The State of Oklahoma basketball looks bleak to me ..

Sam

Sam

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Been doing some thinking and thought I would put in pixel form and share it with this board. Its long, its ranty, so you've been forewarned.

In my short life I have never seen this program anywhere close to the shambles that it is starting to become. Maybe its a sign of being spoiled, nearsighted, biased or whatever, but this situation seems surreal. OU basketball has always been a consistent winner for me in regards to sports. My first memories of OU football were of DeMond Parker being good and the rest of the team constantly losing.

Because of this and the success that Nate Erdmand, Corey Brewer and Eduardo Najera had I foolishly believed OU was a basketball school. OU basketball has always been number 1 in my heart, even when the football team now at a similar status of the 50's, 70's and 80's, I've still been a basketball guy.

I remember my winter Saturdays being built around getting to watch OU basketball and Phillips 66 commercials. I remember begging my mom to take me out of school to watch Big 12 and NCAA tournament games. Pretending to be Eduardo Najera in my drive way, then even going through a weird phase where I would pound the left side of my chest before a free throw because I was convinced it would allow me to make them like Hollis did. OU basketball being a winner is all I've ever known.

I know now its a spoiled outlook on life and now seems incredible lucky as I look at what has conspired in the past two years. I think the biggest shocker to me in all of this is I was convinced we were entering another golden age of Sooner hoops.

All the McDonald All Americans and potential future Sooners had me seeing stars. To make it even better, all those stars were aligned and they pointed to one thing. OU cutting down the nets and getting that elusive national championship.

Its funny how foolish those dreams look right now, as even a NIT championship seems impossible. It is amazing how OU went from the penthouse to the outhouse quicker than a game winning tip in by Jameel Haywood vs Missouri.

Maybe this is a knee jerk reaction but I am honestly not sure there are many coaching options that call pull this program out of the tailspin. I look at many of the mid major candidates, the "more realistic options" and go really? These are the men to be trusted with fixing this program?

Cuonzo Martin, a guy who has never even been to the tournament?
Greg Marshall. a guy having trouble maintaining the same level of success Mark Turegon had with the Shockers?

All the mid majors just scream a massive MEH to me. Maybe one of them could take over and maintain a relative good level of success, but none of them seem ready to take on a rebuilding job that is needed here.

This is the breaking point for the program, if this hire isn't successful its looking to be at least 5 more years of struggles. 5 more years of a NIT bid being be a welcome sight for those that stick it out as fans.

The small fan base OU has will only grow smaller, leaving the few crazy die hards, making up the 2,079 people in the LNC for that December Wednesday Night game vs Little Sisters of the Poor St. I hate speaking in such gloom and doom terms for this team I really do. But I look at it and just don't see many reasons to Sunshine pump.

I know that Joe C is much too busy of a man to be reading the rantings and ravings of this message board, but if he somehow does see this. Do whatever it takes, open the checkbook, whatever is need to get a quality name in here. I don't care if its Buzz Williams, Tubby Smith, heck even Chris Mack or shudder, Tad Boyle don't seem like bad options compared to the Mid-Major options. Just make it happen Joe C, I don't care how it is done.

This hire is going to make or break the program. Don't go cheap, go big or go home. Make sure OU goes down swinging and not with a whimper in the middle of the night If I could think of some more cliches at this moment I would be sure to throw them into this paragraph to further illustrate my point.

Not really a lot of groundbreaking stuff with this post, but I felt the need to share it.

I'll step off the soapbox now.
 
Good post. Cannot disagree with a single word.

Loving OU BBall more than OU football......we're an exclusive lot.
 
Sam said:
Been doing some thinking and thought I would put in pixel form and share it with this board. Its long, its ranty, so you've been forewarned.

In my short life I have never seen this program anywhere close to the shambles that it is starting to become. Maybe its a sign of being spoiled, nearsighted, biased or whatever, but this situation seems surreal. OU basketball has always been a consistent winner for me in regards to sports. My first memories of OU football were of DeMond Parker being good and the rest of the team constantly losing.

