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- Thread starter Sooner Cal
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Today's game was sobering. I found myself wondering what on earth is Sherry doing. And her assistants are the quietest bunch I've ever seen. Then there'/ our upperclassmen. There's no leadership in that bunch.
It became painfully obvious that the Sooners were going to lose as the second half progressed. But there was no sense of urgency on the coaching staff, no emotions evident from the upperclassmen. I had to conclude the whole bunch mailed it in.
If the seniors cared, I didn't see it. If the juniors cared, there wasn'5 much to show of it. Dungee played the way I'd like to see them all play. I'd have her on the court for 34 minutes or more.
I heard Peyton on the radio. She said she knew it was her last year so she wanted to take it all in. That'S fine, but I'd want to win too. She should be the leader, vocal and demanding, but apparently that's not her personality. I wish it was.
The fellow who sits behind me apparently agrees, we are paying this staff way to much money for what they are producing. For example, the mistakes Nancy makes are post play 101. What are we doing to develop her? She has obvious potential to be very good.
I could be wrong, but I think these are great young women. I also think they are nice first and competitive second. On the court, it should be the other way around.
Maybe it's time for a change. Sherry's been a blessing for OU, but she'S been doing this a long time. Worse, she hasn't brought in an assistant worthy to replace her. Joe is probably scared to push her out. I would have no problem doing it.
To get back to the primary topic of this thread...and I preface with JMHO. I've come to the conclusion that, for whatever reason(s), the WBB program at OU has the permission/flexibility to operate with what appears to be a mission, objectives and goals that are the complete antithesis of their successful peers. But not only their WBB peers across the NCAA spectrum, but internally as well. Per the 2015-2016 athletic annual report, the overall athletic department has the following mission and vision...
VISION:
To be the preferred destination for student-athletes, staff and
fans to pursue championships in sport and in life.
MISSION:
Through developing leaders and inspiring champions,
we create Sooner Magic
(Note: Their definition of "Sooner Magic" is Masterful, Accountable, Gracious, Inclusive, Competitive)
https://admin.xosn.com/pdf9/4989107.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=31000
JMHO, but I can't see where this has been on the radar of WBB since about 2007. Yes, they had success at the level of the department vision and mission through 2010 but to ensure the continuance of the vision and mission, the work (recruiting, player and staff development, etc) has to implemented 3-4 years prior to the expected results.
ON THE OTHER HAND...the 2005-2006 annual report had a different outlook. And a different face that represented their mission and core values. You won't be surprised when you visit the link below. What happened?
http://www.soonersports.com/fls/31000/old_site/pdf/genrel/2005_06_annual_report.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=31000
I'm just saying...
Well, bay, you've been saying it since Courtney left.
Since 2007?
---you do realize that OU went to the Final Four in 2009 and 2010?
---we did it in 2010 despite having graduated Courtney and Ashley and after losing a key returning starter, Whitney Hand, after five games due to an ACL.
2011: we had lost the entire Parade All-American four (Courtney, Ashley, Abi, and Amanda). Meanwhile, Hand was back, but her shooting percentages were down about ten percent. We had to rebuild our interior after having a strong interior for five years. We did make the Sweet Sixteen.
2012: Without DRob now. But, we still made it to the round of 32.
2013: Lost two starters due to ACL tears after the sixth and ninth games, both averaging double figures. Yet, we went to the Sweet Sixteen.
2014: the only down year, really. Lost in the first round of the NCAAs.
2015: Lost in the round of 32. No rebounder.
2016: Disappointing second round loss to Kentucky.
2017: After three somewhat disappointing years, largely due to the lack of development of a couple of players who were highly-rated, this year looks like it could be the return. If Mulkey and Dungee continue to develop, this could be easily an Elite Eight or better team. Baylor, Connecticut, and, maybe, South Carolina are the only really good teams out there. Notre Dame isn't bad. The rest is a scramble.
A lot of our problem has been injury. We even lost Kay Kay to an Achilles. Vivi was hindered by an ACL. Penzo lost a year to an ACL. What would 2013 have been had Whitney and Maddie not been lost to ACLs?
