Three most commonly misunderstood calls during a basketball game . . .

[SoonerNorm]

I think there are some officials out there who know the rules, but when they get into the flow of a game they just kind of lose sight of what the actual rule is. I love when a defender puts his arms straight up and never moves his feet and the offensive player jumps into him and the defender's arms go slightly forward and the refs call the foul. I guess some refs just deem any contact a foul.

That is really a pet peeve of mine too!

 

[brettromar]

Not to be a jerk, but how does someone start a post about calls refs miss all the time and then list one that everyone knows is wrong. The count for 5 seconds ends when the ball is released. That is why you never see the throw in from under the basket 5 seconds when at the last second they throw the ball deep into back court and the player tracks it down.

This is the type of thing coaches deal with on a consistent basis in meetings with parents who believe they know more than the coaches.

You need proof I looked it up for you. There is a reason those refs stop counting when the ball is released, that is what they are supposed to do.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Upl...08-09fb2fc956-7592-4877-993e-dae20a6f90ed.pdf

The rules that too many people don't understand are the over and back rule and all 3 points. They also don't understand the top of the backboard is NOT out of bounds. I can't tell you how many times I hear people yell, "IT'S OUT OF BOUNDS, IT HIT THE TOP OF THE BACKBOARD!" I just have to shake my head at them.

The last few years I have also heard some real brain surgeons yell 3 seconds during an out of bounds play before the ball is thrown in.

 

[luckyc1423]

Not to be a jerk, but how does someone start a post about calls refs miss all the time and then list one that everyone knows is wrong. The count for 5 seconds ends when the ball is released. That is why you never see the throw in from under the basket 5 seconds when at the last second they throw the ball deep into back court and the player tracks it down.

Lol that is so true I was thinking the same thing. Refs dont make it to the college level unless they know the rules...maybe, the person who posted this thread is a college official or should apply for the job

The actual ruling for # 3 is below:

A five-second throw-in violation occurs if, during a throw-in, the ball is not released (passed) by the player inbounding the ball before five seconds have elapsed since the inbounding player was handed the ball.[1] The game/shot clock(s) will not start until the ball is legally touched inbounds.

Penalty
The penalty for a five-second violation is loss of ball. The opposing team will throw-in the ball from the out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation.

 

[campbest]

Not to be a jerk, but how does someone start a post about calls refs miss all the time and then list one that everyone knows is wrong. The count for 5 seconds ends when the ball is released. That is why you never see the throw in from under the basket 5 seconds when at the last second they throw the ball deep into back court and the player tracks it down.

This is the type of thing coaches deal with on a consistent basis in meetings with parents who believe they know more than the coaches.

You need proof I looked it up for you. There is a reason those refs stop counting when the ball is released, that is what they are supposed to do.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Upl...08-09fb2fc956-7592-4877-993e-dae20a6f90ed.pdf

The rules that too many people don't understand are the over and back rule and all 3 points. They also don't understand the top of the backboard is NOT out of bounds. I can't tell you how many times I hear people yell, "IT'S OUT OF BOUNDS, IT HIT THE TOP OF THE BACKBOARD!" I just have to shake my head at them.

The last few years I have also heard some real brain surgeons yell 3 seconds during an out of bounds play before the ball is thrown in.

For a sport that is so widely popular as basketball, I am constantly amazed how many people don't know the rules...the over the back reference is a good one too.

 

[perryj74]

The ones that amaze me, and you mostly hear them at high school games, are the lack of understanding of the 3 and 5 second rules. I don't know how many times I've heard someone yelling for a 5 second call in the backcourt or for a 3 second call as someone is doing their best Courtney Paris impression by collecting 2 rebounds for every basket made.

I'm the jerk that most of the time will try to turn around and explain the rule if the person is near me. It never fails the person who knows the least yells the loudest.

 

[McG78]

Lol that is so true I was thinking the same thing. Refs dont make it to the college level unless they know the rules...maybe, the person who posted this thread is a college official or should apply for the job

The actual ruling for # 3 is below:

A five-second throw-in violation occurs if, during a throw-in, the ball is not released (passed) by the player inbounding the ball before five seconds have elapsed since the inbounding player was handed the ball.[1] The game/shot clock(s) will not start until the ball is legally touched inbounds.

Penalty
The penalty for a five-second violation is loss of ball. The opposing team will throw-in the ball from the out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation.

I've had this discussion with many a college ref (and a few NBA refs), and they all come to see the light. The rule isn't saying what it appears to be saying. What the rule is saying is something similar to a shot clock/end of game situation where if the player releases the ball before the expiration of the shot clock/game time, the shot counts. The critical point is the time the ball leaves the players hand. But the confusion can be cleared up by one examples. If the inbounding player turned and dropped the ball next to him so that it continued to bounce, could the ball theoritically bounce forever without a five second violation? The obvious answer is no because the ball has not been inbounded.