Because of this and the success that Nate Erdmand, Corey Brewer and Eduardo Najera had I foolishly believed OU was a basketball school. OU basketball has always been number 1 in my heart, even when the football team now at a similar status of the 50's, 70's and 80's, I've still been a basketball guy.

I remember my winter Saturdays being built around getting to watch OU basketball and Phillips 66 commercials. I remember begging my mom to take me out of school to watch Big 12 and NCAA tournament games. Pretending to be Eduardo Najera in my drive way, then even going through a weird phase where I would pound the left side of my chest before a free throw because I was convinced it would allow me to make them like Hollis did. OU basketball being a winner is all I've ever known.

I know now its a spoiled outlook on life and now seems incredible lucky as I look at what has conspired in the past two years. I think the biggest shocker to me in all of this is I was convinced we were entering another golden age of Sooner hoops.

All the McDonald All Americans and potential future Sooners had me seeing stars. To make it even better, all those stars were aligned and they pointed to one thing. OU cutting down the nets and getting that elusive national championship.

Its funny how foolish those dreams look right now, as even a NIT championship seems impossible. It is amazing how OU went from the penthouse to the outhouse quicker than a game winning tip in by Jameel Haywood vs Missouri.

Maybe this is a knee jerk reaction but I am honestly not sure there are many coaching options that call pull this program out of the tailspin. I look at many of the mid major candidates, the "more realistic options" and go really? These are the men to be trusted with fixing this program?

Cuonzo Martin, a guy who has never even been to the tournament?
Greg Marshall. a guy having trouble maintaining the same level of success Mark Turegon had with the Shockers?

All the mid majors just scream a massive MEH to me. Maybe one of them could take over and maintain a relative good level of success, but none of them seem ready to take on a rebuilding job that is needed here.

This is the breaking point for the program, if this hire isn't successful its looking to be at least 5 more years of struggles. 5 more years of a NIT bid being be a welcome sight for those that stick it out as fans.

The small fan base OU has will only grow smaller, leaving the few crazy die hards, making up the 2,079 people in the LNC for that December Wednesday Night game vs Little Sisters of the Poor St. I hate speaking in such gloom and doom terms for this team I really do. But I look at it and just don't see many reasons to Sunshine pump.

I know that Joe C is much too busy of a man to be reading the rantings and ravings of this message board, but if he somehow does see this. Do whatever it takes, open the checkbook, whatever is need to get a quality name in here. I don't care if its Buzz Williams, Tubby Smith, heck even Chris Mack or shudder, Tad Boyle don't seem like bad options compared to the Mid-Major options. Just make it happen Joe C, I don't care how it is done.

This hire is going to make or break the program. Don't go cheap, go big or go home. Make sure OU goes down swinging and not with a whimper in the middle of the night If I could think of some more cliches at this moment I would be sure to throw them into this paragraph to further illustrate my point.

Not really a lot of groundbreaking stuff with this post, but I felt the need to share it.

I'll step off the soapbox now.
Click to expand...

:clap
 
Thats crazy. I used to wear wristbands and wipe off the sweat of my brow with them before free throws, because that's what Tim Mcallister did. Bounce, bend at the knee, bounce, bend at the knee, bounce, bend at the knee, deep breath, shoot. Then repeat.

As for your rant. I agree, to an extent. If OU "settles" for a mid major guy. The excitement may not be there in the beginning. But it the guy brings in quality players, and can coach, OU will win games. Once OU starts winning, and he proves he can coach at this level, more players will come. Soon, OU is winning, and people are excited again. Sometimes, today's nobody's are tomorrow's Buzz Williams.

Sometimes, they're Jeff Capel.

Conversely, sometimes Today's Buzz Williams are tomorrow's Paul Hewitt's.
 
Well said. :clap:clap

For those of us that are a generation older, our first memories are the '84 or '85 team and had the luxury of seeing OU basketball and football being great. Then we got to OU and the OU football team sucked and all we had were memories of past OU football glory and still had a solid basketball program. Here is hoping that we can rekindle OU football and basketball being great at the same time on a consistent basis.
 
