The beginning of the end?

[CanadaSooner23]

Greetings from the future 51st state!

I might ramble a bit, it's been a year since I last posted so I figured I'll try to make up for lost time lol. I want to ask an interesting question: Was there a specific moment, or game, in your opinion that signaled the beginning of the end of the Porter Moser (PM) era? Do you still have hope that PM can succeed at OU?

For as long as I can remember, I have had a tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt for as long as I possibly can, at times to a fault. I remember going home in Spring 2011 on a weekend pass from military school and reading in the Tulsa World that Jeff Capel had recently been fired that Monday. My weekend was ruined. In my heart, I knew the decision was necessary but I didn't understand why I struggled to accept that. Much like a high school breakup, it wasn't anything a few days binge on Mountain Dew, hot Cheetos, and quality time with friends couldn't fix. By Monday, I was convinced OU would win the 2012 National Championship! Now, as a graduate student studying psychology, I understand there is a term for that that starts with de- and ends in -lusion. But, a boy can dream.

Fast forward to the great Lonnie Kruger. I had a bit of an easier time with his decision to retire, but I still really struggled with it. Over the years, I have learned a lot about myself. One of those things is that I have an anxious personality and I struggle with change, even when it is necessary or even positive. This has lead me to defending PM with my emotions instead of with logic and fact. Those of you who have been critical of PM are justified, and I admit that it took me longer than it should have to understand and accept your perspective.

Last paragraph, I promise. This season began with so much hope. I still believe that the wins over Arizona, Louisville, and especially Michigan will go down as quality, resume-building wins. A game that we probably should have lost (Michigan) has now been offset by a game we clearly should have won (Texas A&M). With 16 regular season games remaining, we need to win 7 to have a puncher's chance, 8 to feel at least decent, and 9 to celebrate. Tuesday night's debacle put a big dent in our chances to accomplish that, and was absolutely deflating and unacceptable. I will never claim to know the future, and I will never root for someone to lose their job and have their career/livelihood affected. But, if mid-March rolls around and the Oklahoma Sooners are not apart of the 2025 NCAA Tournament, the night of Tuesday, January 7th, 2025 around 10 pm central time was the beginning of the end. At least for me.

With all that said, Happy New Year to each and every one of you and Boomer Sooner til the day I die!

 

[cowboysooner]

Might be right, but I hope you are wrong. We don't match up well with Georgia, and so I don't think we will win tomorrow, but we desperately need a conference win.

Just like Trae Young, Fears is finding out the scout and physicality of conference play is different than in the non-conference. When you get into conference play, it is more mma fighting then basketball. I will understand if he doesn't play better, but it would be nice if he got a little more consistent. If we get Jones back, that may help a little. We just need to get a win somehow and see if we can get our confidence back. I predicted 7-8 conference wins before conference play started. At the moment, it looks like it is going to be tough to get to that number.

 

[jdizzle34]

With OU potentially having to pay a crap ton for football buyouts next year (well, later in 2025), could delay basketball improvements.

 

[Boom Soon]

With OU potentially having to pay a crap ton for football buyouts next year (well, later in 2025), could delay basketball improvements.

That’s a very good point. Us fans are upset about the OU team but I’m sure the leadership isn’t as concerned considering the debacle that the football program is rn.

 

[daqman]

i gave pm a pass the past couple of years for various reasons. #1....he seemed to be recruiting well and needed time for his players to gain enough experience to be solid producers. but then retention of that young talent became a major problem.
then nil became a major factor.... but how could you blame pm if he didn't have sufficient funds to buy the talent he needed to compete.
i evaluate pm's teams...... and after last season there was a rumor that some of the young players didn't get along. ok...not going to blame pm entirely for that debacle. that's college basketball now....rebuilding the roster every year...it's not going to be an easy task to build chemistry among players. especially young players.
so this season....i thought we'd be in good shape with the roster being stocked with upper classmen. no such luck it seems after the a&m game.
so for me...i think its apparent now that pm isn't going to work out here. i thought he was a great hire. i like the man. but i have no confidence he can make ou competitive in the sec. i think he's still held back by nil funding...the talent is not where it needs to be to compete against the auburns/bamas/floridas/kentuckys.
but nil isn't the reason we lost to a&m. no idea if there will be a change at the end of the season or not. but it's probably 50/50 at this point.

a little background on my coaching thoughts from the past. i saw the writing on the wall with capel when he just flat out couldn't recruit anymore.
i criticized him and called for a change....and the folks who started this website banned me from ouinsider for saying those things.

with kruger....it was clear after the final 4 when he couldn't take advantage of that and up his recruiting game. that was his m/o throughout his career. he could build a team but he couldn't sustain high level success. he should have retired or moved on after the final 4.

