Skill vs. Athletic ability

This is exactly what he needs. Kruger has a great reputation with anything and everything related to guard play. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that Lon hire an assistant that can develop today's bigs? Or, maybe OU could spring for the cash to send him to a big man camp? HAHA.

In all seriousness, i'm like you I see a kid that wants very badly to be good and contribute, and maybe even be a star. He has the potential. But he can't stay in the game because he's not being developed. None of the bigs are.

Could you imagine the team's potential if they had a guy inside that could average 15 and 10 and a backup that could go 8 or 9 and 6? Nevermind, I just woke up.

I’d love to see stats on how many teams have two players who meet the criteria in your final paragraph. My guess is that the answer is closer to zero than 10.
 
This is exactly what he needs. Kruger has a great reputation with anything and everything related to guard play. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that Lon hire an assistant that can develop today's bigs? Or, maybe OU could spring for the cash to send him to a big man camp? HAHA.

In all seriousness, i'm like you I see a kid that wants very badly to be good and contribute, and maybe even be a star. He has the potential. But he can't stay in the game because he's not being developed. None of the bigs are.

Could you imagine the team's potential if they had a guy inside that could average 15 and 10 and a backup that could go 8 or 9 and 6? Nevermind, I just woke up.

There is currently 1 player playing P5 that averages 10+ rebounds per game. You just don't see that anymore. I think it's too early to judge Vic, if by next year when he sees his minutes go up then I'll start to worry.

But to your point, absolutely the big man development has been below average since Lew Hill left.
 
I’d love to see stats on how many teams have two players who meet the criteria in your final paragraph. My guess is that the answer is closer to zero than 10.

So what? Even if you were right.. OU's are 10 and 5(barely) and 5 and 4. The 10 and 5 also plays matador defense, so that's something else too we have going for us!
 
There is currently 1 player playing P5 that averages 10+ rebounds per game. You just don't see that anymore. I think it's too early to judge Vic, if by next year when he sees his minutes go up then I'll start to worry.

But to your point, absolutely the big man development has been below average since Lew Hill left.

Thank you. That's really all I was trying to say.. With some emphasis. Hey, with a really good, talented, developed big I wouldn't put getting those numbers past someone, on this team. Because there sure as hell are alot of rebounds to be had!
 
Just need some more guys who can potentially contribute and not projects.

Matt Mayers (6'8'' 210 - Hutchinson CC)
Averaging 21 and 11 for Hutchinson CC in Kansas this year. Shoots 67% from the field and 42% from the 3pt line. He recently just had 44 points and 16 rebounds against a a Cowley team with a few D1 players on roster.

Dalen Ridgnal (6'6' 200 - Cowley CC)
Averaging 22 and 14 for Cowley CC in Kansas. Big time athlete. Been a top rebounder in juco two years in a row, especially offensive rebounding.

Kur is leaving... we will see what happens with Issanza, Garang, and other seniors. As a 7'1'' 250 high school kid, Issanza averaged 10 a game. Come on man....

By the way.... anyone notice Taz Sherman over WVU? From right down the road. He had 26 yesterday against the best guards in the country. Yea, no juco talent around to help. Keep telling yourselves that.
 
By the way.... anyone notice Taz Sherman over WVU? From right down the road. He had 26 yesterday against the best guards in the country. Yea, no juco talent around to help. Keep telling yourselves that.

I think the conventional wisdom on this board is the juco route is more of a hit and miss proposition as compared to years past. And you're taking this way too personally.
 
I think the conventional wisdom on this board is the juco route is more of a hit and miss proposition as compared to years past. And you're taking this way too personally.

Because I am right.... and I am passionate about being right. :)
 
Just need some more guys who can potentially contribute and not projects.

Matt Mayers (6'8'' 210 - Hutchinson CC)
Averaging 21 and 11 for Hutchinson CC in Kansas this year. Shoots 67% from the field and 42% from the 3pt line. He recently just had 44 points and 16 rebounds against a a Cowley team with a few D1 players on roster.

