Status of Program

inoref

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
3,044
Reaction score
36
Looks like OU after some nice wins will finish in 3rd or 4th place..correct?
If most fans and administration are happy with that then I guess all is fine in Norman. I for one think OU should be able to do better instead of staying where they are now far as pecking order goes. Not calling for Sherri C. job but I think at least she could use a little pep talk from the administration. Hire some coaches to recruit and coach, find the money to do so or take some of it back from SC. We all agree that the staff could use some help ...Yes?
 
Yes, I think we do need to add a better recruiting coach to the staff. Someone younger may help as well.
 
Yes, I think we do need to add a better recruiting coach to the staff. Someone younger may help as well.
Hell freezes over before SC gets rid of any assistants and gets new ones. It looks like the admin and university are satisfied with a Tier 2 program.
 
I would hardly call us tier 2, unless you think there are 5 or more tiers.
Nationally it is a Tier 2 program. If you believe otherwise, you are lying to yourself. UConn, Baylor, Notre Dame, Maryland, Stanford, Texas, Louisville, Duke, Rutgers, Tenn, UNC are probably the Tier I programs year in and year out. Can SC teams beat any of these on a consistant basis, or even at all these days? Be honest with yourself.
 
Nationally it is a Tier 2 program. If you believe otherwise, you are lying to yourself. UConn, Baylor, Notre Dame, Maryland, Stanford, Texas, Louisville, Duke, Rutgers, Tenn, UNC are probably the Tier I programs year in and year out. Can SC teams beat any of these on a consistant basis, or even at all these days? Be honest with yourself.

North Carolina is #104 at 13-11
--missed the NCAAs twice in the past 15 years,
--OU has been to two final fours since their last
--missed the NCAAs in 2012

Rutgers is #195 at 6-19
--missed the NCAAs in 2013, 2014, and 2016
--only been to the Sweet Sixteen four times
 
Contrast this to sixteen straight NCAA appearances and nine Sweet Sixteen appearances in those sixteen years.

Duke:
---20 straight NCAA appearances (OU 16)
---13 Sweet Sixteens (OU 9)
---2 Final fours (OU 3)

Tennessee---the other program with Connecticut
---has never missed an AIAW or NCAA tournament
---we have been to a Final Four since they have.
 
Last edited:
93,

I didn't much appreciate you calling me a lier - or dishonest. I'm neither. A person's opinion doesn't make them a lier by the way. And I think you are skating close to the board's edge with that kind of personal attack.

Let's look at Texas since you also brought them up. In the past 10 years - since 2007-08 , which is easy to examine on the Big-12 webpage (and leaving out this season since the exact finish is unknown) , we have finished in the top 3 Seven times. Texas? Three times. Our average finish is 2.8, Texas is 4.9, Baylor is 1.8. We have 102 wins, Texas only 80.

And that counts only 2 of Courtney's years at OU.
 
Connecticut
11
1995, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Tennessee
8
1987, 1989, 1991,1996, 1997, 1998, 2007, 2008
Baylor
2
2005, 2012
Louisiana Tech
2
1982, 1988
Stanford
2
1990, 1992
USC
2
1983, 1984
Maryland
1
2006
North Carolina
1
1994
Notre Dame
1
2001
Old Dominion
1
1985
Purdue
1
1999
Texas
1
1986
Texas A&M
1
2011
Texas Tech
1
1993
Until we have our name on the list of NATIONAL CHAMPIONS I don't know how we can count us as in the top grouping in wbb. Yes, among the most consistently good, yes, among the highly successful, but not among the champs.
This post is not for or against any person, only my Opinion of where I would like the program to be.
 