38Special said:
Thats crazy. I used to wear wristbands and wipe off the sweat of my brow with them before free throws, because that's what Tim Mcallister did. Bounce, bend at the knee, bounce, bend at the knee, bounce, bend at the knee, deep breath, shoot. Then repeat.

As for your rant. I agree, to an extent. If OU "settles" for a mid major guy. The excitement may not be there in the beginning. But it the guy brings in quality players, and can coach, OU will win games. Once OU starts winning, and he proves he can coach at this level, more players will come. Soon, OU is winning, and people are excited again. Sometimes, today's nobody's are tomorrow's Buzz Williams.

Sometimes, they're Jeff Capel.

Conversely, sometimes Today's Buzz Williams are tomorrow's Paul Hewitt's.
Click to expand...

Did you also have the stagger stance at the FT line like McCallister did? Remember, one leg was further back than the other one.

I tried that stance but could never get it to work.

I also learned how to shoot a turnaround left-handed jumper after watching Wayman as a frosh. I was in the 6th grade and couldn't dribble left-handed or even shoot a left-handed layup, but I had a left-handed turnaround jumper that was deadly. It was my coupe de grace in a game of horse. :ez-laugh:
 
Solid post, Sam!

I think a lot of us who are basketall-first OU fans can relate to your experiences over the years, as well as share your concerns about the program's future. I don't believe there has ever been a time in our history when hiring the right coach has been more important. We can only hope that Joe C. believes that, too.
 
Welcome to the real world Sam. Life's hard. OU won't be down forever.
 
seniorsooner said:
How did the state of OU football look to you in about 1997?
Click to expand...
Considering I was 7, I was much more likely to want to play with my Transformers or Power Rangers toys then critique the football program.

But I will argue this, there is much more in incentive and resources to turn around the football program. Looks at the monster that is OU football, the boasters, the fans, the traditions, the recruiting, etc. OU football is one of those programs in football much more likely to pull out of a tailspin because people will do what ever it takes, because of dollar signs.

If OU basketball falls by the way side I doubt there will be much of a drive to return them to the top. I suspect many people would look at it "if it happens, it happens. If not, no skin off my nose." Especially with the great job Coach Coale has done with the womens basketball team, I could see a scenario similar to how Tennessee was before Pearl turned them around. Football first, power house womens program then who cares about mens hoops.

38Special said:
As for your rant. I agree, to an extent. If OU "settles" for a mid major guy. The excitement may not be there in the beginning. But it the guy brings in quality players, and can coach, OU will win games. Once OU starts winning, and he proves he can coach at this level, more players will come. Soon, OU is winning, and people are excited again. Sometimes, today's nobody's are tomorrow's Buzz Williams.

Sometimes, they're Jeff Capel.

Conversely, sometimes Today's Buzz Williams are tomorrow's Paul Hewitt's.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, I know some of this is a knee jerk reaction. Living in the moment, all that garbage.

I just think the program, the fans, the recruiting, they all need a shot of life. I think that is much more likely happen with a big name coach, if its a mid major coach we're looking at a few years of meh even if he has some success.

A big name hire would get momentum going much quicker, then a mid major type. He would at least have less of an uphill fight in regards to perception.
 
a mid-major hire will kill this program right now.
 
Sam said:
Been doing some thinking and thought I would put in pixel form and share it with this board. Its long, its ranty, so you've been forewarned.

In my short life I have never seen this program anywhere close to the shambles that it is starting to become. Maybe its a sign of being spoiled, nearsighted, biased or whatever, but this situation seems surreal. OU basketball has always been a consistent winner for me in regards to sports. My first memories of OU football were of DeMond Parker being good and the rest of the team constantly losing.

Because of this and the success that Nate Erdmand, Corey Brewer and Eduardo Najera had I foolishly believed OU was a basketball school. OU basketball has always been number 1 in my heart, even when the football team now at a similar status of the 50's, 70's and 80's, I've still been a basketball guy.