 

[IndySooner]

i gave pm a pass the past couple of years for various reasons. #1....he seemed to be recruiting well and needed time for his players to gain enough experience to be solid producers. but then retention of that young talent became a major problem.
then nil became a major factor.... but how could you blame pm if he didn't have sufficient funds to buy the talent he needed to compete.
i evaluate pm's teams...... and after last season there was a rumor that some of the young players didn't get along. ok...not going to blame pm entirely for that debacle. that's college basketball now....rebuilding the roster every year...it's not going to be an easy task to build chemistry among players. especially young players.
so this season....i thought we'd be in good shape with the roster being stocked with upper classmen. no such luck it seems after the a&m game.
so for me...i think its apparent now that pm isn't going to work out here. i thought he was a great hire. i like the man. but i have no confidence he can make ou competitive in the sec. i think he's still held back by nil funding...the talent is not where it needs to be to compete against the auburns/bamas/floridas/kentuckys.
but nil isn't the reason we lost to a&m. no idea if there will be a change at the end of the season or not. but it's probably 50/50 at this point.

a little background on my coaching thoughts from the past. i saw the writing on the wall with capel when he just flat out couldn't recruit anymore.
i criticized him and called for a change....and the folks who started this website banned me from ouinsider for saying those things.

with kruger....it was clear after the final 4 when he couldn't take advantage of that and up his recruiting game. that was his m/o throughout his career. he could build a team but he couldn't sustain high level success. he should have retired or moved on after the final 4.

Totally agree. Of course, the lack of NIL makes the room for error even less, so it certainly has an impact on in-game situations. That was an utter collapse. I can't blame Porter for guys falling down and leaving the ball behind possession after possession, but I can blame him for a wreckless use of timeouts, leading to a situation where we could have maintained a crucial possession with a timeout late in the game.

 

[TheMont]

Good post, OP.

I didn't explicitly consider this the beginning of the end at the time (only in hindsight), but to me, the darkest moment of the PM era where I really lost hope was February 1st, 2023. On January 28th, we shocked the world by destroying #2 Alabama in Norman. PM showed he could put together an effective game plan (has he done it since?), LNC was rockin', we stormed the court. It felt, if we could ride this momentum, we could make the tournament. Luckily, the next game was against a very average Oklahoma State team at home. Due to weather, OU ended up allowing free admission and it was standing room only. After begging and begging, Porter got an LNC that was packed to the brim and supporting the team against little brother.

OU didn't show up on the court. We never led. We lost nearly every statistical category. It only took 5 minutes for the Aggies to build a double digit lead.

I, like most of us, am obsessed with OU basketball. I work hard to find hope anywhere. I wanted to give PM the benefit of the doubt, as it was only his 2nd season, and he deserved time to build his roster. But then, only 4 guys returned (Oweh, Uzan, Godwin, Northweather -- 2 freshmen who are now gone, a walk on, and a guy who hadn't yet played a minute). Deep down, I knew he was toast then.

 

[Boom Soon]

Good post, OP.

I didn't explicitly consider this the beginning of the end at the time (only in hindsight), but to me, the darkest moment of the PM era where I really lost hope was February 1st, 2023. On January 28th, we shocked the world by destroying #2 Alabama in Norman. PM showed he could put together an effective game plan (has he done it since?), LNC was rockin', we stormed the court. It felt, if we could ride this momentum, we could make the tournament. Luckily, the next game was against a very average Oklahoma State team at home. Due to weather, OU ended up allowing free admission and it was standing room only. After begging and begging, Porter got an LNC that was packed to the brim and supporting the team against little brother.

OU didn't show up on the court. We never led. We lost nearly every statistical category. It only took 5 minutes for the Aggies to build a double digit lead.

I, like most of us, am obsessed with OU basketball. I work hard to find hope anywhere. I wanted to give PM the benefit of the doubt, as it was only his 2nd season, and he deserved time to build his roster. But then, only 4 guys returned (Oweh, Uzan, Godwin, Northweather -- 2 freshmen who are now gone, a walk on, and a guy who hadn't yet played a minute). Deep down, I knew he was toast then.

Yeah that night against OSU was a tough time indeed. It pretty much tanked the season.

It’s hard for me to pinpoint a specific time that was the beginning of the end. I think a lot about the Texas game at home last year. I felt like, OU, after that loss, really might not make the tournament. Like it was a huge game, and OU just laid an egg. And I knew if Moser didn’t make the tournament in year three he never would at OU.

 

[IndySooner]

Good post, OP.

I didn't explicitly consider this the beginning of the end at the time (only in hindsight), but to me, the darkest moment of the PM era where I really lost hope was February 1st, 2023. On January 28th, we shocked the world by destroying #2 Alabama in Norman. PM showed he could put together an effective game plan (has he done it since?), LNC was rockin', we stormed the court. It felt, if we could ride this momentum, we could make the tournament. Luckily, the next game was against a very average Oklahoma State team at home. Due to weather, OU ended up allowing free admission and it was standing room only. After begging and begging, Porter got an LNC that was packed to the brim and supporting the team against little brother.

OU didn't show up on the court. We never led. We lost nearly every statistical category. It only took 5 minutes for the Aggies to build a double digit lead.