Since 2007?
---you do realize that OU went to the Final Four in 2009 and 2010?
---we did it in 2010 despite having graduated Courtney and Ashley and after losing a key returning starter, Whitney Hand, after five games due to an ACL.
2011: we had lost the entire Parade All-American four (Courtney, Ashley, Abi, and Amanda). Meanwhile, Hand was back, but her shooting percentages were down about ten percent. We had to rebuild our interior after having a strong interior for five years. We did make the Sweet Sixteen.
2012: Without DRob now. But, we still made it to the round of 32.
2013: Lost two starters due to ACL tears after the sixth and ninth games, both averaging double figures. Yet, we went to the Sweet Sixteen.
2014: the only down year, really. Lost in the first round of the NCAAs.
2015: Lost in the round of 32. No rebounder.
2016: Disappointing second round loss to Kentucky.
2017: After three somewhat disappointing years, largely due to the lack of development of a couple of players who were highly-rated, this year looks like it could be the return. If Mulkey and Dungee continue to develop, this could be easily an Elite Eight or better team. Baylor, Connecticut, and, maybe, South Carolina are the only really good teams out there. Notre Dame isn't bad. The rest is a scramble.
A lot of our problem has been injury. We even lost Kay Kay to an Achilles. Vivi was hindered by an ACL. Penzo lost a year to an ACL. What would 2013 have been had Whitney and Maddie not been lost to ACLs?
Well, bay, you've been saying it since Courtney left.
Since 2007?
---you do realize that OU went to the Final Four in 2009 and 2010?
---we did it in 2010 despite having graduated Courtney and Ashley and after losing a key returning starter, Whitney Hand, after five games due to an ACL.
2011: we had lost the entire Parade All-American four (Courtney, Ashley, Abi, and Amanda). Meanwhile, Hand was back, but her shooting percentages were down about ten percent. We had to rebuild our interior after having a strong interior for five years. We did make the Sweet Sixteen.
2012: Without DRob now. But, we still made it to the round of 32.
2013: Lost two starters due to ACL tears after the sixth and ninth games, both averaging double figures. Yet, we went to the Sweet Sixteen.
2014: the only down year, really. Lost in the first round of the NCAAs.
2015: Lost in the round of 32. No rebounder.
2016: Disappointing second round loss to Kentucky.
2017: After three somewhat disappointing years, largely due to the lack of development of a couple of players who were highly-rated, this year looks like it could be the return. If Mulkey and Dungee continue to develop, this could be easily an Elite Eight or better team. Baylor, Connecticut, and, maybe, South Carolina are the only really good teams out there. Notre Dame isn't bad. The rest is a scramble.
A lot of our problem has been injury. We even lost Kay Kay to an Achilles. Vivi was hindered by an ACL. Penzo lost a year to an ACL. What would 2013 have been had Whitney and Maddie not been lost to ACLs?
Syb, I actually stated it before "Courtney" left. And that's my point, in all that you've said. When they signed C and A Paris, they didn't CONTINUE to build on that level of recruiting. Maybe they were just "lucky" in landing the number 1 player in the country and her twin sister that happened to be the number 3-5 player in the country. But take that "luck" and learn what to do with it. I don't think they learned and if they did learn to recruit top 10 student-athletes, then they haven't been successful at it. The program did not continue to recruit and create a player development program that would allow them to maintain and CONTINUE their growth and success. You have to build in a plan for player injuries. The Cowboys did with their quarterback! Your bench has to be just as capable as the starters from a skill perspective. Determining starters should be one of the most difficult aspects of the job. General Motors is not using their plan from 2005 to compete in the 2016 market. They plan AHEAD! It's a shame that all of the work was put in to create some "Sooner Magic" and now they are back to where the program was pre-2001...with a steady decline.
