Ultimate Sportsmanship

[soonerstar]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsext...cle_b52d52bd-5176-5a10-886a-83fa7e485494.html

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Thanks for sharing that with us soonerstar.

That's a great story - and says lots about the Tulsa coach and staff.

 

[BlackwellSooner]

Yeah, good story.

I used to live in Wichita many years ago, back in the mid/late sixties, and I used to go to a lot of Wichita games. Back then, Tulsa and Cincinnati were both in the Missouri Valley - known around the country as the Valley of Death, for good reason - and watched a lot of good basketball. Men's game, of course, the women basketball hadn't even begun to catch on at that time.

Question: when did Tulsa and Cincinnati exit the Missouri Valley?

 

[YCN]

Yeah, good story.

I used to live in Wichita many years ago, back in the mid/late sixties, and I used to go to a lot of Wichita games. Back then, Tulsa and Cincinnati were both in the Missouri Valley - known around the country as the Valley of Death, for good reason - and watched a lot of good basketball. Men's game, of course, the women basketball hadn't even begun to catch on at that time.

Question: when did Tulsa and Cincinnati exit the Missouri Valley?

Tulsa left the MVC because they were the only school in the conference that played (at that time) Division I-A football. That made them essentially a football independent inside a conference that played a lower tier of football. The rest of the conference was Division I-AA.

Here are their most recent conference affiliations:

1935-1985 Missouri Valley Conference
1986-1995 Division I-A Independent
1996-2004 Western Athletic Conference
2005-2013 Conference USA
2014-20XX American Athletic Conference

I don't know why Cincy left the MVC, but they are a large school and maybe were planning on moving to Division I-A.

Here are their most recent affiliations:

1935-1985 Missouri Valley Conference
1986-1995 Division I-A Independent
1996-2004 Western Athletic Conference
2005-2013 Conference USA
2014-20XX American Athletic Conference

What's really interesting is that TU and Cincy have had the exact same conference affiliations for the last 80 years!!!!!

Joined at the waist?

 

[womenssports]

This was the right thing to do. I don't see it as "ultimate sportsmanship." I see so many things online being hailed as such great sportsmanship when it is just the decent thing to do. No heroics, just basic human decency. Plus, if Cincinnati is late or doesn't make it, then Tulsa doesn't get to play.

I think the Tulsa coach said it best, "It was the right thing to do."

With that said, I do appreciate having the opportunity to read the story.

That is the thing with sports....people go overboard and make unreasonable statements about what is heroic and what is not. And, I don't mean to attack anyone here, whether they do or don't do this. I am expressing an opinion which I believe is important to examine and that opinion is our perspective on sports and heroes. It isn't a big deal in this little online website here, but do not think it hurts to bring a different perspective.

 

[BlackwellSooner]

One of the enduring memories of mine was the night that I watched Wichita and Cincy play in the Roundhouse. That was the night that Oscar Robertson, the Big O, led his Bearcats to a thrilling overtime victory over the Shockers. The building was literally vibrating, the noise level was awesome! GREAT basketball!

He was the greatest basketball player I ever witnessed. He was so-o-o smooth, everything that he did, he made it look easy!
And if anyone wants to argue that he was the greatest player ever, one only has to mention that he is the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for the entire 1961-1962 season.

OK, I have hijacked this thread enough, sorry about that... I got carried away with the memory!

EDIT: Lest anyone want to know, I hadn't yet moved to Wichita at the time of the above game.

 

[womenssports]

One of the enduring memories of mine was the night that I watched Wichita and Cincy play in the Roundhouse. That was the night that Oscar Robertson, the Big O, led his Bearcats to a thrilling overtime victory over the Shockers. The building was literally vibrating, the noise level was awesome! GREAT basketball!

He was the greatest basketball player I ever witnessed. He was so-o-o smooth, everything that he did, he made it look easy!
And if anyone wants to argue that he was the greatest player ever, one only has to mention that he is the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for the entire 1961-1962 season.