I, like most of us, am obsessed with OU basketball. I work hard to find hope anywhere. I wanted to give PM the benefit of the doubt, as it was only his 2nd season, and he deserved time to build his roster. But then, only 4 guys returned (Oweh, Uzan, Godwin, Northweather -- 2 freshmen who are now gone, a walk on, and a guy who hadn't yet played a minute). Deep down, I knew he was toast then.

Actually, I'd argue his game plan on Wednesday was great. That first half, he completely outclassed A&M. It was after the half that things fell apart.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Actually, I'd argue his game plan on Wednesday was great. That first half, he completely outclassed A&M. It was after the half that things fell apart.

live ball turnovers at the FT line and above are not part of anyone gameplan ..

 

[steverocks35]

Actually, I'd argue his game plan on Wednesday was great. That first half, he completely outclassed A&M. It was after the half that things fell apart.

We only "outclassed" them because Goodine went crazy. I don't think it had much to do with any gameplan.

 

[IndySooner]

live ball turnovers at the FT line and above are not part of anyone gameplan ..

Right! But swinging the ball into a wide open corner possession after possession is a major part of a gameplan. It was a great gameplan. It just fell apart with execution in the second half. And, to be fair, A&M likely made the adjustments to help it fall apart.

 

[skyvue]

PM's teams have repeatedly failed to build momentum after a big win--and frequently those face plants have occurred in front of large and enthusiastic home crowds.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Right! But swinging the ball into a wide open corner possession after possession is a major part of a gameplan. It was a great gameplan. It just fell apart with execution in the second half. And, to be fair, A&M likely made the adjustments to help it fall apart.

The turnovers killed but let’s not forget that we gave up 50 second-half points to an (at best) mediocre offense missing its best player. The defense has been bad all year, and terrible the past few games. Many of their baskets came on wide open shots. Play even somewhat respectable defense and they have no shot at coming back.

Here is how I think of it. If that game was on the road and we were missing Fears, and A&M had a guy go on a crazy heater while building an 18-pt second-half lead, the board would have been saying that it wasn’t realistic to expect us to have a chance. Yet we had all those factors going for us, and completely fell apart in every aspect of the game. So many things had to go wrong, and a good in-game coach should be able to figure out at least one way to make a difference. Instead, he frantically paces and stomps his feet and looks back at his assistants with an exasperated look.

 

[TINY]

PM's teams have repeatedly failed to build momentum after a big win--and frequently those face plants have occurred in front of large and enthusiastic home crowds.

Agreed but that wasn’t the case this time. Ou crowd for a top 10 matchup was once again embarrassing. A legitimate top 30 program should have a decided home court advantage every game. It is the biggest issue the program faces imo. I don’t believe it will ever get fixed with okc providing a significantly superior product unfortunately.

 

[snydrosooner]

The turnovers killed but let’s not forget that we gave up 50 second-half points to an (at best) mediocre offense missing its best player. The defense has been bad all year, and terrible the past few games. Many of their baskets came on wide open shots. Play even somewhat respectable defense and they have no shot at coming back.

Here is how I think of it. If that game was on the road and we were missing Fears, and A&M had a guy go on a crazy heater while building an 18-pt second-half lead, the board would have been saying that it wasn’t realistic to expect us to have a chance. Yet we had all those factors going for us, and completely fell apart in every aspect of the game. So many things had to go wrong, and a good in-game coach should be able to figure out at least one way to make a difference. Instead, he frantically paces and stomps his feet and looks back at his assistants with an exasperated look.

I think I heard trow say they scored 25 points points directly off turnovers in the second half. Less tournovers and our defense probably looks better.

 

[snydrosooner]

Agreed but that wasn’t the case this time. Ou crowd for a top 10 matchup was once again embarrassing. A legitimate top 30 program should have a decided home court advantage every game. It is the biggest issue the program faces imo. I don’t believe it will ever get fixed with okc providing a significantly superior product unfortunately.

Ou crowd for anyone besides Tx, osu. And ku has been suspect for years.

 

[skyvue]

Less tournovers and our defense probably looks better.

It would look better in every way. More points for us, fewer points for them and a Sooner win, likely by double digits.

 

[daqman]

Agreed but that wasn’t the case this time. Ou crowd for a top 10 matchup was once again embarrassing. A legitimate top 30 program should have a decided home court advantage every game. It is the biggest issue the program faces imo. I don’t believe it will ever get fixed with okc providing a significantly superior product unfortunately.

i think it would get fixed....by winning. the last couple of years.....the crowds grew with a couple of wins...
then a devastating loss at home killed all the momentum.
fans are in a "show me" mode.....and pm showed them wednesday night.

 

[Sooner Season]

Back to part of the original post. The end for me was the post season whine conference last spring. Any self respecting coach (and athletic director I might add) would never schedule something like that and then spend 45 minutes whining and crying about being left out because you put yourself squarely on the wrong side of the bubble. Who does that? Literally nobody. And acting as if you solidly did everything you needed to to put yourself in shows even more lack of awareness of how bad your team/program is.