The beginning of the end?

[SoonerBounce13]

Greetings from the future 51st state!

I might ramble a bit, it's been a year since I last posted so I figured I'll try to make up for lost time lol. I want to ask an interesting question: Was there a specific moment, or game, in your opinion that signaled the beginning of the end of the Porter Moser (PM) era? Do you still have hope that PM can succeed at OU?

For as long as I can remember, I have had a tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt for as long as I possibly can, at times to a fault. I remember going home in Spring 2011 on a weekend pass from military school and reading in the Tulsa World that Jeff Capel had recently been fired that Monday. My weekend was ruined. In my heart, I knew the decision was necessary but I didn't understand why I struggled to accept that. Much like a high school breakup, it wasn't anything a few days binge on Mountain Dew, hot Cheetos, and quality time with friends couldn't fix. By Monday, I was convinced OU would win the 2012 National Championship! Now, as a graduate student studying psychology, I understand there is a term for that that starts with de- and ends in -lusion. But, a boy can dream.

Fast forward to the great Lonnie Kruger. I had a bit of an easier time with his decision to retire, but I still really struggled with it. Over the years, I have learned a lot about myself. One of those things is that I have an anxious personality and I struggle with change, even when it is necessary or even positive. This has lead me to defending PM with my emotions instead of with logic and fact. Those of you who have been critical of PM are justified, and I admit that it took me longer than it should have to understand and accept your perspective.

Last paragraph, I promise. This season began with so much hope. I still believe that the wins over Arizona, Louisville, and especially Michigan will go down as quality, resume-building wins. A game that we probably should have lost (Michigan) has now been offset by a game we clearly should have won (Texas A&M). With 16 regular season games remaining, we need to win 7 to have a puncher's chance, 8 to feel at least decent, and 9 to celebrate. Tuesday night's debacle put a big dent in our chances to accomplish that, and was absolutely deflating and unacceptable. I will never claim to know the future, and I will never root for someone to lose their job and have their career/livelihood affected. But, if mid-March rolls around and the Oklahoma Sooners are not apart of the 2025 NCAA Tournament, the night of Tuesday, January 7th, 2025 around 10 pm central time was the beginning of the end. At least for me.

With all that said, Happy New Year to each and every one of you and Boomer Sooner til the day I die!

Thanks for the post.

I have no issues with those that are not a fan of PM and want him fired.
I am on the train now.

However it is still astounding to me that we have posters that are fans that personally berate the coach by calling him names.
SHows a real lack of maturity.

Criticize PM and his ability to lead the team, win close games, etc. But attacking him as a man is just too far and too commonplace on this board. Not talking to you OP obviously...but the select few that seem to have a personal vendetta against PM

 

[IndySooner]

I didn't mean that was what I believed. I think it's what too much of our fan base believes: national championship or bust. Sorry I wasn't clear.

There has to be loyalty to the alma mater and to the state.

And if you didn't mean it, I wasn't calling you dumb. Just to be clear.

But I do think people who look at this this way are dumb. And most likely are what the other side calls the t-shirt fans.

I'll be interested to see what happens with softball when the program takes an inevitable downturn. These things don't last forever. That palace of a softball field they built will look pretty sad with 100 people in it.

 

[Sooner Season]

Along those lines, did you see what Rick Barnes said yesterday that he told a player when he took him out because of repeated mistakes? Basically told him that he wasn’t doing what he is paid to do. Meanwhile, we have people suggesting Sam shouldn’t be criticized because he loves OU.

What is there to criticize about Godwin? He's not all conference, he's not 6'10" 250, he's not a back to the basket post option, he doesn't average double doubles, he's overmatched athletically most nights? Seriously, all of those things are true, so what do you expect from him? He's a guy who gives 100% effort every night and despite his physical shortcomings is somehow one of the top offensive rebounders in the country. He gets the most out of the talent he does have. He is the best big man we have had since Ryan Spangler. He's almost the ONLY big man we have had since Ryan Spangler. He's all we have because apparently we can't attract any other big men!! Do you remember Brady Manek playing the 5? He is honored to play for HIS school that he has loved all of his life. That's exactly what most of us complain about now, that kids only follow the money. And when we get one who plays for the love of the school we criticize because he isn't all conference. I'm going to root for him because he's a unicorn in today's college game.