OK, I have hijacked this thread enough, sorry about that... I got carried away with the memory!

EDIT: Lest anyone want to know, I hadn't yet moved to Wichita at the time of the above game.

But do you think Oscar Robertson was a good basketball player?

 

[SilliSooner]

But do you think Oscar Robertson was a good basketball player?

The Big O was a super player with great court vision, strength, big hands, average jumping ability and darn near fundamentally perfect. Of the players playing today, the one Oscar reminds me of most is Tyreke Evans, both in looks and size.

If you look at old films of Robertson you'll swear he's not moving very fast and he wasn't. He's not going at today's pace and he wasn't a fancy dribbler. His crossover didn't blow you away but he had a dangerous first step.

 

[womenssports]

The Big O was a super player with great court vision, strength, big hands, average jumping ability and darn near fundamentally perfect. Of the players playing today, the one Oscar reminds me of most is Tyreke Evans, both in looks and size.

If you look at old films of Robertson you'll swear he's not moving very fast and he wasn't. He's not going at today's pace and he wasn't a fancy dribbler. His crossover didn't blow you away but he had a dangerous first step.

I have heard about him but don't remember ever seeing him play. I believe I have seen him on tv at some awards ceremony. I would love to have seen some of the legends of old play. I imagine I might be able to find some video on youtube.

 

[BlackwellSooner]

But do you think Oscar Robertson was a good basketball player?

.
I know (I think) that you are joking, but if you aren't, I will throw in an additional set of statistics:

Robertson not only (as I posted earlier) averaged a triple-double in '61-'62, but he averaged a triple-double for the first five years that he was in the NBA! 30.3 ppg, 10.4 rebounds pg & 10.6 assists pg average for those years.
For his career, he had 181 triple-doubles, a record that has never come close to being approached.
Consider all this in the perspective that this was before the 3 point play.

I still will maintain that he was indeed the greatest!

Anyone who loves basketball would have loved to see him perform.

 

[sybarite]

The greatest? I think he was the best shot-maker in basketball at the time. He could do what nobody else could do at the time. But, I think he has to share the greatest with Wilt. You just don't score an average of fifty points per game while leading the league in rebounds and blocked shots. He was the first big man athlete.

Now, if they had had the media and marketing that came later, Jordan and LeBron would pale in comparison. They were that much better than their competition and didn't need marketing to create the difference.

 

[womenssports]

.
I know (I think) that you are joking, but if you aren't, I will throw in an additional set of statistics:

Robertson not only (as I posted earlier) averaged a triple-double in '61-'62, but he averaged a triple-double for the first five years that he was in the NBA! 30.3 ppg, 10.4 rebounds pg & 10.6 assists pg average for those years.
For his career, he had 181 triple-doubles, a record that has never come close to being approached.
Consider all this in the perspective that this was before the 3 point play.

I still will maintain that he was indeed the greatest!

Anyone who loves basketball would have loved to see him perform.

I was joking but it was because it is nice to hear people enthusiastic about the athletes who came before. Not only were most not as big, but they did have access to the equipment, trainers, nutrition, knowledge, travel and accommodations that athletes have today; so I really appreciate what they were able to accomplish.

 

[BlackwellSooner]

The greatest? I think he was the best shot-maker in basketball at the time. He could do what nobody else could do at the time. But, I think he has to share the greatest with Wilt. You just don't score an average of fifty points per game while leading the league in rebounds and blocked shots. He was the first big man athlete.

Now, if they had had the media and marketing that came later, Jordan and LeBron would pale in comparison. They were that much better than their competition and didn't need marketing to create the difference.

No doubt that Wilt was the greatest scorer: his height and athleticism ensured that he would be great at shot-blocking, rebounding and scoring. Though, to be fair, Wilt did not shoot an overwhelming percentage of his shots as dunks, using instead a finger-roll and lots of short fallaways.
But in terms of being the greatest, that encompasses much more than just scoring and rebounding.
Except for his 100 point game, when he remarkably and atypically discovered how to shoot a free throw (28 out of 32 - this from an abysmal percentage that hovered around 50%!) he was not a particularly good shooter; he owed his scoring prowess to his height and his athleticism.

