Voepel on Texas

[womenssports]

Good article. I really like Boyette.

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14415082/texas-longhorns-look-rebuild-legacy

 

[Mac]

Expect them to keep getting better with the talent they have coming in, and Tina Thompson on the staff... Texas has a good chance to pass Baylor and win the big 12 for the foreseeable future.

Texas
Baylor
Oklahoma

That's how I see the big 12 playing out this year, hope I'm wrong tho...

 

[sybarite]

Before we get into yet one more thread about how sensational the future of Texas will be while that of the pitiful Sooners continues its inevitable slide, let's get a little perspective on some of this.

Texas last won a Big Twelve title in 2003-2004 under Judy Conradt. It happened to be the last time that they had been in the Sweet Sixteen prior to last year. They missed qualifying for the NCAA in three of those years, something that OU has not done in how long? Since that title, they have finished 2nd, T-8th, T-7th, T-7th, 6th, T-4th, 7th, T-6th, T-8th, 3rd, T-3rd. Their record in the Big Twelve is 91-93 during that time.

They were so certain when they hired a truly great coach, Gail Goestenkors, who had been extremely successful at Duke. She arrived at Texas with a 80.0% winning percentage and thirteen straight NCAA tournament appearances. She proceeded to take Texas to five more NCAA appearances, although with a 40-42 conference record, never having finished higher than a tie for fourth. Why wasn't Gail successful at Texas? She was an established good coach?

Enter Karen Aston. In eight years as a head coach, Aston has zero conference titles. She went to one NCAA appearance at Charlotte, courtesy of the Atlantic Ten. Last year, Texas was picked by many to win the conference. They had talent on top of talent, supposedly. Yet, they finished 9-9 in a four-way tie for third. Injuries were blamed. Let's see. OU has lost a dozen people to ACL injuries and has still made the tournament about sixteen times in a row, winning some titles along the way. But, Texas gets a pass on injuries? Aston has surpassed Sherri? Really? I didn't notice Aston's name on the Hall of Fame.

Aston may end up being quite successful. But, the support for Aston appears to be simply negativity toward Sherri at this point. Aston has yet to earn the acclaim. Let her win a title first. At least, a team that was to have won the title should do better than 9-9 before further accolades.

Is it that Aston was an assistant at Texas and Baylor that generates such enthusiasm?

 

[skilledserv]

Before we get into yet one more thread about how sensational the future of Texas will be while that of the pitiful Sooners continues its inevitable slide, let's get a little perspective on some of this.

Texas last won a Big Twelve title in 2003-2004 under Judy Conradt. It happened to be the last time that they had been in the Sweet Sixteen prior to last year. They missed qualifying for the NCAA in three of those years, something that OU has not done in how long? Since that title, they have finished 2nd, T-8th, T-7th, T-7th, 6th, T-4th, 7th, T-6th, T-8th, 3rd, T-3rd. Their record in the Big Twelve is 91-93 during that time.

They were so certain when they hired a truly great coach, Gail Goestenkors, who had been extremely successful at Duke. She arrived at Texas with a 80.0% winning percentage and thirteen straight NCAA tournament appearances. She proceeded to take Texas to five more NCAA appearances, although with a 40-42 conference record, never having finished higher than a tie for fourth. Why wasn't Gail successful at Texas? She was an established good coach?

Enter Karen Aston. In eight years as a head coach, Aston has zero conference titles. She went to one NCAA appearance at Charlotte, courtesy of the Atlantic Ten. Last year, Texas was picked by many to win the conference. They had talent on top of talent, supposedly. Yet, they finished 9-9 in a four-way tie for third. Injuries were blamed. Let's see. OU has lost a dozen people to ACL injuries and has still made the tournament about sixteen times in a row, winning some titles along the way. But, Texas gets a pass on injuries? Aston has surpassed Sherri? Really? I didn't notice Aston's name on the Hall of Fame.

Aston may end up being quite successful. But, the support for Aston appears to be simply negativity toward Sherri at this point. Aston has yet to earn the acclaim. Let her win a title first. At least, a team that was to have won the title should do better than 9-9 before further accolades.

Is it that Aston was an assistant at Texas and Baylor that generates such enthusiasm?

At the end of the day it's about who you are able to recruit and Aston has done a great job at recruiting. In the past 4 years she has been able to add 4 McDonald's all Americans and is set to add 2 more this year. This is why they are predicting Texas to make the leap into upper tier of teams.

You can say what you want about where Texas finished up in conference play....... They lost there best player at the beginning of conference play and had to learn how to play without her. At the end of the day they figured it out and made it to the big 12 championship game, they also made it to the sweet 16. Aston did this with recruits that she inherited which to me is very impressive.