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Syb, I actually stated it before "Courtney" left. And that's my point, in all that you've said. When they signed C and A Paris, they didn't CONTINUE to build on that level of recruiting. Maybe they were just "lucky" in landing the number 1 player in the country and her twin sister that happened to be the number 3-5 player in the country. But take that "luck" and learn what to do with it. I don't think they learned and if they did learn to recruit top 10 student-athletes, then they haven't been successful at it. The program did not continue to recruit and create a player development program that would allow them to maintain and CONTINUE their growth and success. You have to build in a plan for player injuries. The Cowboys did with their quarterback! Your bench has to be just as capable as the starters from a skill perspective. Determining starters should be one of the most difficult aspects of the job. General Motors is not using their plan from 2005 to compete in the 2016 market. They plan AHEAD! It's a shame that all of the work was put in to create some "Sooner Magic" and now they are back to where the program was pre-2001...with a steady decline.
The Cowboys are different, and they haven't won anything in twenty years.
In the history of men's and women's basketball at OU, how many top ten recruits have come to OU---that were not native to Oklahoma?
Sherri had to build without top ten recruits to field the best team that she has ever had, and she will have to do it again. Unless you can show me a track record of top-rated players coming to OU. We can't even keep the top-rated men in state, except for Adams, Tisdale, and Griffin.
The Cowboys are different, and they haven't won anything in twenty years.
In the history of men's and women's basketball at OU, how many top ten recruits have come to OU---that were not native to Oklahoma?
Sherri had to build without top ten recruits to field the best team that she has ever had, and she will have to do it again. Unless you can show me a track record of top-rated players coming to OU. We can't even keep the top-rated men in state, except for Adams, Tisdale, and Griffin.
Yes, it's obvious that FB and BB are different sports...and Pro vs Collegiate. But PLANNING AHEAD is universal and that was my point. But for the sake of the point and specificity...Morgan Tuck missed some games for UCONN...they subbed and kept right on ticking. You have to plan (recruit and develop) for that! And injuries cannot be an excuse for years of poor performance. I don't think SC is accepting excuses for student-athletes missing academic goals. She expects them to graduate on time. Why? Because they planned for it!
Edit:
Just saw this quote on FB... "Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it." - Unknown
OU WBB has been clinging too long.
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Yes, it's obvious that FB and BB are different sports...and Pro vs Collegiate. But PLANNING AHEAD is universal and that was my point. But for the sake of the point and specificity...Morgan Tuck missed some games for UCONN...they subbed and kept right on ticking. You have to plan (recruit and develop) for that! And injuries cannot be an excuse for years of poor performance. I don't think SC is accepting excuses for student-athletes missing academic goals. She expects them to graduate on time. Why? Because they planned for it!
All you are doing is making yet another anti-Sherri post--after post-after post.
Fact: Sherri can't recruit the type of player to Norman that Geno gets for Connecticut. Geno has ten players that everyone wants. He simply plugs in a replacement, which is obvious this year.
Nobody, male or female, has ever recruited a top ten national recruit to Norman for basketball that wasn't an Oklahoman by birth or highschool (Adams being born in Kansas). Sherri built a program without a major recruit, a program that challenged the best team that Geno had ever had until this past year. There was no doubt who was #1 and #2 in 2002, and we had zero national recruits. OK. So, that and a little luck got us some good kids--four at one time. Even then, that team was limited when the best players we had on the outside had ACL injuries. You aren't getting that type of recruit to Norman often, men or women. Name the last man who came to OU that Kentucky wanted, or Kansas for that matter. We can get some good ones, but it is difficult to get enough to overcome injuries. It has nothing to do with planning.. It is about Oklahoma and recruiting.
We've had men's coaches like Tubbs, Sampson, and Kruger. Show me the top ten out of state recruits. Any?
SoonerSpock
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Do you want to try putting that student-athlete handbook before the Supreme Court on anthems?
Nope but I put the agreed upon contract between the student-athlete and the university with the terms of the contract expressed in the student-athlete handbook as taking precedence in there relationship regarding team membership.
The student athlete can protest all she wants and it protected by the constitution in doing so. However her team membership is not protected when she intentionally violates the terms of her contract for team membership.