Dalen Ridgnal (6'6' 200 - Cowley CC)
Averaging 22 and 14 for Cowley CC in Kansas. Big time athlete. Been a top rebounder in juco two years in a row, especially offensive rebounding.

Kur is leaving... we will see what happens with Issanza, Garang, and other seniors. As a 7'1'' 250 high school kid, Issanza averaged 10 a game. Come on man....

By the way.... anyone notice Taz Sherman over WVU? From right down the road. He had 26 yesterday against the best guards in the country. Yea, no juco talent around to help. Keep telling yourselves that.

You mean the guy who had 5, 2, & 2 vs OU? Or the guy who shoots a worse fg% than Reaves but averages 1.9 rbg & 1.2 apg & draws worst offensive player on defense. He'd battle Gibson as the 4th guard, but Gibson is a junior & a better defender. Also Sherman didn't have a good year last year so you basically are getting one solid year from a 2 year juco recruit.
 
On Vic, Lon gets a pass with me too. His athleticism is off the charts and he has above average potential. All he needs is more experience and a coach who can help him develop his game. It’s obvious Vic wants to be good. That’s another thing I like about him.

I understand..but how long? I mean he's been here 2 yrs....IF we didn't have covid he'd be a jr next yr.

I understand athleticism...but if it takes 3-4 yrs to get the kid to be an actual "basketball player" is it worth it?

SOMETIMES the length of development just isn't worth it..IMHO
 
I understand..but how long? I mean he's been here 2 yrs....IF we didn't have covid he'd be a jr next yr.

I understand athleticism...but if it takes 3-4 yrs to get the kid to be an actual "basketball player" is it worth it?

SOMETIMES the length of development just isn't worth it..IMHO

I’m still optimistic about Victor. He has the basic tools (desire to be good, athleticism, by all accounts coachable, work ethic, etc.). If he has a breakout season next year, which I believe is highly likely, he will be worth the wait.

It’s players that are brought into the program to occupy a scholarship for two years or more but contribute absolutely nothing worthwhile I’ve got a problem with. I could add the names of at least two in the last couple of years, but I’ll leave that part blank for now.
 
I understand..but how long? I mean he's been here 2 yrs....IF we didn't have covid he'd be a jr next yr.

I understand athleticism...but if it takes 3-4 yrs to get the kid to be an actual "basketball player" is it worth it?

SOMETIMES the length of development just isn't worth it..IMHO

That is how I feel as well. I think OU can afford to have one guy like that on scholarship to take a chance on, but we've frequently had multiple guys like that on scholarship. I'd argue Iwuakor, Garang, and Issanza all meet that description. That is three guys that don't contribute much, and may not every contribute much.
 
That is how I feel as well. I think OU can afford to have one guy like that on scholarship to take a chance on, but we've frequently had multiple guys like that on scholarship. I'd argue Iwuakor, Garang, and Issanza all meet that description. That is three guys that don't contribute much, and may not every contribute much.

Garang and Issanza are freshmen. IMO, it’s way too early to throw in the towel on them. However, if they follow in the same path as Polla and Merritt, the two players I was talking about, that would be a major blow to our program.

I truly hope you’re wrong about them. Two players who didn’t contribute much except occupy locker space and valuable scholarships is bad enough. Four would be inexcusable.
 
Garang and Issanza are freshmen. IMO, it’s way too early to throw in the towel on them. However, if they follow in the same path as Polla and Merritt, the two players I was talking about, that would be a major blow to our program.

I truly hope you’re wrong about them. Two players who didn’t contribute much except occupy locker space and valuable scholarships is bad enough. Four would be inexcusable.

They are redshirt freshman... meaning they've been here 2 years now. Smart bet is to expect nothing from them, especially Issanza.

You mean the guy who had 5, 2, & 2 vs OU? Or the guy who shoots a worse fg% than Reaves but averages 1.9 rbg & 1.2 apg & draws worst offensive player on defense. He'd battle Gibson as the 4th guard, but Gibson is a junior & a better defender. Also Sherman didn't have a good year last year so you basically are getting one solid year from a 2 year juco recruit.

