Sherri is VERY overpaid for her efforts lately.....

[sybarite]

I would suggest that the people I knew who exited were not among the more respected within the local hierarchy of the program. None ever admitted to being terminated. But, they didn't surface elsewhere either, with a couple of exceptions who did end up at small colleges. But, I am not making any implications about what I saw since I had only what comments they made. Strangely enough, I didn't ask questions. I doubt that I would have been granted an interview with the boss. So, it was one-sided.

 

[SoonerSpock]

I disagree only because of the amount of money Sherri is paid. She makes $1 million per year, which makes her the 3rd highest paid coach in the department. Some of that is because the program has had success and it pays for itself, but if she continues to have years like this, the program will go from in the black to in the red.

On top of that, you have big football donors and donors for other sports who don't care about basketball much less womens basketball. Sad, but thats the way it is. At some point if some amenities (new pressbox, stadium upgrades, etc.) don't occur those folks will complain that certain coaches are overpaid and some of that money could be used for upgrades. I have no idea at what point this starts to happen but I know it's happened in the past with other programs.

If she doesn't get a raise after this season then that's a shot across the bow from the admin that she needs to figure it out. I doubt this happens but you never know.

No question Sherri's teams have had a lot of success but her program is a major cost to the athletic department. The last years I have financial data for the athletic department is 2008-09 and 2010-11. During that season the women average attendance is listed as 9,007 which was fourth in the nation behind Tennessee, UConn and Iowa State. For 08-09 fiscal year women's basketball revenue was $1.58 million, 2% of the athletic budget, their expenses were $3.95 million, 5% of the athletic budget. The net was a loss of $2.37 million.

For the 2010-11 the women's revenue was $.937 million and expenses $3.75 million for a loss of $2.81 million. The men's basketball program was also losing a similar amount of money but their revenue was three times the women's revenue and expenses twice as much.

In 2013-14 our tickets sales are down, attendance is down and appearance on national television is down. I am sure revenues are also significantly down and I suspect expenses have increased some in three years if for no other reason than inflation.

 

[sybarite]

You seem to be saying that the losses were the same. But, you seem to be implying that there is an objection. Why?

What is being considered as causes for these losses in revenue? Is it just W-L record? Are there other factors?

It seems that anything that requires attendance is down: events, churches, theater. It also seems that readership is down. A lot of what we used to do is on the decline as we change lifestyles.

Are these other factors considered? We spend money. Is that new for an institution?

 

[Big Old Booger]

No question Sherri's teams have had a lot of success but her program is a major cost to the athletic department. The last years I have financial data for the athletic department is 2008-09 and 2010-11. During that season the women average attendance is listed as 9,007 which was fourth in the nation behind Tennessee, UConn and Iowa State. For 08-09 fiscal year women's basketball revenue was $1.58 million, 2% of the athletic budget, their expenses were $3.95 million, 5% of the athletic budget. The net was a loss of $2.37 million.



For the 2010-11 the women's revenue was $.937 million and expenses $3.75 million for a loss of $2.81 million. The men's basketball program was also losing a similar amount of money but their revenue was three times the women's revenue and expenses twice as much.



In 2013-14 our tickets sales are down, attendance is down and appearance on national television is down. I am sure revenues are also significantly down and I suspect expenses have increased some in three years if for no other reason than inflation.

Thanks for the info! I figured with her high salary the WBB program was in the black but I guess not.

 

[Mac]

For people who would like a new coach or assists coaches at OU, what would you like to see? If Sherri is let go or forced out, we would hope for a big name but that might not happen, we could get someone that started as a assist and I'm not sure that would be the type of coach we need. I think a good start would be for Sherri to start over with her assists, something we've talked about in the past but hasn't happened yet. Pam seems to be a good one at lest she's gotten us back in with some elite top 20 kids, she seems to have deep roots in the state of Florida. It also wouldn't hurt to get a coach from a AAU program to join the staff, one from Texas would be the place to get one, but with the young stars in the classes of 2016 and 2017 a AAU coach from Oklahoma might not be a bad idea. Recruiting seems to be the big problem here, not everyone we sign needs to be top 50 or better, but they should at lest come in give the team something and play hard!

 

[soonerstar]

Mac, the recruiting problem may not lie with the assistants, as Oliver Hardy posted on this thread a couple hours ago. He brought up a good point.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Taken to the extreme, the logic would suggest that if we lost every game, this would be a very active board.

That's about the level of logic that is being put into a lot of the discussions in the aftermath of the OSU game. We don't know. I think if we got Geno in here right now, his first reaction would be "leave me out of this." When something like this happens, it is impossible to explain, at least rationally. Given some time, we may know by this time next year.

