So is This The Consensus???

[152219]

Is 17-15 with an NIT better than 12-18 or 14-18?

Nobody here was happy with NIT berths except in 82 because back then we had hardly ever played in postseason play and in 2004 because we had a young injury-riddled team.

If I have to choose between NIT and a losing season, I'd take an NIT any day and hope it helps the next team to be better with the extra practice.

Is it better? Slightly...and very slightly IMO. The extra practice and game experiences are the benefits. But, I already posted that.

 

[152219]

saying "it's all about championships" in basketball is the most idiotic position on the planet.

if that is actually the case then 300 teams should just give up the sport. in fact, it's the "all about championships" mentality that some have that hurts the sport.

it's about playing the game and playing it well. you don't have to win the NCAA's to play it and play it well.

it's about getting better. it's about using the opportunities given to make yourself better in the sport and personally.

it's about providing entertainment even aside from the NC game. it's about MANY things other than winning the ncaa's.

So, it is only retarded to think that for basketball but not football or any other sport?

 

[coolm]

So, it is only retarded to think that for basketball but not football or any other sport?

read in whatever you want. you said that, I didn't.

instead of trying to nitpick why don't you just address the point?

 

[152219]

read in whatever you want. you said that, I didn't.

instead of trying to nitpick why don't you just address the point?

Address what point...do you have one?

 

[coolm]

Address what point...do you have one?

next time I will try to type slower so you can understand.

 

[greenbug]

So, it is only retarded to think that for basketball but not football or any other sport?

The ultimate goal should always be championships. If that means you fall short and win 28 and go to the elite 8. Then you can still say you had a great year.
I don't understand some people's mindset of not wanting to shoot for titles in BB at OU.

 

[152219]

next time I will try to type slower so you can understand.

Maybe you can show off your participation ribbons

 

[152219]

The ultimate goal should always be championships. If that means you fall short and win 28 and go to the elite 8. Then you can still say you had a great year.
I don't understand some people's mindset of not wanting to shoot for titles in BB at OU.

That is how I feel. Not winning the championship doesn't mean you had a bad year just that the #1 goal wasn't met. The 1988 team had a stupendous year and is the best hoops team in the school's history, but do you think those guys are completely satisfied with their year?

 

[AdaSooner]

You can win a lot of games with superior talent, something OU has never been able to put on the floor year after year. We are not a school that gets our pick of the top recruits. That's one of the many reasons why defense is so important. You can teach reasonably intelligent kids who want to learn and play hard how to defend. You can't teach them how to be great shooters or out-athlete every team we play. We relied way too much on perimeter shooting when Blake wasn't around, and it cost us dearly.

 

[coolm]

The ultimate goal should always be championships. If that means you fall short and win 28 and go to the elite 8. Then you can still say you had a great year.
I don't understand some people's mindset of not wanting to shoot for titles in BB at OU.

more realism and less 25 cent psychology.

"shoot for" means absolutely nothing. that insinuates you work harder than you would otherwise. if that's the case then the coach isn't being successful. you leave it on the floor for every practice and game...not just the "important' ones because you have decided to "shoot for the title".

 

[NickZepp]

I was really too young for the best of Billy Tubbs. I've just watched a few old games. But if you watch any up tempo team now. None are near like Tubbs was, but if you look at UNC in the past, they go up and down the court because of defense forcing turnovers.

Just to show how good Tubbs teams were at this in 2 years Mookie Blaylock set the OU steals record that will probably never be touched. The closest we came under Kelvin's defensive minded teams was Hollis with almost 60 less steals. Mookie averaged almost 4 steals a game.

 

[Big Old Booger]

The ultimate goal should always be championships. If that means you fall short and win 28 and go to the elite 8. Then you can still say you had a great year.
I don't understand some people's mindset of not wanting to shoot for titles in BB at OU.

Who says we don't want to shoot for titles in basketball? You said that.

I'm old enough to remember when the NCAA tournament only took 32 teams and OU was sitting at home after the first weekend in March (that used to be when the conference tournament was played).

Anybody who claims they don't want to go back to Kelvin ball is severely misguided. I don't care what style of basketball we play as long as we win. We could win 4-2 and I would be happy and you would think anybody after the last 2 years would be happy with this. However, some of you guys who I would consider a younger crowd who got spoiled off the success of the coach who you don't want to go back to (Kelvin) just kill me sometimes.

I know posters on here who claimed they would be happy with 2 or 3 losing seasons if it meant an elite 8 either before or after the 2-3 losing seasons or both. I just don't get that.