I remember my winter Saturdays being built around getting to watch OU basketball and Phillips 66 commercials. I remember begging my mom to take me out of school to watch Big 12 and NCAA tournament games. Pretending to be Eduardo Najera in my drive way, then even going through a weird phase where I would pound the left side of my chest before a free throw because I was convinced it would allow me to make them like Hollis did. OU basketball being a winner is all I've ever known.

I know now its a spoiled outlook on life and now seems incredible lucky as I look at what has conspired in the past two years. I think the biggest shocker to me in all of this is I was convinced we were entering another golden age of Sooner hoops.

All the McDonald All Americans and potential future Sooners had me seeing stars. To make it even better, all those stars were aligned and they pointed to one thing. OU cutting down the nets and getting that elusive national championship.

Its funny how foolish those dreams look right now, as even a NIT championship seems impossible. It is amazing how OU went from the penthouse to the outhouse quicker than a game winning tip in by Jameel Haywood vs Missouri.

Maybe this is a knee jerk reaction but I am honestly not sure there are many coaching options that call pull this program out of the tailspin. I look at many of the mid major candidates, the "more realistic options" and go really? These are the men to be trusted with fixing this program?

Cuonzo Martin, a guy who has never even been to the tournament?
Greg Marshall. a guy having trouble maintaining the same level of success Mark Turegon had with the Shockers?

All the mid majors just scream a massive MEH to me. Maybe one of them could take over and maintain a relative good level of success, but none of them seem ready to take on a rebuilding job that is needed here.

This is the breaking point for the program, if this hire isn't successful its looking to be at least 5 more years of struggles. 5 more years of a NIT bid being be a welcome sight for those that stick it out as fans.

The small fan base OU has will only grow smaller, leaving the few crazy die hards, making up the 2,079 people in the LNC for that December Wednesday Night game vs Little Sisters of the Poor St. I hate speaking in such gloom and doom terms for this team I really do. But I look at it and just don't see many reasons to Sunshine pump.

I know that Joe C is much too busy of a man to be reading the rantings and ravings of this message board, but if he somehow does see this. Do whatever it takes, open the checkbook, whatever is need to get a quality name in here. I don't care if its Buzz Williams, Tubby Smith, heck even Chris Mack or shudder, Tad Boyle don't seem like bad options compared to the Mid-Major options. Just make it happen Joe C, I don't care how it is done.

This hire is going to make or break the program. Don't go cheap, go big or go home. Make sure OU goes down swinging and not with a whimper in the middle of the night If I could think of some more cliches at this moment I would be sure to throw them into this paragraph to further illustrate my point.

Not really a lot of groundbreaking stuff with this post, but I felt the need to share it.

I'll step off the soapbox now.
Click to expand...

I don't want this to sound like I am "connected" or have a "source" or anything else, but based on personal email correspondence with the current Athletic Director at the University of Oklahoma regarding a situation that may have caused NCAA issues [foolishly], I can 100% assure you that there are people in that department that pay attention to message boards...at least OU rivals.com site for sure.

Whether it is personally Joe [I doubt it] or someone that reports to him, I am absolutely positive that they read this stuff and report. Take it for what it is worth...but I believe it to be 100% true and that comes straight from the guy at the top who within 12 hours responded to an email from a nobody OU grad such as myself, read my response, and AGAIN took time out of his day to discuss the issue and responded to my email.

FWIW, I think the above particularly holds true in a time like this. Point is, don't discount your passion for the OU MBBP, and my hunch is that Jeff Capel would not have been let go if Joe Castiglione did not share your passion and level of expectation. Again, based on personal correspondence, he expects us to be nothing less than at the top of all sports, particularly the second major college sport out there.

Hope this sinks in, but sometimes silence is golden.
 
Mr.B!!! said:
I don't want this to sound like I am "connected" or have a "source" or anything else, but based on personal email correspondence with the current Athletic Director at the University of Oklahoma regarding a situation that may have caused NCAA issues [foolishly], I can 100% assure you that there are people in that department that pay attention to message boards...at least OU rivals.com site for sure.