In terms of excellence in all phases of the game, Oscar was far superior, IMO. You want assists? Rebounding? Scoring? Free-throw shooting? All while making it look effortless? Oscar was your man.

I repeat my assertion: Oscar Robertson was the greatest, the most complete ballplayer I ever saw.

I loved it when Oscar was traded to Milwaukee, and fans were treated to not one but two all-time greats in the Bit O and Kareem, nee Lew Alcindor.

Enough, I'm probably boring some of the younger fans on here...

 

[SoonerNorm]

No doubt that Wilt was the greatest scorer: his height and athleticism ensured that he would be great at shot-blocking, rebounding and scoring. Though, to be fair, Wilt did not shoot an overwhelming percentage of his shots as dunks, using instead a finger-roll and lots of short fallaways.
But in terms of being the greatest, that encompasses much more than just scoring and rebounding.
Except for his 100 point game, when he remarkably and atypically discovered how to shoot a free throw (28 out of 32 - this from an abysmal percentage that hovered around 50%!) he was not a particularly good shooter; he owed his scoring prowess to his height and his athleticism.

In terms of excellence in all phases of the game, Oscar was far superior, IMO. You want assists? Rebounding? Scoring? Free-throw shooting? All while making it look effortless? Oscar was your man.

I repeat my assertion: Oscar Robertson was the greatest, the most complete ballplayer I ever saw.

I loved it when Oscar was traded to Milwaukee, and fans were treated to not one but two all-time greats in the Bit O and Kareem, nee Lew Alcindor.

Enough, I'm probably boring some of the younger fans on here...

Good stuff, thanks!

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

No doubt that Wilt was the greatest scorer: his height and athleticism ensured that he would be great at shot-blocking, rebounding and scoring. Though, to be fair, Wilt did not shoot an overwhelming percentage of his shots as dunks, using instead a finger-roll and lots of short fallaways.
But in terms of being the greatest, that encompasses much more than just scoring and rebounding.
Except for his 100 point game, when he remarkably and atypically discovered how to shoot a free throw (28 out of 32 - this from an abysmal percentage that hovered around 50%!) he was not a particularly good shooter; he owed his scoring prowess to his height and his athleticism.

In terms of excellence in all phases of the game, Oscar was far superior, IMO. You want assists? Rebounding? Scoring? Free-throw shooting? All while making it look effortless? Oscar was your man.

I repeat my assertion: Oscar Robertson was the greatest, the most complete ballplayer I ever saw.

I loved it when Oscar was traded to Milwaukee, and fans were treated to not one but two all-time greats in the Bit O and Kareem, nee Lew Alcindor.

Enough, I'm probably boring some of the younger fans on here...

Wilt holds a huge number of all time NBA records to this day.

In fact when some were knocking him about assists, saying he could just score and rebound, he just went out and led the league in assists the next year.

Wilt could do it all. There is a video of him standing in the corner near the baseline, taking ONE step, and dunking the ball. We have never seen anyone like him.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Wilt was also extremely strong.

 

[sybarite]

No doubt that Wilt was the greatest scorer: his height and athleticism ensured that he would be great at shot-blocking, rebounding and scoring. Though, to be fair, Wilt did not shoot an overwhelming percentage of his shots as dunks, using instead a finger-roll and lots of short fallaways.
But in terms of being the greatest, that encompasses much more than just scoring and rebounding.
Except for his 100 point game, when he remarkably and atypically discovered how to shoot a free throw (28 out of 32 - this from an abysmal percentage that hovered around 50%!) he was not a particularly good shooter; he owed his scoring prowess to his height and his athleticism.

In terms of excellence in all phases of the game, Oscar was far superior, IMO. You want assists? Rebounding? Scoring? Free-throw shooting? All while making it look effortless? Oscar was your man.