 

[WichitaSooner]

What is there to criticize about Godwin? He's not all conference, he's not 6'10" 250, he's not a back to the basket post option, he doesn't average double doubles, he's overmatched athletically most nights? Seriously, all of those things are true, so what do you expect from him? He's a guy who gives 100% effort every night and despite his physical shortcomings is somehow one of the top offensive rebounders in the country. He gets the most out of the talent he does have. He is the best big man we have had since Ryan Spangler. He's almost the ONLY big man we have had since Ryan Spangler. He's all we have because apparently we can't attract any other big men!! Do you remember Brady Manek playing the 5? He is honored to play for HIS school that he has loved all of his life. That's exactly what most of us complain about now, that kids only follow the money. And when we get one who plays for the love of the school we criticize because he isn't all conference. I'm going to root for him because he's a unicorn in today's college game.

How about the fact that he hasn't improved or expanded his game in four years? Still can't/won't shoot outside 5 feet. Still commits tons of dumb fouls. And as our starting center, I'd say he deserves a fair bit of blame for our awful defensive rebounding. Sure, his offensive rebounding is great, but we also need to grab an occasional board.

He starts on a P4 team in the best conference in America and gets paid to do so. He isn't off limits for criticism. Criticizing his game doesn't mean someone is attacking him as a human being. Let's not be overly dramatic just because you like him and appreciate his love for OU.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Let's not be overly dramatic

lol

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Godwin has improved this year in just about every facet but scoring. Especially his shot blocking, assists, and steals. He is in the top third of rebounding in the conference despite playing 20 mpg.

Yes he isn't ideal but to act like he hasn't improved is foolish

 

[WichitaSooner]

Godwin has improved this year in just about every facet but scoring. Especially his shot blocking, assists, and steals. He is in the top third of rebounding in the conference despite playing 20 mpg.

Yes he isn't ideal but to act like he hasn't improved is foolish

His shooting numbers are identical to last year. He is getting to the FT line significantly less often. His rebounds are up one per game. There is basically no difference in his game from 12 months ago.

 

[Sooner Season]

How about the fact that he hasn't improved or expanded his game in four years? Still can't/won't shoot outside 5 feet. Still commits tons of dumb fouls. And as our starting center, I'd say he deserves a fair bit of blame for our awful defensive rebounding. Sure, his offensive rebounding is great, but we also need to grab an occasional board.

He starts on a P4 team in the best conference in America and gets paid to do so. He isn't off limits for criticism. Criticizing his game doesn't mean someone is attacking him as a human being. Let's not be overly dramatic just because you like him and appreciate his love for OU.

And he's the best big man we have had in almost 10 years. As limited as he is.

And overly dramatic? Stating facts is overly dramatic? Saying I'm going to root for him in spite of his limitations is overly dramatic?

Why do you like to make things personal?

 

[WichitaSooner]

And he's the best big man we have had in almost 10 years. As limited as he is.

And overly dramatic? Stating facts is overly dramatic? Saying I'm going to root for him in spite of his limitations is overly dramatic?

Why do you like to make things personal?

Personal? I haven’t ever said anything to you. I think the contents of your posts are silly. You are overly dramatic because you are chiding people for critiquing a player’s game because of his “love for OU.”

And he isn’t our best big since Spangler.

 

[steverocks35]

Personal? I haven’t ever said anything to you. I think the contents of your posts are silly. You are overly dramatic because you are chiding people for critiquing a player’s game because of his “love for OU.”

And he isn’t our best big since Spangler.

I love the guy, but he probably isn't even the best big on the team right now.

 

[Sooner Season]

Personal? I haven’t ever said anything to you. I think the contents of your posts are silly. You are overly dramatic because you are chiding people for critiquing a player’s game because of his “love for OU.”

And he isn’t our best big since Spangler.

Saying my post is silly isn't personal. That's the problem, you hijack every thread with comments about the poster. I think I'll try the ignore button. See yaaaaaa!!

 

[TINY]

Godwin isn’t the problem. Godwin being our best big man IS the problem. Losing hugley to injury last year was a big deal. Losing him to the portal became a very big deal when we replaced him with wague instead of a legitimate post player.

 

[Sooner Season]

Godwin isn’t the problem. Godwin being our best big man IS the problem. Losing hugley to injury last year was a big deal. Losing him to the portal became a very big deal when we replaced him with wague instead of a legitimate post player.

Exactly.

 

[skyvue]

I'll be interested to see what happens with softball when the program takes an inevitable downturn. These things don't last forever. That palace of a softball field they built will look pretty sad with 100 people in it.

I doubt you'll live long enough to see that dire scenario come to pass (I'm extremely confident that I won't).