So there are two critical times in an inbounds play. One relating to the release and another when it is touched. If the inbounder releases the ball before the expiration of five seconds and the ball is touched within a reasonable time, there is no violation. But if the ball isn't touched within a reasonable time, the inbounding team has gained an advantage by not having time tick of the clock. Both points are critical. The rule was purely drafted to assume a touch within a reasonable time and not advantage. But both aren't true in practice.

 

[luckyc1423]

I've had this discussion with many a college ref (and a few NBA refs), and they all come to see the light. The rule isn't saying what it appears to be saying. What the rule is saying is something similar to a shot clock/end of game situation where if the player releases the ball before the expiration of the shot clock/game time, the shot counts. The critical point is the time the ball leaves the players hand. But the confusion can be cleared up by one examples. If the inbounding player turned and dropped the ball next to him so that it continued to bounce, could the ball theoritically bounce forever without a five second violation? The obvious answer is no because the ball has not been inbounded.

So there are two critical times in an inbounds play. One relating to the release and another when it is touched. If the inbounder releases the ball before the expiration of five seconds and the ball is touched within a reasonable time, there is no violation. But if the ball isn't touched within a reasonable time, the inbounding team has gained an advantage by not having time tick of the clock. Both points are critical. The rule was purely drafted to assume a touch within a reasonable time and not advantage. But both aren't true in practice.

hmmm....interesting....well if what you say is true then that is never called and should be! because like you said most teams use this to their advantage at the end of games

 

[DenverSooner]

I've had this discussion with many a college ref (and a few NBA refs), and they all come to see the light. The rule isn't saying what it appears to be saying. What the rule is saying is something similar to a shot clock/end of game situation where if the player releases the ball before the expiration of the shot clock/game time, the shot counts. The critical point is the time the ball leaves the players hand. But the confusion can be cleared up by one examples. If the inbounding player turned and dropped the ball next to him so that it continued to bounce, could the ball theoritically bounce forever without a five second violation? The obvious answer is no because the ball has not been inbounded.

So there are two critical times in an inbounds play. One relating to the release and another when it is touched. If the inbounder releases the ball before the expiration of five seconds and the ball is touched within a reasonable time, there is no violation. But if the ball isn't touched within a reasonable time, the inbounding team has gained an advantage by not having time tick of the clock. Both points are critical. The rule was purely drafted to assume a touch within a reasonable time and not advantage. But both aren't true in practice.

Doesn't the ball leaving the players hands and touching the floor out of bounds (bouncing) constitute a turn over and therefore make your example not applicable?

Surely you have seen an inbounds pass ruled a turn over where it hits the base line or out of bounds?

 

[DenverSooner]

I don't think that 5 second rule post is correct, all the officials I am with (most of which do college or 5A here in Texas) have never called that.

Besides, an official wouldn't call that anyway...no advantage.

That is the dumbest thing official do. The rule is a the rule. If I hack a guy but he makes the shot, I got no advantage and he should not get a three point play under the no advantage rule. What this no advantage "rule" does is allow the referee (or judge) substitute his opinon of the rules (or law) for the actual rules (or law).

If I am an official and I see contact, under your rule I get to decide if there was an "advantage" gained. The home crowd is rocking, the home defender is in the guys grill slightly bumping and slightly touching the guy so I decide it is not an advantage and let it go (because I am influenced by the crowd). Next trip the home team has the ball and the other team is doing the exact same thing, the crowd is yelling at me and I decide it must be an advantage so I call a foul. That is BS. It is a foul or it isn't a foul. Do your best to be objective and consistent and don't try to add rules to the game.

 

[brettromar]

It is when the BALL IS PASS INBOUNDS. If they drop the ball then it wouldn't have crossed the line. The count STOPS when the ball enters play and is released by the offense.

You can attepmt to manipulate it but that is just stupid in my opinion. The rule states the ball MUST BE THROWN DIRECTLY INTO THE PLAYING COURT. Dropping the ball doesn't fit here. It doesn't say you have to throw it right to someone.

If the ball is inbounded before 5 seconds, then it is not a violation. Sorry, that is how it is written and supposed to be called.

 

[SoonerNorm]

That is the dumbest thing official do. The rule is a the rule. If I hack a guy but he makes the shot, I got no advantage and he should not get a three point play under the no advantage rule. What this no advantage "rule" does is allow the referee (or judge) substitute his opinon of the rules (or law) for the actual rules (or law).

