Slumming @ OrangePower

[oSuJeff97]

Perhaps you're right about UConn, but I'm curious what other OSU fans think of your bench that year. You only mentioned one decent player (Graham), and he turned out better than anyone could imagine - but I don't remember you guys getting much from him until the following year. Regardless, I think we can agree that was a great starting 5 you guys had.

Well those guys were bench players, so they obviously weren't as good as the starters. They didn't start for a reason.

But the top four players off the bench averaged the following minutes per game:

J. Weatherspoon (Sr.) - 14.9
J. Miller (Sr.) - 11.3
T. Crawford (Jr.) - 11.1
S. Graham (Jr.) - 8.0

That's a total contribution of 45.3 minutes per game from our top 4 players off the bench.

None of these guys had stats that would blow you away, but they all had very specific roles that they played very well. Notice also that they were all upper-classmen.

I think that's exactly what you want from your bench players -- experienced guys who know their roles and can come in and "hold down the fort" while you give your starters a rest.

 

[soonerbms]

The 3-seeds were killers. Lost to Purdue in 2000 and Utah in 2005. The one that haunts me to this day is the 2000 loss. The West regional completely fell apart after that game. It ended up being 6-seeded Purdue and 8-seeded Wisconsin in the Elite 8.

I've blocked most of the Purdue game from memory, but I still remember that very questionable foul on the 3-point attempt late in the game. Seems to me we were tied at the time.....

Interestingly enough, the loss to Purdue in 2000 and the loss to Utah in 2005 took place in Tucson. We're just cursed in Memphis and Tucson when it comes to the tourney!

 

[stoops4pres]

Yeah... 1-seeds are kind of pointless if you don't reach the Final Four, right?

Since they're so "pointless", let's just not have a regular season and just start the season with the NCAA Tournament. In fact, since they're so pointless lets just consider every great season that a team has meaningless, since it's "pointless" if they don't reach the Final Four. Never mind the great wins and accomplishments that a team has garnered in the regular season, if they don't make the Final Four, its pointless.

 

[stoops4pres]

I am sure someone could do the exact same thing for Wilkinson and Switzer

I agree with you that Sutton doesn't need to explain himself, but for a coach that never won a National Title, you comparing him to coaches that have won multiple titles with Switzer and Wilkinson to help your argument is reaching a little bit, don't you think?

 

[oSuJeff97]

Since they're so "pointless", let's just not have a regular season and just start the season with the NCAA Tournament. In fact, since they're so pointless lets just consider every great season that a team has meaningless, since it's "pointless" if they don't reach the Final Four. Never mind the great wins and accomplishments that a team has garnered in the regular season, if they don't make the Final Four, its pointless.

Once again, you've completely and totally missed the point.

Maybe instead of being in a huge rush to argue with me or make snarky comments about my posts simply because I'm an OSU fan, you should... you know... actually read my posts and try and understand the point is being made before you hit "reply."

One-seeds obviously are a nice accomplishment, but actually reaching the Final Four, regardless of seed, is a far greater accomplishment.

Surely you would agree with that. But maybe not... I mean... I am an OSU fan and everything.

:eddie187_jpg_xs:

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Once again, you've completely and totally missed the point.

Maybe instead of being in a huge rush to argue with me or make snarky comments about my posts simply because I'm an OSU fan, you should... you know... actually read my posts and try and understand the point is being made before you hit "reply."

One-seeds obviously are a nice accomplishment, but actually reaching the Final Four, regardless of seed, is a far greater accomplishment.

Surely you would agree with that. But maybe not... I mean... I am an OSU fan and everything.

:eddie187_jpg_xs:

You sure throw the "comprehension smack" out quite often challenging other people's intelligence; have you ever considered that maybe you are the one that has trouble making clear points when you write? Personally, I think that is the real problem, not that everybody else is stupid or can't read or hates you because you (presumabely) went to oSu, you just are not a clear writer. FWIW, the smartest guy I know has the same problem.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

I agree with you that Sutton doesn't need to explain himself, but for a coach that never won a National Title, you comparing him to coaches that have won multiple titles with Switzer and Wilkinson to help your argument is reaching a little bit, don't you think?

I said parallels between Sutton and Switzer, not parallels between Sutton and Wilkinson/Switzer.

The implication by BOTH the OU and OSU Fans in this thread (I would think) has more to do with off the field/court situations with Sutton and Switzer, addition to success on the court. No one is taking anything away from Bud & Barry.

Iba and Wilkinson on the other hand, makes for a very nice little comparison in terms of on the field/court success.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I said parallels between Sutton and Switzer, not parallels between Sutton and Wilkinson/Switzer.

The implication by BOTH the OU and OSU Fans in this thread (I would think) has more to do with off the field/court situations with Sutton and Switzer, addition to success on the court. No one is taking anything away from Bud & Barry.

Iba and Wilkinson on the other hand, makes for a very nice little comparison in terms of on the field/court success.

Off the field/court, and on the field/court for that matter, their is no comparison between Barry and Eddie.

The only way their lives could be compared is both lived in Arkansas for a period of time. Barry was born there and went to school at U of A and Eddie coached at U of A. That's it.

Barry was way more successful with 3 national titles and countless conference championships in addition to a super bowl championship. Barry was the winningest coach in the Big 8 when he retired.

