Trammel says Mark Price best OK player ever BUT

I dont get where people think the NBA is weaker today. If anything it's much stronger today.
 
soonerfud said:
Sorry guys, I love Tis as much as anybody, but Price is hands down the best player to come out of the Oklahoma high school ranks!!! Now Blake may have something to say about that before he's done, but not yet. Price was incredible, and if not for playing the point and trying to be a great facilitator, he could have been a great scorer. Still the best shooter I've ever seen in person. Shot was like a machine, just perfect every time. And I agree, if not for the greatness of MJ, he'd have a couple of rings!!
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Fud, no way brother. Alot of people on this board never got to see Tis. I have watched ALL these being mentioned and I guarantee you Tis was the best. All of them were great BUT, like said by someone on this thread, Tis ALWAYS had 2 defenders on him and many times had 3 and every once in a while 4. If Price had 2 defenders on him all the time he wouldn't have been able to get his shot off - or rarely. I went to church for a year with his dad and brother and I really like Mark, BUT he never faced the double and triple teams.

Also, for those saying Mark had a better pro career, remember Tis played on poor teams and out of position alot of the time. It makes a difference in the pros if you are surrounded by quality - makes getting your shot much easier. They also had almost identical numbers over their careers, fyi.

Also remember, Michael Jordan stated that Tis was one of the best scorers he had ever known, I'll take MJ's word over anyone on this board.
 
jmizzy4ou said:
Like so many have already said, it depends on the criteria being used. If it's college players from OK, then WWT is the best, and it's not even close. No college player ever garnered the defensive attention Wayman got each night. The guy often had 3 or 4 defenders shadowing him. Even elite players li9ke Karl Malone didn't try to guard him one on one on the low blocks.

Mark Price had a much better pro career, and Blake will probably pass him. Hard to say who was the single best, with the differences in era, etc. As Syb said, most here are probably too young to have seen Alvan Adams play. He also was very good. As far as dominance, college level Wayman may have been the most dominant ever......
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I agree with this. I think Adams was also a more dominant college player than Price. Price, however, was steady and solid all the way from high school through the NBA.

Wayman was just not tall enough to excel in the NBA.
 
Some Pro Stats: Adams----Tisdale----Price

Games: 988---840---722
Points scored: 13,910---12,878---10,989
Rebounds: 6937---5917---1848
Assists: 4012---1077---4863
Steals: 1289---464---860
Blocks: 808---500---76
Seasons in Playoffs: 9---4---7
Playoff Games: 78---22---47
 
coolm said:
Closer to Maravich? You need to bite your tongue there. Pete Maravich was the greatest scorer in the history of college basketball. The court was his range and he didn't even have the benefit of the 3. He had absolutely nothing around him and still scored over 44 ppg.

NO ONE compares to Pete Maravich.
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And yet, no one considers him amongst the best college basketball players ever.

Edit: meant to say NBA, and I was apparantly wrong there too, and he inexplicably made the NBA's 50 greatest players of all time some years back.
 
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MI Sooner said:
I'd love for this to be true, but he had talent around him and still never made a final four. His All American stats were a product of the system, and while he was great, it's laughable to consider him in the same class of college players as Kareem or Walton. He's closer to Maravich.
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Agree to disagree. Never heard Tisdale referred to as a product of the system before. :D I can't think of any other Sooner post player as dominant. Stacy King scored on the block very well, but was mostly guarded by single guys, and an occasional double. Tisdale never saw single coverage after his 1st game at UNLV.

Of course an argument can always be made for Kareem, Walton, and others. Kareem's pro numbers are arguably the best ever as well. He never gets mentioned as the greatest because most didn't like him....
 
jmizzy4ou said:
Agree to disagree. Never heard Tisdale referred to as a product of the system before. :D I can't think of any other Sooner post player as dominant. Stacy King scored on the block very well, but was mostly guarded by single guys, and an occasional double. Tisdale never saw single coverage after his 1st game at UNLV.

Of course an argument can always be made for Kareem, Walton, and others. Kareem's pro numbers are arguably the best ever as well. He never gets mentioned as the greatest because most didn't like him....
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A product of a system? Would that be a system where he was routinely double and finally triple teamed? A system where he was constantly mugged, held, and grabbed? A system where he, at what 6'7-8" was playing the post? A system where had he had a guard like Price on the outside we'd have been unstoppable? Does anyone remember seeing that ball go in and seeing those arms reach up, grab the ball, and then take it right back up? I've never seen anyone play on a pogo stick like he did. Three time AA. Three time Big 8 POY. Price can carry Wayman's bags if he wants.

I also saw Adams play. I usually put him and Tisdale as 1A and 1B. Adams was a mobile big man who if coming up today would probably be bringing the ball up and shooting threes. His teams were plagued by the fact that we couldn't get the ball up the court. Fast Eddie Fields anyone?

And as far as Pistol Pete it was a joke when he was in college. His pro career was held down by his demons but if he was playing today in the world of no defense he's be unstoppable.
 
KCRuf/Nek said:
A product of a system? Would that be a system where he was routinely double and finally triple teamed? A system where he was constantly mugged, held, and grabbed? A system where he, at what 6'7-8" was playing the post? A system where had he had a guard like Price on the outside we'd have been unstoppable? Does anyone remember seeing that ball go in and seeing those arms reach up, grab the ball, and then take it right back up? I've never seen anyone play on a pogo stick like he did. Three time AA. Three time Big 8 POY. Price can carry Wayman's bags if he wants.

I also saw Adams play. I usually put him and Tisdale as 1A and 1B. Adams was a mobile big man who if coming up today would probably be bringing the ball up and shooting threes. His teams were plagued by the fact that we couldn't get the ball up the court. Fast Eddie Fields anyone?