Whether it is personally Joe [I doubt it] or someone that reports to him, I am absolutely positive that they read this stuff and report. Take it for what it is worth...but I believe it to be 100% true and that comes straight from the guy at the top who within 12 hours responded to an email from a nobody OU grad such as myself, read my response, and AGAIN took time out of his day to discuss the issue and responded to my email.

FWIW, I think the above particularly holds true in a time like this. Point is, don't discount your passion for the OU MBBP, and my hunch is that Jeff Capel would not have been let go if Joe Castiglione did not share your passion and level of expectation. Again, based on personal correspondence, he expects us to be nothing less than at the top of all sports, particularly the second major college sport out there.

Hope this sinks in, but sometimes silence is golden.
Click to expand...

Good post. I agree on all points.

I will add I've emailed Joe before and he always responded except when I emailed him in December or early January imploring him to save OU basketball and fire Capel. I didn't receive a response for that one. :ez-laugh:
 
I will add I've emailed Joe before and he always responded except when I emailed him in December or early January imploring him to save OU basketball and fire Capel. I didn't receive a response for that one.
Click to expand...

He didnt respond, but he clearly took your advice. :)
 
Yep. I expect he ignores coaching advice from emails, at least as it pertains to responding to them. LOL, doesn't mean he isn't listening!
 
Sam said:
Considering I was 7, I was much more likely to want to play with my Transformers or Power Rangers toys then critique the football program.

But I will argue this, there is much more in incentive and resources to turn around the football program. Looks at the monster that is OU football, the boasters, the fans, the traditions, the recruiting, etc. OU football is one of those programs in football much more likely to pull out of a tailspin because people will do what ever it takes, because of dollar signs.

If OU basketball falls by the way side I doubt there will be much of a drive to return them to the top. I suspect many people would look at it "if it happens, it happens. If not, no skin off my nose." Especially with the great job Coach Coale has done with the womens basketball team, I could see a scenario similar to how Tennessee was before Pearl turned them around. Football first, power house womens program then who cares about mens hoops.
Click to expand...

My point was that we need to take a long view of this situation rather than just throw ourselves off the bridge after two bad seasons. Yes, the program is in a bad spot right now. However, if you look at OU football from 1992-1998, with the exception of one 9-3 season that was an absolutely horrendous stretch of seasons. That wasn't just 2 years, it was 7 years, and for one of the top college football programs in the nation. I know you were young then, but trust me, there were plenty of people saying "OU football will never be the same" during the depths of the Blake era.

That being said, it only took hiring the right guy to turn things around. Remember, we didn't go out and spend $3 mil per year at that time to bring in some big name coach. Stoops was very well respected as an assistant, but had zero head coaching experience and certainly was not considered a "slam dunk" hire.

In conclusion I think we just need to not be so quick to make statements like "OU basketball is dead". OU basketball is not dead, and will not be dead, regardless of if we hire Shaka Smart, Shaka Zulu, or Chaka Khan. We've been playing basketball for over 100 years, and we should all hope we'll be playing for at least 100 more. Two bad seasons doesn't put the program six feet under. Yes, this is a very important hire. That much is certain. Joe C. took a big risk with Capel and it didn't end up panning out. However, outside of a few crazies I would wager to say that most of us here respect Joe's ability to do his job and do it well. So, let's all step back from the ledge and let this thing play out. I have faith that we're going to get someone that can turn this thing around and do so fairly quickly.
 
Here is my "blue in the face" post again...you draw a 300 mile circle around Norman, Oklahoma, get the right guy, and you can be in the tournament every year and in the FF about once every 4 years. JMHO, but has worked in FB and BB is getting bigger and bigger inside that circle. OU is the best program in that circle, we need to start acting like it.
 
Joe set us way back with his last hire. Let's hope he brings someone in that in 5 years makes u forget that we had the last hire.
 
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