Thoughts On Maddie's Return

[Oliver Hardy]

Wanted to ask everyone what they think.

We all noted that Whitney lost some speed and quickness after her injury. She just was never the same again. She also lost a tiny bit of her touch shooting, I think.

What does everyone expect, or hope, Maddie can do next season?

We all seem to be counting on her pretty heavily to be the "it" next season.

Is that unfair? She really hasn't played all that much (but enough that she was about to be a permanent starter I think) when she was hurt the first time.

She's had two serious injuries.

Right now I'd be happy if she just could play the entire season, ease into it and be the fire that this teams need through the tournaments.

Expecting her to be D-Rob all over again in some fashion is just not logical to me -- wishful, but not logical.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Right now I'd be happy if she just could play the entire season, ease into it and be the fire that this teams need through the tournaments.

I completely agree with this sentence. Even if it hadn't been due to injury, sitting out 2 years will have an effect on her game for a while.

We don't really know much about the extent of her injuries. Whitney had to have microfracture surgery which means she had little or no cartilage left in her knee. If Maddie didn't have cartilage damage, she might be able to come back closer to 100% eventually.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Wanted to ask everyone what they think.

We all noted that Whitney lost some speed and quickness after her injury. She just was never the same again. She also lost a tiny bit of her touch shooting, I think.

What does everyone expect, or hope, Maddie can do next season?

We all seem to be counting on her pretty heavily to be the "it" next season.

Is that unfair? She really hasn't played all that much (but enough that she was about to be a permanent starter I think) when she was hurt the first time.

She's had two serious injuries.

Right now I'd be happy if she just could play the entire season, ease into it and be the fire that this teams need through the tournaments.

Expecting her to be D-Rob all over again in some fashion is just not logical to me -- wishful, but not logical.

I never got a good indication of how good she would be before she was injured the first time. At this point, I have no idea. We NEED for her to be really good but there are some question marks for sure.

 

[Soonercuda]

Risk of Reinjury After ACL Reconstruction: Letter to the Editor
K. Donald Shelbourne, MD
K. Donald Shelbourne, MD (e-mail: tgray@fixknee.com).
Dear Editor:
I read with great interest the recent article written by Myer et al1 that evaluated strength asymmetry after anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) reconstruction, and I applaud the authors for highlighting the very important point that we, as surgeons, must look critically at side-to-side differences as it pertains to return to sport and knee function. Furthermore, we must realize that strength deficits may persist over time, especially if the surgeon and physical therapist are not specifically performing objective strength testing.
However, I do want to highlight a couple of points that I believe deserve specific clarification. First, the authors state in 2 places that the “incidence of graft failure or injury to the contralateral knee may exceed 20% in young athletes who return to competitive sport”1(p2257) and that these reinjury rates occur in “just the first year after return to sport.”1(p2260) Two references are given for these statements.2,3 Unfortunately, the authors have misquoted the data from my study3 in which the ACL injury rates to either knee were reported within 5 years after surgery, not within the first year. In that study, injuries occurred to the ACL-reconstructed knee at a mean of 19 months after surgery and to the contralateral knee at a mean of 28 months after surgery. In addition, the injury rate to either knee was 4.3% in the ACL-reconstructed knee and 5.3% in the contralateral knee within 5 years after surgery. Even in the youngest group of athletes aged 18 years and younger, the injury rate to either knee was 17.4% within 5 years. Clearly, the reported incidence of over 20% in the first year after return to sport is inaccurate.
Second, the authors report that “persistent side-to-side asymmetries may increase the risk of contralateral and/or ipsilateral injury.”1(p2256) I agree completely with the authors that, if the legs do not have symmetric strength, it may predispose one side or the other to ACL injury. Yet, I think it is important to point out which knee is at risk (ACL or contralateral), whether this is different for men and women, and whether strength is protective for ACL injury. For women, we found that the knee at most risk was the contralateral normal knee,3 which is stronger after ipsilateral ACL reconstruction and has a native ACL that, on average, is smaller than the ACL graft, especially if the intercondylar notch is small. For men, the ACL-reconstructed knee appears to be at higher risk, which has an ACL graft that is, on average, similar in size to the native ACL. These data indicate that strength asymmetry between knees after ACL reconstruction puts the stronger leg with the smaller ACL at risk, especially for women.
In closing, I again applaud the authors for their continued efforts to recognize knee asymmetry after ACL reconstruction. I believe this philosophy of achieving side-to-side symmetry is a central tenet of our rehabilitation protocol that should be aggressively sought after and objectively measured in all ACL patients.
K. Donald Shelbourne, MD
Indianapolis, Indiana

 

[sybarite]

We won't know until we see how she does. I have the general impression that there has been some improvement in the success rates of ACL surgeries as has been the case with a good number of surgical procedures. It hasn't been that long since the average heart bypass patient was thought to have no more than five years to live. Now, it is thought that you would lead a normal life. We see ACL repairs that are more common and successful than they have been. I am going to make the assumption that with current rates of success and Maddie's attitude that she may well retain her original ability. In some cases, the repaired knee is stronger than the original.

As far as what I would anticipate from Maddie. I think it was AFanForHand who first saw Maddie against a top-level point guard in an AAU game in Tulsa and noticed that Maddie drove past her like she wasn't even there. She was quicker and faster than a highschool all-American point guard.

What I saw is specific glances in those three games in Hawaii prior to her injury were a couple of things that have caused me to be very excited about what she brings to the table. In one case, she drove into the lane from the left side, stopped, and shot over a forward who came out to meet her. She jumped so high (remember that she is 6-2) that her release was almost a foot above the defender's hands. She can elevate in traffic. Maybe Griner could have blocked that shot. I doubt that anyone under 6-6 could have.