I will admit she is the beneficiary of Texas A&M moving to the SEC........but she is doing an excellent job of putting the right coaches around her. North Texas head was an assistant under Aston and all she did after Mitchell left was go and hire Tina Thompson, which was another excellent move.

Now she may not be a great coach and i agree with the fact you questioning that, but we must admit she's an excellent recruiter and would make a hell of a general manager

 

[sybarite]

Actually, they were pretty much intact at the beginning of conference play. They were stunned at Iowa State and Oklahoma before the loss of Enempkali. They simply weren't as good as they looked in preseason play. They were 9-9 in conference play, a long way behind the 13-5 and 14-2 of OU and Baylor, and there was that much difference. They lost four games that Baylor and OU didn't. The fact that they got a nice seed that helped them to the Sweet Sixteen doesn't overcome the facts.

We have been hearing about the sensational Texas recruits since Gail came. They had the top two posts in Texas, and never won anything. They had the #2 player in the country. They keep piling up great players. But, they aren't really playing great. They took advantage of a late OU swoon to beat OU, but they should have lost both regular season games to OU---winning at Austin with how many OU players fouling out? Nonsense. Pulled the same nonsense a couple of times. Probably should have been about 7-11.

Aston has yet to show that she can coach. Not winning in the Atlantic Ten or with North Texas was hardly a background to say that she should have been a great Texas coach. Let's see if those "great' recruits can play like their clippings. Thus far, it seems to be Boyette, who is a handful.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

I really like Aston. She is probably my favorite coach in the Big-12 outside of Sherri.

I do not know how successful she will be in the long run, but I will be surprised if she isn't able to do well with the Longhorns in time.

The real point I see is that the least dependable part of athletics is paying too much attention to recruiting rankings. There are all kinds of agendas in play - especially at the club level. If all these players are among the best in the country it would be nearly impossible to not be competing for National Championships year after year. You certainly would not be losing 9 games in the Big-12. I expect she is doing a good job with what she has, but likely does not truly have the actual best players in the country.

Let me put that another way. If you have the best players in the country and lose 9 games in your conference then you are one really lousy coach. The contrapositive argument of that if statement says "If you are not a lousy coach and are losing tons of games then you must not have the best players around". I lean toward Karen being an excellent coach.

 

[skilledserv]

The players that are highly ranked were freshman last year and one of the two should not have been playing at all. So they had 2 season ending injuries at the start of conference play....oh yea it was there best guard and there best post player. Now this year they are soph and they have 2 really good freshman. My point is...it takes time to adjust to the speed and strength of the college level.

Really sad that you have to explain all of this to people like Sybarite.

 

[sybarite]

The players that are highly ranked were freshman last year and one of the two should not have been playing at all. So they had 2 season ending injuries at the start of conference play....oh yea it was there best guard and there best post player. Now this year they are soph and they have 2 really good freshman. My point is...it takes time to adjust to the speed and strength of the college level.

Really sad that you have to explain all of this to people like Sybarite.

Been hearing the same thing since Gail. Want to go back over their recruiting lists for the past ten years to see how many sensational recruits there were?

 

[SoonerNorm]

The players that are highly ranked were freshman last year and one of the two should not have been playing at all. So they had 2 season ending injuries at the start of conference play....oh yea it was there best guard and there best post player. Now this year they are soph and they have 2 really good freshman. My point is...it takes time to adjust to the speed and strength of the college level.

Really sad that you have to explain all of this to people like Sybarite.

Welcome to OUHoops! What you typically read on here is that we have better coaches and players than any other Big 12 team. If we lose, it's because the refs screwed us.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

The players that are highly ranked were freshman last year and one of the two should not have been playing at all. So they had 2 season ending injuries at the start of conference play....oh yea it was there best guard and there best post player. Now this year they are soph and they have 2 really good freshman. My point is...it takes time to adjust to the speed and strength of the college level.

Really sad that you have to explain all of this to people like Sybarite.

Well I don't think anything needs to be explained to Syb. But I do agree with you that most kids need to be in the program a year or two to reach their potential. But the true superstars don't. Girls like Courtney or Griner.

The problem is there are just not many like that, but it is one way to see if the over the top accolades were deserved or not.

Injuries are unfortunate and I hate to see them, but every team has to deal with it. If you are recruiting far better than your competition it should be fairly easy to deal with, but if you are recruiting similar to your competition, it will hurt some. Having to sit Stewart due to an injury did not seem to affect UCONN much. Injuries hurt Texas some last year. What does that say?