Your logic implies that no contract exist if one party wants to express the opinion on a subject as it is protected by the constitution. You can't express your opinion (free speech) and tell your boss he is an SOB and expect to keep your job. Likewise you cannot break team rules without expecting discipline. The mutually agreed upon contract take precedence in the relationship for financial aid and team membership between the school and the student-athlete.
Nope but I put the agreed upon contract between the student-athlete and the university with the terms of the contract expressed in the student-athlete handbook as taking precedence in there relationship regarding team membership.
The student athlete can protest all she wants and it protected by the constitution in doing so. However her team membership is not protected when she intentionally violates the terms of her contract for team membership.
Your logic implies that no contract exist if one party wants to express the opinion on a subject as it is protected by the constitution. You can't express your opinion (free speech) and tell your boss he is an SOB and expect to keep your job. Likewise you cannot break team rules without expecting discipline. The mutually agreed upon contract take precedence in the relationship for financial aid and team membership between the school and the student-athlete.
You are simply being deliberately obtuse. You know that your student-handbook would be ruled unconstitutional if it insisted on making a kid put their hand over their heart. You also know that OU is not dumb enough to challenge it.
SoonerSpock
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You are simply being deliberately obtuse. You know that your student-handbook would be ruled unconstitutional if it insisted on making a kid put their hand over their heart. You also know that OU is not dumb enough to challenge it.
Obtuse? Wrong I am not the one slow to understand. Putting the hand over the heart has nothing to do with the issue. Just as assuming not placing the hand over the heart is a form of protest. Idiotic if you think so. Thousand respectfully do likewise at every home football game without protesting against the flag, country or anthem.
Contractually agreeing to follow the team rules and failing to do so and its consequences is the issue and that is defined by the student-athlete handbook. These rules Per the OUSAH are "At the beginning of each academic year, your coach will provide rules specific to your program. These rules are supplemental to and do not supersede the Student-Athlete Code of Conduct, Regent’s Policies, the University of Oklahoma Student Code of Responsibility and Conduct, as well as Big 12 Conference and NCAA policies and procedures". . If the student-athlete does like it can not join the team or appeal the rule and during the interim be potentially subject to the appropriate discipline.
I am out of here which should please most here as the has continued far too long discussing a point irrelevant to the original point the implication of not placing the hand over the heart.
As I have stated repeatedly it is obvious that no team rule exist regarding hand over heart exist at OU. However we do not know if a team rule exist defining to the team members how to respectfully honor the flag during the national anthem. Maybe a rule exist, maybe it does not. Team rules are not published for the public. But if one does exist team members are obligated to comply or be subject to discipline per their contractual agreement to do so.
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So Wooden was wrong for playing anyone he wanted, in that case who decides who plays and does not play..Bill Of Rights? The Constitution?He WAS legally wrong. You should check with a legal expert before stating a legal opinion as fact. Not angry, just saying that it is obvious some people on
here do not understand the legal issue they are addressing. Also, not trying to be hateful, but that flag you care so much about is supposed to be a representation of those rights.
quote on subject with pertinent response: "If they are on scholarship they do not have a right to do this." Indentured servitude, anyone?
While I agree the talent level in the state of Oklahoma isn't that high, when was the last time OU has even gotten a visit from a top 10 kid from Texas? The fact that a kid like Patterson would rather take a chance and play behind 3 elite point guards (2 of them were top 10 kids in there classes) instead of coming and possibly starting at OU for the next 4 years says where our program is headed...
Mulkey is scoring better with each game she plays, and Dungee has been a nice surprise, OU needs to keep it up... seems like this every year but 2018 could be a make or break class for Sherri and OU.
Mulkey is scoring better with each game she plays, and Dungee has been a nice surprise, OU needs to keep it up... seems like this every year but 2018 could be a make or break class for Sherri and OU.
Sweetest OU Girl
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While I agree the talent level in the state of Oklahoma isn't that high, when was the last time OU has even gotten a visit from a top 10 kid from Texas? The fact that a kid like Patterson would rather take a chance and play behind 3 elite point guards (2 of them were top 10 kids in there classes) instead of coming and possibly starting at OU for the next 4 years says where our program is headed...