And as far as Pistol Pete it was a joke when he was in college. His pro career was held down by his demons but if he was playing today in the world of no defense he's be unstoppable.
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Good post. I couldn't choose between Alvan and Wayman.
 
jmizzy4ou said:
Like so many have already said, it depends on the criteria being used. If it's college players from OK, then WWT is the best, and it's not even close. No college player ever garnered the defensive attention Wayman got each night. The guy often had 3 or 4 defenders shadowing him. Even elite players li9ke Karl Malone didn't try to guard him one on one on the low blocks.

Mark Price had a much better pro career, and Blake will probably pass him. Hard to say who was the single best, with the differences in era, etc. As Syb said, most here are probably too young to have seen Alvan Adams play. He also was very good. As far as dominance, college level Wayman may have been the most dominant ever......
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Yea the criteria is very important.

Another thing to note is if you are just going on "player" without the caveat of someone actually playing in college or NBA, or graduating high school for that matter you bring in a whole other group of people. I'm not as up on guys from Oklahoma like this, but growing up and playing in Chicago there are a couple of guys who would be in the discussion that only Chicagoans would know of best pure "players" from Illinois. There are guys who if they had half a brain or were born 2 miles further East that could have been Hall of Famers who never stepped foot on a college campus and barely a high school gym.

The best player I've ever seen in person is Clint Baker from Madison, Illinois which is actually near St. Louis but he lived in Chicago for awhile. His cousin Mo Baker played at OSU. Biggest waste of talent I've ever seen. Just incredible what that fool could do.

Note: If you ever happen upon Madison, Illinois, drive quickly.
 
Nobody considers Pete Maravich among the best? LOL - I know MANY who consider him among the best. Abe Lemons and Don Haskins both said he was the best. I heard them ... and I trust their opinions.
 
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A guy who shot 44% from the field and whose team never made the NCAA tournament is not one of the best players ever in a sport where dominant individual players can carry their teams to victory. he shot 37-38 times a game (not counting attempts on which he was fouled). Shooting 44% when you shoot that much as a guard is impressive, but amongst the best ever? He didn't play a lick of defense, his teams sucked, and his career NBA PER is outside the top 100 (only playing 10 years) and his win shares is outside the top 250.

I can see why people would put him amongst the top college players ever (although I'd disagree) but don't see how anyone could do so in the NBA.
 
coolm said:
Nobody considers Pete Maravich among the best? LOL - I know MANY who consider him among the best. Abe Lemons and Don Haskins both said he was the best. I heard them ... and I trust their opinions.
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Was Pete from Oklahoma? I thought he was from the East, Ohio or Penn.

Edit: I see the other discussion about Maravich, nvm CoolM
 
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playmakr said:
Yea the criteria is very important.

Another thing to note is if you are just going on "player" without the caveat of someone actually playing in college or NBA, or graduating high school for that matter you bring in a whole other group of people. I'm not as up on guys from Oklahoma like this, but growing up and playing in Chicago there are a couple of guys who would be in the discussion that only Chicagoans would know of best pure "players" from Illinois. There are guys who if they had half a brain or were born 2 miles further East that could have been Hall of Famers who never stepped foot on a college campus and barely a high school gym.

The best player I've ever seen in person is Clint Baker from Madison, Illinois which is actually near St. Louis but he lived in Chicago for awhile. His cousin Mo Baker played at OSU. Biggest waste of talent I've ever seen. Just incredible what that fool could do.

Note: If you ever happen upon Madison, Illinois, drive quickly.
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The world - not just sports - is full of very talented people that don't make it. I remember a kid named Ricky Ross from Wichita that was two years behind me. He went to KU and then WSU before washing out.
 
MI Sooner said:
A guy who shot 44% from the field and whose team never made the NCAA tournament is not one of the best players ever in a sport where dominant individual players can carry their teams to victory. he shot 37-38 times a game (not counting attempts on which he was fouled). Shooting 44% when you shoot that much as a guard is impressive, but amongst the best ever? He didn't play a lick of defense, his teams sucked, and his career NBA PER is outside the top 100 (only playing 10 years) and his win shares is outside the top 250.

I can see why people would put him amongst the top college players ever (although I'd disagree) but don't see how anyone could do so in the NBA.
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He never gave himself a chance in the NBA.
 
I don't know that the NBA has yet caught up with Pistol Pete. He was so far ahead of everyone else in the sport in both college and the pros. You can't even explain the passes, the shots, the attitude in order to convey his greatness to others.

No one compares to Maravich.

He wasn't from Oklahoma. Someone was trying to compare Wayman to him.
 
Tramel thinks being excessively counter-intuitive makes people and especially Okies believe he's really smart. that's his whole thing balanced with a lot of aw shucks ain't we downhome and love thick cream gravy mashed potatoes with our chicken fried steak Oklahomans at the end of the day schtick. and we do, and that's cool.

he also likes to appear impartial to a strong degree and will spite faces to cut off his nose....because, again, he thinks that makes him seem like he's the serious incorruptible journalist in a small pond of homers.

i don't dislike Berry really, just things you need to know in advance before reading anything he writes.

Mark Price was a great player....but his career at G Tech or on a perennial 2nd place NBA team is nothing compared to what Waymon did at OU. in terms of state impact. so, sometimes Berry wants us to believe in Oklahoma criteria or sometimes "how the big wide world" sees things.

it's a rhetorical plasticity.

sometimes small town logic, sometimes big town logic.
 
Does one have to be born in Oklahoma to make that list? If so, that eliminates WWT.
 
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