 90s, if you were in Oklahoma, You would have ran across AAU coaches who went on to coach at UCO, OU, Texas A&M, Southern University, Stephen F. Austin, Texas Pan Am, and others. Also, some of the best High School coaches in the state coach AAU teams. Look at David Page and Tommy Griffin. Both coached AF. If you coach with the right guy you can learn alot. Alot of times when you're an assistant on one of these squads you end up doing alot of gophering. Running to get players, transportation and shceduling issues, etc.

There was a coach in Tulsa in the late nineties who was a guy that was a hell of a coach. This guy understood the game inside out. People in Tulsa said that he was better than any high school coach in the Tulsa area, but the fact he didn't go to college really put him behind the eightball in regards of coaching. So their are guys who are organized and do things the right way. However there are still guys like a guy I saw in OKC last year who ran on the court in the middle of the game to give one of his players a chest bump after a made basket or the Illinois Warriors coach who was in the camera saying that he was #1 after his team one the real deal on the hill tourney.
 
playmakr said:
OU would have won the National Title last year with Rotnei Clarke.
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Whatever your smoking, I want some. Okay, they guy can stroke the ball, granted. But he ain't got the size, and/or athletic ability to play top level NCAA D. Plain and simple. God didn't shine on him in that regard.

I'd take a deaf/dumb/blind WW over Clarke 8 days a week. No disrespect intended to the aforementioned minority groups.

Ya don't see RC on ANY All American team's, do ya????
 
Rotnei Clarke was not scoring 51 pts last year. He was part of the reason Arky was 2-14 in the mediocre SEC.

51 pts is impressive but Alcorn state is now 0-3 with 3 blowout losses. They might be the worst team in the NCAA. I will be really surpised if Clarke ever has a performance like that again.

Not saying the guy stinks, just saying he wouldn't have given us a nat title last year. He probably would have been coming off the bench.
 
capelfan52 said:
Not saying the guy stinks, just saying he wouldn't have given us a nat title last year. He probably would have been coming off the bench.
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The shooter of the bench we so badly needed?

I won't go as far as to say we'd have won the NC with him, but I do think we'd have been a better team. He'd have been a top 4 guard on the team last year.
 
DirtyMess said:
.

Alot of times. Depends on the coach. You've got to understand that alot of times, the AAU coaches get stereotyped as street guys from the innercity and that's true sometimes. in the Late 90s, if you were in Oklahoma, You would have ran across AAU coaches who went on to coach at UCO, OU, Texas A&M, Southern University, Stephen F. Austin, Texas Pan Am, and others. Also, some of the best High School coaches in the state coach AAU teams. Look at David Page and Tommy Griffin. Both coached AF. If you coach with the right guy you can learn alot. Alot of times when you're an assistant on one of these squads you end up doing alot of gophering. Running to get players, transportation and shceduling issues, etc.

There was a coach in Tulsa in the late nineties who was a guy that was a hell of a coach. This guy understood the game inside out. People in Tulsa said that he was better than any high school coach in the Tulsa area, but the fact he didn't go to college really put him behind the eightball in regards of coaching. So their are guys who are organized and do things the right way. However there are still guys like a guy I saw in OKC last year who ran on the court in the middle of the game to give one of his players a chest bump after a made basket or the Illinois Warriors coach who was in the camera saying that he was #1 after his team one the real deal on the hill tourney.
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DM what Tulsa coach are you talking about.

The good team in the 90's in Tulsa was the Hawks. I am talking about the real Tulsa Hawks that had guys like Lee Mayberry, Seals, Humphrey and company on it.

The coaches then were Alan Axley and Mike Bolton. Bolton was a former HS coach. Axley is a good coach too.
 
My underlying point about Clarke being that "if" we have Clarke, THEN we most likely don't have WW.

As far as a shooter off the bench--I thought Cade was supposed to be that guy last year? Maybe moot now anyway? Pledger looks to be dialed in early.
 
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