If I am an official and I see contact, under your rule I get to decide if there was an "advantage" gained. The home crowd is rocking, the home defender is in the guys grill slightly bumping and slightly touching the guy so I decide it is not an advantage and let it go (because I am influenced by the crowd). Next trip the home team has the ball and the other team is doing the exact same thing, the crowd is yelling at me and I decide it must be an advantage so I call a foul. That is BS. It is a foul or it isn't a foul. Do your best to be objective and consistent and don't try to add rules to the game.

Denver, I agree with you but I will add one more thing that galls me...if a player is fouled, it should not matter if it occurs in the first 2 seconds of a game or the last 2 seconds of the game...blow the darn whistle! I hate the argument at the end of the game that officials should lay off their whistles and let the players decide the game. A foul is a foul any time it occurs and officials should call it that way.

 

[DenverSooner]

Denver, I agree with you but I will add one more thing that galls me...if a player is fouled, it should not matter if it occurs in the first 2 seconds of a game or the last 2 seconds of the game...blow the darn whistle! I hate the argument at the end of the game that officials should lay off their whistles and let the players decide the game. A foul is a foul any time it occurs and officials should call it that way.

Exactly. The notion that officials should not alter the outcome in the final seconds is a freaking joke. The rules are the rules, call the game consistently.

 

[campbest]

That is the dumbest thing official do. The rule is a the rule. If I hack a guy but he makes the shot, I got no advantage and he should not get a three point play under the no advantage rule. What this no advantage "rule" does is allow the referee (or judge) substitute his opinon of the rules (or law) for the actual rules (or law).

If I am an official and I see contact, under your rule I get to decide if there was an "advantage" gained. The home crowd is rocking, the home defender is in the guys grill slightly bumping and slightly touching the guy so I decide it is not an advantage and let it go (because I am influenced by the crowd). Next trip the home team has the ball and the other team is doing the exact same thing, the crowd is yelling at me and I decide it must be an advantage so I call a foul. That is BS. It is a foul or it isn't a foul. Do your best to be objective and consistent and don't try to add rules to the game.

That is the whole goal, and all the top officials do a pretty good job at that. If I see someone getting "hacked" as you put it, then yes, there is an automatic foul coming from my whistle. But getting "hacked" and light contact or incidental contact are two different things. Someone going up for a shot is a completely different instance than say dribbling up the court through some pressure. You have to remember, the defender has just as much right to any spot on the floor as the dribbler...why award the offensive player because there is light contact which is probably being intitiated by them? Why should I call a foul on a deflected pass on the offensive team when it looks like the defender is going to be able run through a reach after the deflection and race for a lay-up? Technically, the person who picked up the deflection got fouled on the reach, but that would have negated two points.

Another good example that fans don't understand is traveling, which could take a whole separate thread to explain.

 

[campbest]

Also to add about the "dumbest thing an official can do" statement...most of the teams I officiate here in Dallas know that I played collegiately and coached at the younger levels (middle school). If a coach asks why I didn't call that "bump" on the press when they had the ball, I just simply say "hey, coach, your player isn't going to get that call as they progress. They need to learn you can't dribble through 3 defenders by yourself in the backcourt. Learn to hit the middle and look opposite."

Not once has a coach argued with me, because they know it's a weak call and only disrupts the flow of the game...in addition, only hinders their player's development.

 

[AdaSooner]

btw wikipedia agrees with me. the five second count ends when the inbounding player lets go of the ball, but the game clock doesn't start until it is touched by someone in bounds.

Bob is correct. The five second call ends when the ball leaves the hands of the player in-bounding the ball. The game clock doesn't start until the ball is touched on the court.

EDIT: The five second rule doesn't always apply to Duke. lol I was watching a Duke game on television a couple of weeks ago and the count went to seven seconds before the ball was released. Seriously. I played it back twice and counted off the time.

 

[Section31]

I just hate a ref ASSUMING a foul/violation was committed.

I'm watching an NBA game the other night. A shot from team A goes up. The post player from team A goes up to ensure the ball doesn't come off the rim. Now, he gets close to the ball, but never touches it (the replay confirmed it). The ref calls basket interference and wipes off the basket. Just plain HORRIBLE.

I wish in instances like this, they'd stop the game, pull the official to half court, drop down a HUGE HD display and replay the call. Then ask the moron why he made the call he made. If he even mentions, "well, I SAW...", I think he should be stoned.

IF YOU DON'T SEE IT, DON'T CALL IT!!!!!

 

[Sooner Quick]

Inconsistency is my biggest beef. Like Norm said it its a foul at the start of a game it is at the end and should be called. I've also seen numerous times where an official will blow the whistle anticipating a foul on a breakaway basket and the defender never even lays a hand on the player yet the defender is called for a foul.