It happens. If you are to look at the program and try to figure out what needs to be done, do you leave it up to the amateurs on a message board? For seventeen years, we watched a program that nobody really wanted to exist become a power. We became a respected basketball power. Really? A program that had been the symbol of disgust for cancellation became a respected power?

If we had had any other coach, they would have left us for a gig at Duke, Texas, Stanford, North Carolina, or some other program that was more successful and had more support. Sherri was an Okie, loyal to the city and state. She had been born here, and she took Norman to titles for six years before coming to OU.

I disagree. Sherri is the 5th highest paid coach in WBB according to an article I found from 2011. The coaches above her include Summit, Auriemma, Mulkey and Goestenkors (at Texas not Duke). That's tall cotton. Look at some of the ones below her: Blair (aTm; 1 NC), McGraw (ND; 1 or 2 NC's), Walz (Louisville; 2-3 consecutive final 4's). McGraw makes just over half of Coale's salary. Any coach who could elevate the program would have stuck around because OU rewards them. That's why we've kept the likes of Stoops and Gasso, and why we paid a premium for Kruger. This is just small minded thinking on your part.

The state of women's basketball at the time was such that a successful college coach recommended a highschool coach to OU? Really? A successful college coach even knew who a highschool coach in Norman was? How did he even know her?

We had no recruiting base. Our big early success was due to an unknown, Whaley. We built from nothing and with a department that had been so supportive that it had cancelled the program. Even after years of success, every would-be highschool coach shows up on message boards to criticize every move that she has made.

He knew her from his recruitment of Hansmeyer. He was impressed with her and it's true shes a good to great coach, no doubt. Nobody, certainly not me questions that. Think about the other side, how many name coaches were interested in the job or would have been knowing what a dumpster fire it was? Not many if any at all. So, OU didn't have many options either. It's worked out way better than anyone imagined, this we know but the question is can Sherri live up to being the 5th highest paid coach? To this point, I don't think so she has. Top 10-15 yes, but top 5 no, sorry.

As for recruiting base, Oklahoma has always been one of the better states to produce good womens basketball players. Due to the small population, not a lot of them but certainly enough to fill-in a roster with some good local players (Crystal Robinson, Hansmeyer, Sauer just to name a few). Not to mention Texas just down the road.

It reveals rank stupidity and undeserved arrogance.

Sherri may not know what to do. I don't. I've coached, managed in business, and survived life for seventy years. When I see something like this, you can't be sure what is going on.

No need to address your first sentence other than to say when you point at someone you have 4 fingers pointing back at yourself.

And, where and when did you coach? I don't mean band, I mean basketball. Give us a timeframe and a school or town or metro area.

When I go to boards like The Summit or The Boneyard, the thing I notice is how much support the program and the coach have. It is interesting that most of the local message boards seem to have a lot of hostility for their own coach. Baylor gives a lot of support. While it isn't relevant that message boards, non-entities that they are, be supportive, I wonder if it isn't somewhat indicative of the fan base and the support for the program? I must admit that I would much prefer coaching for a fan base that has The Summit or The Boneyard. Stanford, Duke, and Maryland also have great message boards with good attitudes. Wonder if it helps?

Like it or not, Sherri is the best solution we have. I don't think you are going to get Geno to come to Norman.

Sure, the Summit has lots to be supportive of. They have a gazillion NCs and the new coach picked up where Pat left. Not to mention the circumstances under which she left, sure they are supportive and they should be. Same for Baylor, they have back-to-back and are probably a final 4 team again this year.

Nobody, at least not me, expects Geno to come here. How about we just get Sherri to get it to the next level or make way for a bright young coach who can like the guy at Kentucky? Or the guy at Louisville?

 

[Big Old Booger]

For people who would like a new coach or assists coaches at OU, what would you like to see? If Sherri is let go or forced out, we would hope for a big name but that might not happen, we could get someone that started as a assist and I'm not sure that would be the type of coach we need. I think a good start would be for Sherri to start over with her assists, something we've talked about in the past but hasn't happened yet. Pam seems to be a good one at lest she's gotten us back in with some elite top 20 kids, she seems to have deep roots in the state of Florida. It also wouldn't hurt to get a coach from a AAU program to join the staff, one from Texas would be the place to get one, but with the young stars in the classes of 2016 and 2017 a AAU coach from Oklahoma might not be a bad idea. Recruiting seems to be the big problem here, not everyone we sign needs to be top 50 or better, but they should at lest come in give the team something and play hard!