Even if Coach Gasso were to retire tomorrow, OU would have no trouble attracting a top coach, a coach that would be able to keep the program at a high level of competitiveness, given OU's superior facilities and established tradition of greatness. Will the next coach match Patty's accomplishments? Very unlikely, but there's a huge gap between Gasso's heights and 100 people in the stands.

I also think you underestimate the number of OU's hardcore softball fans. Sure, there are some bandwagon fans, as with any team that is experiencing great success, but your comment implies that virtually all of the fans are frontrunners and I don't believe that for a moment.

 

[ousooners1baby]

First of all, great post OP. I read it like a book I couldn't put down. It was honest and let us know a person from text that most can't accomplish in writing. I am enamored by the whole thing. All we get to see in social media today is everyone's worst and it seems that everyone is out to prove everyone else wrong with their superior intelligence. I thank you for your post.

Now on to me. lol. Glancing over and thru what I read I agree with most. But Godwin is a true college 5th man or should probably be a 6th man. He is a warrior. It makes you ponder the loyalty a "sooner" plays with that others don't possess. Its the old question with in state recruiting. Who should we get because they want to be here and who is not good enough to be here? Some here would not have let Renzi Stone see the court it seems. I am amazed at PM success during the non con. Its remarkable. Then, the wheels just fall off. Too much coaching? No one really knows but something is amiss. I did not think Forsythe would translate to next level. He has actually impressed me with his latest minutes but is getting none now. I am fully convinced it was why I did not think he could play at this level. Defense. Honestly, I'd like to see him get a few more minutes. Our guys right now do not value the basketball at all. I'd rather have a guy that is a step slow but takes care of the ball on offense. But right now I am not impressed with many of our defensive efforts. It seems as if PM loses them halfway in.

I don't have the answers and it sure looks like PM doesn't either. I can't imagine coaching in a major college and one that has had some extremely successful seasons and knowing the crowd is gonna be weak even for a top 25 team. It is more than embarrassing but we are not the only one that suffers it. But in our current conference we seem to be the one that has some of the weakest support. I think some is that as most have stated here and PM has lost them too.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

His shooting numbers are identical to last year. He is getting to the FT line significantly less often. His rebounds are up one per game. There is basically no difference in his game from 12 months ago.

lol ok

Stats be damned!

 

[sooner333]

I think softball is a good example of a fanbase that generally grew organically in the local community and then kind of exploded after the team had enormous success.

OU Men’s Basketball has some legacy corporate tickets that don’t get used and some people who just hit renew on the tickets without thinking. They are good seats inhibiting community growth of the program. That combined with what seems like a lack of grassroots marketing of the program (and of course the stagnant nature of the program the past few years) is holding us back, IMO.

 

[hoopsaustin]

I think softball is a good example of a fanbase that generally grew organically in the local community and then kind of exploded after the team had enormous success.

OU Men’s Basketball has some legacy corporate tickets that don’t get used and some people who just hit renew on the tickets without thinking. They are good seats inhibiting community growth of the program. That combined with what seems like a lack of grassroots marketing of the program (and of course the stagnant nature of the program the past few years) is holding us back, IMO.

I grow tired of the "if we had fans in the stands every game this would all be totally different." How? Porter will actually be a good coach? Every time the fans show out even, pm lays the biggest egg. IMO pm would not go to games coached by pm.

 

[sooner333]

I grow tired of the "if we had fans in the stands every game this would all be totally different." How? Porter will actually be a good coach? Every time the fans show out even, pm lays the biggest egg. IMO pm would not go to games coached by pm.

I don’t know if it would be any different or not. But, as someone who goes to nearly every game, it would be nice to see some people more enthusiastic about basketball. I’m sure the players would feel that way even more than me.

 

[IndySooner]

I doubt you'll live long enough to see that dire scenario come to pass (I'm extremely confident that I won't).

Even if Coach Gasso were to retire tomorrow, OU would have no trouble attracting a top coach, a coach that would be able to keep the program at a high level of competitiveness, given OU's superior facilities and established tradition of greatness. Will the next coach match Patty's accomplishments? Very unlikely, but there's a huge gap between Gasso's heights and 100 people in the stands.

I also think you underestimate the number of OU's hardcore softball fans. Sure, there are some bandwagon fans, as with any team that is experiencing great success, but your comment implies that virtually all of the fans are frontrunners and I don't believe that for a moment.

Softball used to have essentially the same sized following as baseball. Then the run started. Those people who jumped on the run will leave just as quickly as they arrived when things, inevitably, go south.