It's fans like this that part of me wishes they could see what it's like to have a losing program (because now days you have to have a losing program to not make the post season) every year just so they would know what it's like.

 

[AdaSooner]

Ada you made my point in that it needs to be a combo of tough-nosed D and then get your ass up the floor to score. This does not mean jacking up bad and undisplined shots. However, playing fast puts pressure on the other team's D. It forces them to get back on transition. It makes it difficult for them to set up thier D.

I'm with you there, greenbug. I'll take fast-action, up-tempo offense any ol' day over walk-it-up-the-floor and settle into boring half-court sets on every possession.

Problem is, you're not going to win many games if that is your primary focus. For one thing, you've got to have the right players to run, shoot and score, meaning you need really good ball handlers who don't turn the ball over much, great shooters who can pull up and pop, and players who can drive and finish. Does anything I just said describe the team we saw this year?
The players we had this year didn't even look like a team until about three-fourths of the way through the season when they finally started to play better defense.

I say again, good defense is key, unless you're one of those fortunate schools that simply reloads every year by recruiting the nation's top talent. OU is not one of those schools.

 

[coolm]

you guys who want to talk about Billy's defense have zero clue how he dominated games.

he RAN people off the court. literally, not figuratively. he tried to wear the other side out and even turned the heat up (literally again) in order to affect them.

when his style attracted top players then he also led in some defensive categories. He was NOT a defensive coach ... he'll even admit that. He only pressed to increase tempo and later discovered it could also yield a few more possessions when he had the players to make it hypereffective.

KELVIN was defense...BILLY was offense.

 

[152219]

you guys who want to talk about Billy's defense have zero clue how he dominated games.

he RAN people off the court. literally, not figuratively. he tried to wear the other side out and even turned the heat up (literally again) in order to affect them.

when his style attracted top players then he also led in some defensive categories. He was NOT a defensive coach ... he'll even admit that. He only pressed to increase tempo and later discovered it could also yield a few more possessions when he had the players to make it hypereffective.

KELVIN was defense...BILLY was offense.

I agree. And I also agree that OU needs a coach who is fundamentally sound on the defensive end. One thing I always admired about Sampson was his ability to coach team defense and instill in his guys the will to hustle (which most coaches cannot do). There aren't many college coaches that did those two things better when he was OU's coach.

 

[Dr Sleep]

you guys who want to talk about Billy's defense have zero clue how he dominated games.

he RAN people off the court. literally, not figuratively. he tried to wear the other side out and even turned the heat up (literally again) in order to affect them.

when his style attracted top players then he also led in some defensive categories. He was NOT a defensive coach ... he'll even admit that. He only pressed to increase tempo and later discovered it could also yield a few more possessions when he had the players to make it hypereffective.

KELVIN was defense...BILLY was offense.

I don't think this is entirely true. If Billy was offense,then why did our offense bog down in half court games.

Better to say Billy Ball was a full court game. Defend the ball where-ever it is and push the ball up before the defenses get 100% set. I would not say Bill was offense, because that press was hard to break. The running out of the gym was very true.

PS: I would love to get Billy Ball back. I know Billy Ball died here because we lost our athletes to academic causalties, there seems to be a dearth of coaches that run it, and don't know it can be revived here.

 

[NotsoyoungJeezy]

I want a coach that will demand offensive rebounds. I am so damn tired of one guy shooting and the other 4 players are 15 feet from the basket.

 

[soonernutt]

People are just getting stupid about this now.

Well said.

Right about now, just give me a coach who knows what system he wants to run, can fill it with players who fit that system, and can competently coach it. Tempo is way down on my list of concerns at this point. Tempo doesn't win games. Execution does. Whatever system you run, you'd better be able to run it well and it had better match your players abilities.

 

[NickZepp]

Well said.

Right about now, just give me a coach who knows what system he wants to run, can fill it with players who fit that system, and can competently coach it. Tempo is way down on my list of concerns at this point. Tempo doesn't win games. Execution does. Whatever system you run, you'd better be able to run it well and it had better match your players abilities.

This is correct. We never really knew what tempo or system Jeff Capel wanted to run.

 

[Tundrasooner]

Tubbs was actually a very good defensive coach. But when you push the ball like they did your going to give up points on the other end as well.
I remember in 1988 in the NCAA tournament the commentators were discussing that very topic and they stated that other coaches had told them how good defensively OU was and that tubbs didn't get near enough credi for being a very good defensive coach.

I guess they had zero clue also...