This is an insane response.... First off, he had 19 in the first game against OU. So picking out one game from a guy who averages 14 for a top 10 team is silly at best.

Lots of our guys can't even get on the floor. To act like it would be a waste of our time to have a guy like that makes absolutely no sense.

Gibson and Harkless are really good players, both of them... But right now OU is surviving on transfers from other D1 schools. There is a difference between who Kruger recruits in the traditional way and who he lands in the D1 transfer market.

Thank goodness Reaves, Gibson, and Harkless didn't like their situations at Wichita State, North Texas, and Cal State North-Ridge and ended up here.
 
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They are redshirt freshman... meaning they've been here 2 years now. Smart bet is to expect nothing from them, especially Issanza.

I know they’re redshirt freshmen. Since this season didn’t count toward their eligibility, to me that means they still have threes years left to play, unless they transfer or leave early for the NBA draft of course. Why should we expect nothing from them? Issanza is a 7 footer. Do you know enough about them to make that claim? I sure don’t, which was my reason for saying it’s too early to throw in the towel.
 
I know they’re redshirt freshmen. Since this season didn’t count toward their eligibility, to me that means they still have threes years left to play, unless they transfer or leave early for the NBA draft of course. Why should we expect nothing from them? Issanza is a 7 footer. Do you know enough about them to make that claim? I sure don’t, which was my reason for saying it’s too early to throw in the towel.


Early morning chuckles are the best. Umm......you don't have an extra jelly doughnut lying around? I'll provide the napkin.
 
Vic needs to be more reliable in the day to day things expected of the players. Then Saturday is gets in and has several opportunities to finish and doesn’t get it done. It limits playing time.
Kur was huge on Saturday. Monday Brady gets off to a great start. Kur finally comes in and turns it over at the top of the key twice. Osu doesn’t play more than one big ever so can’t play Brady and Kur together.
Jalen had a bad weekend.
Osu is very athletic and play uncontrolled except Cunningham. They turn it over but their opponents seem to match. They frequently make games look like an AAU game. Sloppy turnovers all over the place. They have several guys who aren’t great basketball players yet but are quick and long arms. Both games they banked in three point attempts.
Cade beat us Saturday when we singled him up. He hit great shots better than he has shot all year. Monday we double and he passes great and Boone is to quick for Brady without congestion in the lane. My preference would be Saturday’s style and take our chances. We had chances to turn him over several other times and ball bounced to them or he dives forward and pushes our guy away from the ball. He was in foul trouble early in the conference season. The last month he has 1-2 fouls a game.
 
Vic needs to be more reliable in the day to day things expected of the players. Then Saturday is gets in and has several opportunities to finish and doesn’t get it done. It limits playing time.
Kur was huge on Saturday. Monday Brady gets off to a great start. Kur finally comes in and turns it over at the top of the key twice. Osu doesn’t play more than one big ever so can’t play Brady and Kur together.
Jalen had a bad weekend.
Osu is very athletic and play uncontrolled except Cunningham. They turn it over but their opponents seem to match. They frequently make games look like an AAU game. Sloppy turnovers all over the place. They have several guys who aren’t great basketball players yet but are quick and long arms. Both games they banked in three point attempts.
Cade beat us Saturday when we singled him up. He hit great shots better than he has shot all year. Monday we double and he passes great and Boone is to quick for Brady without congestion in the lane. My preference would be Saturday’s style and take our chances. We had chances to turn him over several other times and ball bounced to them or he dives forward and pushes our guy away from the ball. He was in foul trouble early in the conference season. The last month he has 1-2 fouls a game.

Every point here is dead on, although I certainly don’t have the inside scoop you do regarding Vic. But as far as the on court stuff, I agree completely with everything here and it’s what I thought watching the games. The one thing I may differ on is whether it is best to double Cade. I’d go into a game planning to single him with EJ and take your chances, but by late in Saturday’s game, I was in favor of doing everything possible to get the ball out of his hands and force others to make enough shots to beat us.
 
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