Last edited:
Louisville;

---12 staight NCAA appearances
---two final fours
---five sweet sixteens

Texas
---21 NCAA appearances (12 if which were prior to the Big Twelve)
---3 Final Fours (two before Big Twelve, along with the only championship)
---16 of last 20 NCAAs, missed four of the last twelve

Maryland
---13 straight NCAAs
---3 Final Fours, one title (had a fourth and fifth Final Four in 82 and 89)
---7 Sweet Sixteens in this century
 
93,

I didn't much appreciate you calling me a lier - or dishonest. I'm neither. A person's opinion doesn't make them a lier by the way. And I think you are skating close to the board's edge with that kind of personal attack.

Let's look at Texas since you also brought them up. In the past 10 years - since 2007-08 , which is easy to examine on the Big-12 webpage (and leaving out this season since the exact finish is unknown) , we have finished in the top 3 Seven times. Texas? Three times. Our average finish is 2.8, Texas is 4.9, Baylor is 1.8. We have 102 wins, Texas only 80.

And that counts only 2 of Courtney's years at OU.
Reading comprehension must not be one of your strong suits. I didn't call you a liar. Said you are lying to yourself.
 
Until we have our name on the list of NATIONAL CHAMPIONS I don't know how we can count us as in the top grouping in wbb. Yes, among the most consistently good, yes, among the highly successful, but not among the champs.
This post is not for or against any person, only my Opinion of where I would like the program to be.
That's a rather narrow set of parameters, and it really becomes rather superficial. If you want to deal with titles, especially historically, let's include the AIAW champions. Then, we have to state that Immaculata, Old Dominion, and Delta State, only one of which still has a team, is among the traditional basketball powers to which an OU should aspire.

It is interesting that this insistence upon a title seems to apply to Sherri, but not to someone like Lon Kruger who has never won a title, or Billy Tubbs. If you look at any overall set of parameters, OU is one of the top ten schools in the nation. I have seen it rated as high as #5 as recently as four or five years ago.

But, the emphasis on a title seems to dominate some people, and the lack of overall awareness of the state of various programs seems to affect others. Rutgers was listed, and they have been a non-player for several years now. Louisville was ranked by a poster who didn't rank OU, and they have no title either. So, it seems to be somewhat selective.

Compare it all and actually look at the schools and their recent history. I think we can beat Louisiana Tech, Delta State, Immaculata, and Old Dominion year after year. If you haven't looked, we can also probably wipe out the recent North Carolina and Rutgers teams. The Texas story is a thirty year old story.
 
Nationally it is a Tier 2 program. If you believe otherwise, you are lying to yourself. UConn, Baylor, Notre Dame, Maryland, Stanford, Texas, Louisville, Duke, Rutgers, Tenn, UNC are probably the Tier I programs year in and year out. Can SC teams beat any of these on a consistant basis, or even at all these days? Be honest with yourself.

Justify your inclusion of Louisville and Duke above OU.
 
That's a rather narrow set of parameters, and it really becomes rather superficial. If you want to deal with titles, especially historically, let's include the AIAW champions. Then, we have to state that Immaculata, Old Dominion, and Delta State, only one of which still has a team, is among the traditional basketball powers to which an OU should aspire.

It is interesting that this insistence upon a title seems to apply to Sherri, but not to someone like Lon Kruger who has never won a title, or Billy Tubbs. If you look at any overall set of parameters, OU is one of the top ten schools in the nation. I have seen it rated as high as #5 as recently as four or five years ago.

But, the emphasis on a title seems to dominate some people, and the lack of overall awareness of the state of various programs seems to affect others. Rutgers was listed, and they have been a non-player for several years now. Louisville was ranked by a poster who didn't rank OU, and they have no title either. So, it seems to be somewhat selective.

Compare it all and actually look at the schools and their recent history. I think we can beat Louisiana Tech, Delta State, Immaculata, and Old Dominion year after year. If you haven't looked, we can also probably wipe out the recent North Carolina and Rutgers teams. The Texas story is a thirty year old story.