Sherri is the 5th highest paid coach in WBB.
Oklahoma plays in the best WBB conference.
We have great fan support, as good as any place in the country.
We have a great administration.
Good recruiting base in the state and a few hours away in Texas.

We have a lot to offer if it comes to that, and I would be surprised if we weren't able to hire just about any young up and comer like the guy at Kentucky or the guy at Louisville. Heck, go after Muffet McGraw at ND or the guy at Marist.

I don't want Sherri to leave or be fired so IMO that's not the best option. However, we are paying her way too much for the results we've had the last 10 years. 2 final fours but 4 of those years she had the best player in WBB and only 1 FF to show for it. We have problems that need to be corrected thats for sure.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I agree almost completely with Syb -- in principal. I don't know of anyone on this board, however, calling for Sherri to be fired. Most, including you Syb, hope that she has the will to change some things that seem to be causing the program to decline this year.

I have speculated that, after 18 years, she might be ready to retire or moving in that direction. I think if she resists change this off season or next, then she will leave at 20 years.

As I've said, I think it would be horrible for this program to continue to slide and for this woman who has done so much for players, the program, the university and women's basketball to end up getting fired after two, three or four bad years or forced out. That's an ending Sherri absolutely does not deserve.

I think we all worry (because we like the team and the sport) that such a program slide may be developing. Next season will tell us more.

But it is this offseason most of us are talking about, even you and Ms, Syb. It is THIS offseason that may end up dictating the future of this program like no other since the program was cancelled.

Attendance is down. We aren't getting the top players. Last season, the year before that and this season, the team has had some huge hurdles to try to overcome. It's been a bag of mixed results.

I too have run a business, directed employees, hired and fired. Additionally, I hold a C soccer license and have coached girls and women from 7 to 18 over a 12 year period in my life. I understand to a great deal what Sherri is facing when trying to bring consistency out of young women in their late teens and early to mid 20s. (Reminds me of having to deal with a goalie who at 16 was trying to play while hiding a pregnancy).

It is enough to make you pull your swiftly graying hair out.

I have my ideas on things about Sherri, the players and the program, as everyone who has an interest in the program does.

I was at this point with Stoops last year. And then he acted completely out of character, fired a few buddies and one of the most herald OU football alumni ever and brought in new blood and committed to some really difficult changes -- and low and behold, they worked.

I think we all agree Sherri must do the same thing to achieve past levels of greatness and she must do it quickly. I think we all worry too (including you) that she won't do anything. That possibility is really disturbing to almost everyone.

The players are greatly responsible for what has transpired this season. They are not the only ones, however. Sherri is a head coach. It is her responsibility to direct this program and players to great heights, if at all possible. Everyone shares in the blame.

I do disagree with you that you don't see other boards going off on coaches. Tennessee fans were getting pretty fed up with Pat before the announcement leaked out that she was seriously ill. Even then people posted that she should step down immediately.

Mack Brown would certainly disagree with your line of thinking, as would Travis Ford, Lane Kiffin, a half-dozen former NFL coaches last season, on and on and on.

I will add one statement about something that may be playing a part in this team and program. We have discussed this indirectly in our discussions about religion's impact on this program.

Earlier this year, Geno basically said something to the extent that he didn't care about the personal beliefs or behavior of his players as long as they didn't negatively impact the program. He recruited the best players, religious or not, tatted up or not, bad attitude or not. If they conformed to his rules and NCAA rules and didn't get in trouble, practiced and played well, that was great and that was his only concern.

I do think there's too much family in this program right now and not enough business. That's just my opinion based on remarks that have been made to me by a variety of people and what I see on the court and on social media.

Flame away folks. I do enjoy people complaining about some posters and then turning around and doing the very same thing in a later post or a different thread.

Great post. Some really good info that I think is spot-on in most places.

I disagree that if she doesn't make changes we could start to slide even further. This is just one season. Last year she did a great coaching job to get to the sweet 16 no doubt. That's what makes this year so perplexing.

I also don't think the family atmosphere is a problem. I'd say the biggest problem is recruiting. We have too many girls whom we recruit who couldn't start or play for many programs.

I do agree wholeheartedly with your comparison to Stoops and the football program. We are pretty much at that crossroads as a program. Stoops could have left everything at status quo and we would have still competed for conference championships, but that's not what we want at OU. We want the crystal ball and in womens basketball we want final 4's and NCs. If Baylor can do it, why can't we?

 

[Big Old Booger]

This would fit with numerous stories over the last 3 years that assistants have been pushing her, begging and fighting with her over recruiting to no avail.