Mulkey is scoring better with each game she plays, and Dungee has been a nice surprise, OU needs to keep it up... seems like this every year but 2018 could be a make or break class for Sherri and OU.
Thanks for trying to get us back on point, Mac.
One of the problems with "getting top 10 players to visit" is the nature of the ranking systems. To a significant extent, the rating services know little about who is top 10 - except for what their coaching contacts tell them. Once a player is seriously considering some schools, the services move them up the list. Once that recruit shows lots of interest in someone else their stock may drop. Look at Chelsea Dungee. Once she made it clear the Texas schools were out, her rating dropped - foolishly we now know. The same happened with Nancy.
Chelsea being an excellent player is not the least surprising to some on here. If you look back, some (who had watched her play in high school) were really excited about her. Others (who just take the word of so called "rating services") were doubtful. She gives every appearance of becoming a terrific part of OU's future success. The same is true for Nancy.
All you are doing is making yet another anti-Sherri post--after post-after post.
Fact: Sherri can't recruit the type of player to Norman that Geno gets for Connecticut. Geno has ten players that everyone wants. He simply plugs in a replacement, which is obvious this year.
Nobody, male or female, has ever recruited a top ten national recruit to Norman for basketball that wasn't an Oklahoman by birth or highschool (Adams being born in Kansas). Sherri built a program without a major recruit, a program that challenged the best team that Geno had ever had until this past year. There was no doubt who was #1 and #2 in 2002, and we had zero national recruits. OK. So, that and a little luck got us some good kids--four at one time. Even then, that team was limited when the best players we had on the outside had ACL injuries. You aren't getting that type of recruit to Norman often, men or women. Name the last man who came to OU that Kentucky wanted, or Kansas for that matter. We can get some good ones, but it is difficult to get enough to overcome injuries. It has nothing to do with planning.. It is about Oklahoma and recruiting.
We've had men's coaches like Tubbs, Sampson, and Kruger. Show me the top ten out of state recruits. Any?
Not true! C and A Paris were offered by UCONN. She got two that Geno wanted. Call it "anti-Sherri" or whatever you want. Facts are facts.
Not true! C and A Paris were offered by UCONN. She got two that Geno wanted. Call it "anti-Sherri" or whatever you want. Facts are facts.
This is very True, OU also was in the top 7 or so schools Lauren Cox was looking at along with Uconn...
Not true! C and A Paris were offered by UCONN. She got two that Geno wanted. Call it "anti-Sherri" or whatever you want. Facts are facts.
I said we got fortunate with the Paris Twins and the ones they brought in. But, other than that, list all of the #1-10 prospects who have come to Norman from out of state, male and female.
________________________________
________________________________
________________________________
Visiting doesn't count.
I said we got fortunate with the Paris Twins and the ones they brought in. But, other than that, list all of the #1-10 prospects who have come to Norman from out of state, male and female.
________________________________
________________________________
________________________________
Visiting doesn't count.
Glad you asked. However, I'm not interested in discussing the men's program. Not relevant on this thread. And if you have a valid point regarding the men's program...when did two wrongs make a right? They should be recruiting to build and achieve NC's as well versus settling for mediocrity.
Again, you make my point. But I can name numerous 1-10 players that WANTED to sign with OU but were basically ignored and/or denied. And let's not forget the one that changed her mind.
Edit: ...and she was from O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A
But I can name numerous 1-10 players that WANTED to sign with OU but were basically ignored and/or denied. And let's not forget the one that changed her mind.
Edit: ...and she was from O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A
What top 10 players wanted to play for Oklahoma but were ignored and/or denied? Why were they ignored/denied? Who are yo referring to that changed her mind? Why did she change her mind?
I am asking because I honestly do not know and would like to know the history there. I have read several posts that reference the "type" of player Coach Coale recruits, but have never read what that "type" of recruit is.
Anyone, please explain this so that I know what is being referenced because I would like to know.