I would agree that OU is perhaps marginally a top ten program. If you review the final top 25 standing for the last 5 year plus the current 2017 season the Sooner were ranked only 3 times in 7 seasons #23 in 2013, #21 in 2016 and are presently ranked #19 in 2017. During that interim UConn, Notre Dame, Maryland and Baylor were ranked in the top 10 six times. Stanford and South Carolina four times. Tennessee, Louisville, Duke, FSU and Oregon State three times. Texas, Ohio State and Mississippi State two times. Those 14 schools failed to make the top 25 only 16 of 84 opportunities.

That is 14 schools that have been consistently better than the Sooners over the last 6 seasons. So there is a valid argument that the Sooners are no longer a top ten program. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt but for certain they are marginally a top 10 program.

We live in an era that all teams are measured on what have you done for me lately and that is not trending well for the Sooner. From 2000-2009 OU won half (10) of the Big 12 regular season and tournament championships. The Sooners last won a conference championship in 2009 when they won the regular season. If you go back 10 years and include the 2007-2016 seasons we have won 3 regular seasons and 2 tournament championships in ten years. Or you might look at is as we won 4 conference championships in 2006 (2) and 2007 (2) but have only won 1 conference championship since 2008 (2009) and zero 2010-2016. That is zero conference championships in last 14 opportunities. For certain not the expected performance of a top ten program.

If you look at the NCAA's we have gone to 19 tournaments and we did have a win in the tournament in 2016. However our last Sweet 16 was 2013. Our last Elite Eight and last Final Four was 2010 and our last appearance in the Finals was 2002. The trend is going in the wrong direction.

Sooner fans are very unhappy with this performance as is indicated by game attendance. In 2007 we averaged 10,437, in 2008 9,963, in 2009 9,009, in 2010 7,681, in 2011 5,490, in 2012 6,851, in 2013 6,004, in 2014 5,632, in 2015 5,373, in 2016 4,769. A decline in attendance every year except 2012.

In the six conference games in Norman where attendance is listed this year we have averaged 4,203 which is skewed by the reported attendance for OSU of 6,543. The box score did not list the attendance for the Kansas game. Nor are our two biggest games (Baylor and Texas) included but obviously our attendance just like our performance is trending negatively.

Moreover having attended every home game in the 2007-2017 era reported attendance is significantly higher for both the men's and women's games than actual attendance. However the men report two numbers which are attendance (sold tickets) and estimated attendance (scanned tickets) which is usually 50-75% of the sold tickets number.

The women quit reporting the estimated attendance numbers about 3 years ago. But it would be my guess that estimated attendance is closer to 50-55% of the attendance figure reported the last two years. This year our attendance has been much closer to 2,000-2,500 than the 4,203 reported for the conference home games. Once or twice attendance may have been short of 2,000.

I do not see OU getting the program turned around to where it is winning an occasional conference championship, making an Elite Eight or higher until we start recruiting better basketball players and I mean a lot of better basketball players. We need our roster to have 3-4 top ten level players on every squad if we are going to consistently contend for the Final Four. Frankly I do not see that happening. Hopefully I am as wrong as is possible but the progress of this team for the last seven years provides little for me to be encouraged about.
 
Last edited:
If OU is Tier 1 they must be at the bottom of it...You almost never hear OU women basketball anymore on the national scale. OU is in the upper class in the big 12, in the top five almost ever year. Like I said before if you happy hanging your hat on that then all is well in Norman..But it seems to me like OU is irrelevant these days. I just don't know if SC can put us back with the big girls.
 
UConn attendance has dropped from 10,500 in 2009 to 8,200 in 2016. Hypocrite U attendance has dropped from 9,160 in 2013 to 6,283 in 2016. Whorns attendance has dropped from 4,900 in 2010 to 3,700 in 2016 (and actually 2017 is lower, 3,614 to date, but haven't played Hypocrite U in Austin yet).

There are a lot more variables to attendance than just wins and losses. Almost every game (every home game is) is televised now. I'm not sure if we won a NC if attendance would ever reach the numbers when Courtney was around.
 
A Tier 1 program NEVER has to go on the road for the first 2 rounds of the NCAA Tournament.
 
Back
Top