I've been told she gives them the go ahead to recruit some players, really good ones often, and then just comes in one day and says stop -- no more contact for no good reason.

I still think that is the mian reason Hansmeyer left so abruptly.

Makes sense. Thanks for the info.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I'm reading a prominent insider board and lots of talk about fans/alumni complaining/grumbling about Sherri's salary and the teams performance.

Should be interesting to see how it turns out but she still has time to turn it around this season and make a run.

 

[Mac]

I'm reading a prominent insider board and lots of talk about fans/alumni complaining/grumbling about Sherri's salary and the teams performance.

Should be interesting to see how it turns out but she still has time to turn it around this season and make a run.

Aaryn being out a few games won't help.

 

[stoopified]

Lon has forgotten more basketball then Sherri has ever known.

Sherri is 24-14 in NCAA play with 3 Final Fours,Lon is 14-14 with 1 Final Four.I tnink you better recheck as to who should give lessons and who should get them .

 

[Vinny78]

Sherri is 24-14 in NCAA play with 3 Final Fours,Lon is 14-14 with 1 Final Four.I tnink you better recheck as to who should give lessons and who should get them .

Stoopified, you must not follow the women's game much. Many of Sherri's wins have come at home as the women can't draw away from a popular team. If Lon had played his games at home he would have alot better record and a few more final fours I believe. Lon has shown great success at 5 Universities, Sherri only one. I think if you watch the game, you can see Lon is OBVIOUSLY the much better coach, no brainer.

 

[garyeb2]

Sherri is 24-14 in NCAA play with 3 Final Fours,Lon is 14-14 with 1 Final Four.I tnink you better recheck as to who should give lessons and who should get them .

How many relatives does Sherri have posting on the board?

 

[Vinny78]

And almost ALL women's coaches couldn't make it in the men's game bty. Not a sexist statement (as many women's teams have MEN as coaches) just a fact.

 

[stoopified]

And almost ALL women's coaches couldn't make it in the men's game bty. Not a sexist statement (as many women's teams have MEN as coaches) just a fact.

Coach K is on record as saying top women's bball coaches (and he mentioned Sherri by name )could coach men.

 

[garyeb2]

Coach K is on record as saying top women's bball coaches (and he mentioned Sherri by name )could coach men.

If anyone that really mattered actually thought that, the top women's coaches would be routinely hired to coach men's teams. Sherri was right here on campus when they hired Kruger. I'm sure she would have been glad to get the $1,000,000 a year pay raise.

 

[stoopified]

Stoopified, you must not follow the women's game much. Many of Sherri's wins have come at home as the women can't draw away from a popular team. If Lon had played his games at home he would have alot better record and a few more final fours I believe. Lon has shown great success at 5 Universities, Sherri only one. I think if you watch the game, you can see Lon is OBVIOUSLY the much better coach, no brainer.

I have noearthly idea what you are talking and it is clear you don't either Sherri does have pud noncon slates like Tubbs,Sampson or Kruger set up,she plays top 10 every year,dodging nobody.You do realize this year ranked #6 SOS. If Sherri played cupcakes like many coaches male and female, she would have more wins.

Not enough postseason sucess? She has 24 NCAA tourney wins in 14 trips,OU's two winningest male coaches (Tubbs,Sampson) combined for 26 wins in 20 NCAA trips.Sherri Has # FF ,the same as Tubbs,Sampson combined.If Sherri is over paid how long does Lon have to win conference titles,get to FFs before he is run out of town as a hack.You might note Kruger has only i FF in his 30 +seasons.
Lon had the advantage of coaching at schools like Illinois,Florida.Unl year career

 

[sybarite]

I have noearthly idea what you are talking and it is clear you don't either Sherri does have pud noncon slates like Tubbs,Sampson or Kruger set up,she plays top 10 every year,dodging nobody.You do realize this year ranked #6 SOS. If Sherri played cupcakes like many coaches male and female, she would have more wins.

Not enough postseason sucess? She has 24 NCAA tourney wins in 14 trips,OU's two winningest male coaches (Tubbs,Sampson) combined for 26 wins in 20 NCAA trips.Sherri Has # FF ,the same as Tubbs,Sampson combined.If Sherri is over paid how long does Lon have to win conference titles,get to FFs before he is run out of town as a hack.You might note Kruger has only i FF in his 30 +seasons.
Lon had the advantage of coaching at schools like Illinois,Florida.Unl year career

+1
There is a reason that I have these refugees from the men's board on Ignore. We welcome responsible posters from the men's board, but not sexists.

Coach K and John Wooden know more than about anyone they can name, and they knew what good coaching was, which is why Wooden preferred watching the women's game.