Eddie won a few conference championships and won a lot of games. Eddie was the 3rd or 4th winningest coach in the Big 12 when he retired (behind Roy Williams and Kelvin Sampson, and maybe behind Rick Barnes as far as winning % goes).

Barry was caught paying for a player to fly home to his parents funeral. Eddie sent a money inducement via fedex to a hs player and was caught.

Barry was detained at the airport for carrying a gun in his suitcase. Eddie just about killed a person because he was drunk driving on his way to catch the team plane.

yes...lots of parallels...yeesh!

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I said parallels between Sutton and Switzer, not parallels between Sutton and Wilkinson/Switzer.

The implication by BOTH the OU and OSU Fans in this thread (I would think) has more to do with off the field/court situations with Sutton and Switzer, addition to success on the court. No one is taking anything away from Bud & Barry.

Iba and Wilkinson on the other hand, makes for a very nice little comparison in terms of on the field/court success.

Off-field issues, not on-field. Both won plenty to be first ballot HOF guys, and both do not seem to be respected nationally for the way they got those wins or handled themselves.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Off-field issues, not on-field. Both won plenty to be first ballot HOF guys, and both do not seem to be respected nationally for the way they got those wins or handled themselves.

Again, I agree completely with you assessment.

Both Fan Bases love their respective Coaches, and look past their flaws despite the fact that both have tarnished reputations Nationally. Both mean a tremendous amount to their Schools, Switzer to OU, Sutton to OSU.

The relationship between the Schools and the 2 Coaches, in addition to the National perception is strongly correlated. Both made major mistakes, and both deserve better due to what they accomplished on the field/court.

 

[stoops4pres]

Once again, you've completely and totally missed the point.

Even if I did miss your point--which I didn't, I disagreed with what you said to make your point--when have I ever missed your point beforehand? This should be interesting...

Maybe instead of being in a huge rush to argue with me or make snarky comments about my posts simply because I'm an OSU fan,

LOL, you're absolutely right. I was in such a rush to argue with you.... You have no idea.

Did it occur to you that I argued with you because what you said to enhance your post seemed foolish? If it were an OU fan I would have been saying the same thing, so don't get it twisted.

Notice how I DIDN'T disagree with you that going to the Final 4 regardless of seed trumps getting a 1 seed and not reaching the Final 4... I agreed with you despite that you're--GASP--an Ok. State fan.

What you're wrong about was saying that 1 seeds were "pointless"... Because they aren't. You even contradicted yourself when you recanted in your reply to me when you said they were a nice accomplishment.

So no, I didn't misread your point. You just didn't choose a good way of making it.

 

[stoops4pres]

I said parallels between Sutton and Switzer, not parallels between Sutton and Wilkinson/Switzer.

You said, "I am sure someone could do the exact same thing for Wilkinson AND Switzer." That looks like you are trying to compare Sutton to both from what you said... Either you didn't mean to type Wilkinson or I could have misunderstood you. If I misunderstood you then my bad.

I agree with Iba and Wilkinson, they are comparable.

 

[Big Old Booger]

You said, "I am sure someone could do the exact same thing for Wilkinson AND Switzer." That looks like you are trying to compare Sutton to both from what you said... Either you didn't mean to type Wilkinson or I could have misunderstood you. If I misunderstood you then my bad.

I agree with Iba and Wilkinson, they are comparable.

It's a reach, but they are certainly more comparable than Sutton and Switzer.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

It's a reach, but they are certainly more comparable than Sutton and Switzer.

Both are big time cheaters and neither of their peer groups respect(ed) their on the field (court) accomplishments because of it.

That said, Switzer has 3 college championships and 1 professional championship. Eddie has jack.

 

[oSuJeff97]

You sure throw the "comprehension smack" out quite often challenging other people's intelligence; have you ever considered that maybe you are the one that has trouble making clear points when you write? Personally, I think that is the real problem, not that everybody else is stupid or can't read or hates you because you (presumabely) went to oSu, you just are not a clear writer. FWIW, the smartest guy I know has the same problem.

I considered it, but then decided since it was generally one poster who consistently has the comprehension problem, it wasn't me.

 

[Sooner04]

I go watch some NCAA games in OKC yesterday and this thread goes all to hell.

I wouldn't worry too much about O-State's bench in '04, mainly because.........who needs 'em? When you've got a starting five that good (sans Bobik.....yeesh) your bench doesn't have to be a force. Our best team ever went six deep at the most. Yeah, we played a few guys, but when it was time to go to work it was Ricky, Mookie, Dave, Harvey and Stacey.

 

[oSuJeff97]

(sans Bobik.....yeesh)

Again I'm curious what you think was wrong with Bobik.

He wasn't NBA talent, but he was an excellent college basketball player.

He shot 40%+ from 3-point range, could distribute, hardly ever turned it over (3.0 assist/TO ratio) and could also defend. He was extremely versatile... capable of playing 3 different positions.

He would have been a starter on every Big 12 team back in 2004-05.

Heck, he was a starter on a team that went 30-4 and made the Final Four.

 

[stoops4pres]

You sure throw the "comprehension smack" out quite often challenging other people's intelligence; have you ever considered that maybe you are the one that has trouble making clear points when you write?

:clap