The second thing that I noticed was how fast Maddie could drive. We think of DRob as being superquick. I think she is quicker than Maddie, but I'm not so sure that she is as fast as Maddie was on that drive to the basket. Of course, Maddie is 6-2, and she took two steps from the top of the key and exploded to the rim so fast that nobody could get in front of her. This was the speed that AFanfor Hand had expressed. She shot over fifty percent from the field in Hawaii once she was promoted. I think it was sixty percent. She also got a number of rebounds because she can jump.

I don't think Maddie knows how good she can be. Although highly-skilled, I think she hasn't scratched the surface of her talent. She can do things that no other player that we have had at OU can do. I don't know if she will have all of that spring. But, I kind of think she will. If so, I think Maddie will be THE star of the program by the middle of her first year. If she is back to normal, I want to see who can defend her with her attributes. I think she presents a challenge that nobody else that we have had presents.

 

[BigT14]

I think she will be ready. The beginning of the season might be shakey for her but I think she is ready. I think sitting nearly 2 years on the bench will have her fired up to play. I think she will have a good feel for the game since she has seen it up close. She may not be physically fast at first but I think she will be ready.

 

[rocjunkie]

I agree with every thing Syb stated. At the Red/White scrimmage, just before her injury, she was moving as well as the year before. Just as quick with no hesitation. Now after a second injury, I have no idea how quick or fast she will be. Just have to wait and see. However in answer to Oliver's question, I think she is the "it" we need and just hope she comes back as good as ever and leads this team. We certainly need a leader on the court, not on the bench.

 

[Stringmusic]

A Maddie at 90 percent of the original Maddie will still be a fine player - and that is where I think she will be.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Maddie had a number of injuries in high school and now has had 2 knee surgeries at OU. Hope she can remain injury free from here on because one more serious injury will likely end her career.

 

[JGSpider]

I hope Maddie can come back as we will need her. There was a lot of speculation on her coming in form HS and she moved in the starting line up at the 3 before her first injury. Don't think she ever had Drob speed but not sure that is a major factor anyway.

But for this upcoming season she will be needed to help fill major gaps left by Vegas and Morgan. Both contributed roles that will be hard to replace in one year. Vegas being our leading scorer ending her career second on the all time list in scoring and 1st in 3pt field goals. Morgan finished 5th all time in assist with over 500 assists (only the 5th player to ever do that), 3rd all time in 3pt field goals made, and 16th in scoring. In addition the leadership and on the floor coaching from Morgan will be a major gap plus both wanted the ball at the end of games and either won games for us or went down trying.

They will be missed more than any of us realize today. Can't help to feel bad for them to have a season as they did. Was clear the underclassmen just didn't get it, understand their roles, buy in, or something. Two players are never enough to win games night in and night out.

 

[sybarite]

Let's look at the three games in Hawaii that Maddie started:

OU 73 Arkansas 70
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=31000&CONTENT_ID=778278

Notice that Maddie made a key steal late in the game that helped expand the lead. Four of five from the field with eight rebounds, three assists, two turnovers. Had a block and two steals.

OU 100 Oregon 61

http://ouhoops.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=439117

Maddie is four of six from the field, one of one from three, eleven points, only three rebounds. Did have four assists, but five turnovers. Also had another steal.

OU 74 Hawaii 49

http://ouhoops.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=439117

Maddie had a slump: only five of eight from the field. That means that she was thirteen of nineteen from the field in the three games that she started. Two of three free throws means she was six of eight. Twelve points, four rebounds, one assist, two turnovers, two steals. She had 33 points and 15 rebounds in the three games, shooting at 68.4%.

In her first three games as a starter, she shot 68.4% and averaged eleven points and five rebounds. Can we use that?

 

[rocjunkie]

Let's look at the three games in Hawaii that Maddie started:

OU 73 Arkansas 70
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=31000&CONTENT_ID=778278

Notice that Maddie made a key steal late in the game that helped expand the lead. Four of five from the field with eight rebounds, three assists, two turnovers. Had a block and two steals.

OU 100 Oregon 61

http://ouhoops.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=439117

Maddie is four of six from the field, one of one from three, eleven points, only three rebounds. Did have four assists, but five turnovers. Also had another steal.

OU 74 Hawaii 49

http://ouhoops.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=439117

Maddie had a slump: only five of eight from the field. That means that she was thirteen of nineteen from the field in the three games that she started. Two of three free throws means she was six of eight. Twelve points, four rebounds, one assist, two turnovers, two steals. She had 33 points and 15 rebounds in the three games, shooting at 68.4%.

In her first three games as a starter, she shot 68.4% and averaged eleven points and five rebounds. Can we use that?

Hell yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :woot

 

[tycat947]

I agree with every thing Syb stated. At the Red/White scrimmage, just before her injury, she was moving as well as the year before. Just as quick with no hesitation. Now after a second injury, I have no idea how quick or fast she will be. Just have to wait and see. However in answer to Oliver's question, I think she is the "it" we need and just hope she comes back as good as ever and leads this team. We certainly need a leader on the court, not on the bench.

That's the same thing I saw at scrimmage. Still agressive and didn't look bothered at all. Doesn't really mean anything with regards to second injury other than she must have rehabbed very well and/or surgery was extreme success. If second knee heals as well as first, she will be ok although not playing basketball for the most part of 2 years will put her behind.