I repeat my assertion: Oscar Robertson was the greatest, the most complete ballplayer I ever saw.

I loved it when Oscar was traded to Milwaukee, and fans were treated to not one but two all-time greats in the Bit O and Kareem, nee Lew Alcindor.

Enough, I'm probably boring some of the younger fans on here...

I'll challenge you on that. Remember that I am a huge Oscar Robertson fan, and he is right there with Wilt. But, they are different players. If I had one around which to build a team, they don't make seven-footers that are athletic that often.

Wilt didn't just lead the league, he dominated it. The seven highest rebounding seasons in history were all by Wilt. He is by far the leading rebounder of all time. Four of the top five scoring seasons in history were by Wilt. It helps when you shoot 72% and 68% FG%, which are not likely to be duplicated. BUt, Wilt also had years in which he was chipping in seven and eight assists per game, as he did when he had a shooter like Greer who could hit a jump shot if Wilt passed it out.

Wilt was never blessed with talent around him. Some thought he had a great deal of talent when he got Greer, Jackson, and Walker. But, they really weren't that great unless in the presence of Wilt. He finally did go to LA to be with Baylor and West in somewhat declining years for all three. Yet, they became the most dominant team in history with Wilt doing very little scoring, just maintaining a defensive presence with a few putbacks. He could play any style.

When he fist came up, it was Wilt vs the Boston Celtics, and they struggled to beat him in every game. He didn't just outscore Russell. He tripled Russell and doubled him in rebounds. I don't think they kept blocked shots as a statistic at the time. Russell prided himself as a shot blocker, and he claimed to be the world's greatest athlete. Wilt dominated him. It took the Celtics to beat Wilt as Wilt had the second best team with Wilt and a few bodies.

He didn't just dunk. They worked so hard keeping him away from the basket that most of Wilt's shots were not finger rolls or dunks as they were later in LA. His shots were a fade-away jump shot.

If you look among the assist leaders for a big man, Wilt will be there. Rebounds--no comparison of Wilt to anyone else. He could score as much as he wanted. He was THE dominant player, probably the man who built pro basketball. Prior to Wilt, there was no real interest in pro basketball.

Oh. And Wilt was also the Big Eight hurdles champion.

I love Robertson and Chamberlain. They were different.

 

[sybarite]

Wilt holds a huge number of all time NBA records to this day.

In fact when some were knocking him about assists, saying he could just score and rebound, he just went out and led the league in assists the next year.

Wilt could do it all. There is a video of him standing in the corner near the baseline, taking ONE step, and dunking the ball. We have never seen anyone like him.

There are records that he would hold if they actually had kept them at the time. Neither Wilt nor Russell are listed among NBA leading shot blockers. Really? But, then, nobody that played prior to the seventies was.

 

[BlackwellSooner]

I love Robertson and Chamberlain. They were different.

An easily agreed-upon statement. And I'll further agree that Wilt was by far the more able to single-handedly impact a game. Hey, the man was an animal, a physical FORCE.

Nothing that I've said denigrated Chamberlain. The first time that I saw him play on TV in 1957, he made a huge impression on me. One thing in particular impressed itself on my memory: Sometime during the course of the championship game between KU and the North Carolina Tarheels, Wilt went up and blocked a shot, but fell during the play. The Jayhawks hustled downcourt on a fastbreak, but missed the shot. The guy getting the rebound? Chamberlain. Jumping to his feet, he raced down the court in giant strides. Simply amazing.

But besides all of his physical attributes, Chamberlain frequently came up short in personality and leadership.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree on who was the greatest player.

 

[womenssports]

I was joking but it was because it is nice to hear people enthusiastic about the athletes who came before. Not only were most not as big, but they did NOT have access to the equipment, trainers, nutrition, knowledge, travel and accommodations that athletes have today; so I really appreciate what they were able to accomplish.

EDIT: to add NOT, have no clue why I do not edit before posting