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

If we lose, it's because the refs screwed us. ��

Come on Norm. Even you must realize it's not always the refs. Once in a while we lose because we were just unlucky.

 

[skilledserv]

Well I don't think anything needs to be explained to Syb. But I do agree with you that most kids need to be in the program a year or two to reach their potential. But the true superstars don't. Girls like Courtney or Griner.

The problem is there are just not many like that, but it is one way to see if the over the top accolades were deserved or not.

Injuries are unfortunate and I hate to see them, but every team has to deal with it. If you are recruiting far better than your competition it should be fairly easy to deal with, but if you are recruiting similar to your competition, it will hurt some. Having to sit Stewart due to an injury did not seem to affect UCONN much. Injuries hurt Texas some last year. What does that say?

Geno has been there for years where as Aston for about 3 years. Look I still think the jury is out on Aston but i do think she is on the right track. I think this is the last year that she is playing the previous coaching staff kids so i think she is preparing herself to be ready for unseen injuries.

Also lets not forget Stewart sat out when they played LSU and not against a team like Baylor or OU......but to your point geno has 3 kids starting who will go in the top 5 of next years draft

 

[sybarite]

11/20/2004 Texas signs #1 class in the nation.
http://www.texassports.com/news/2004/11/10/111004aab_405.aspx?path=wbball

11/9/2005 Texas signs #3 and #7 players in the nation
http://www.texassports.com/news/2005/11/9/110905aaa_408.aspx?path=wbball

11/8/2006 Texas signs two Street and Smith All-Americans,
http://www.texassports.com/news/2006/11/8/110806aab_85.aspx?path=wbball

11/14/2007 Texas signs two, one #42.
http://www.texassports.com/news/2007/11/14/111407aaa_615.aspx?path=wbball

11/20/2007 Still 2007, Texas signs #5 player in the nation.
http://www.texassports.com/news/2007/11/20/112007aaa_639.aspx?path=wbball

11/13/2008 Texas signs #5 prospect in the nation.
http://www.texassports.com/news/2008/11/13/111308aac_574.aspx?path=wbball

11/13/2010 Texas signs #5 and #12 along with another top 100--in addition to Fussell
http://www.texassports.com/news/2009/11/13/111309aaa_971.aspx?path=wbball

11/17/2011 Texas signs #7 class in the nation
http://www.texassports.com/news/2010/11/17/111710aac_259.aspx?path=wbball

11/14/2012 Texas signs #10
http://www.texassports.com/news/2011/11/14/111411aaa_306.aspx?path=wbball

I put these out here to make a simple point. Texas has been signing highly-rated prospects all along. Even had the #1 rated class as well as the #7 rated class. The last of these just graduated, and neither won a conference title.

It's not like we haven't heard a lot about Texas recruits in the past. Look back to see who they have recruited. They were excited. Back to back posts who were both #5 in the nation received some attention.

 

[skilledserv]

11/20/2004 Texas signs #1 class in the nation.
http://www.texassports.com/news/2004/11/10/111004aab_405.aspx?path=wbball

11/9/2005 Texas signs #3 and #7 players in the nation
http://www.texassports.com/news/2005/11/9/110905aaa_408.aspx?path=wbball

11/8/2006 Texas signs two Street and Smith All-Americans,
http://www.texassports.com/news/2006/11/8/110806aab_85.aspx?path=wbball

11/14/2007 Texas signs two, one #42.
http://www.texassports.com/news/2007/11/14/111407aaa_615.aspx?path=wbball

11/20/2007 Still 2007, Texas signs #5 player in the nation.
http://www.texassports.com/news/2007/11/20/112007aaa_639.aspx?path=wbball

11/13/2008 Texas signs #5 prospect in the nation.
http://www.texassports.com/news/2008/11/13/111308aac_574.aspx?path=wbball

11/13/2010 Texas signs #5 and #12 along with another top 100--in addition to Fussell
http://www.texassports.com/news/2009/11/13/111309aaa_971.aspx?path=wbball

11/17/2011 Texas signs #7 class in the nation
http://www.texassports.com/news/2010/11/17/111710aac_259.aspx?path=wbball

11/14/2012 Texas signs #10
http://www.texassports.com/news/2011/11/14/111411aaa_306.aspx?path=wbball

I put these out here to make a simple point. Texas has been signing highly-rated prospects all along. Even had the #1 rated class as well as the #7 rated class. The last of these just graduated, and neither won a conference title.

It's not like we haven't heard a lot about Texas recruits in the past. Look back to see who they have recruited. They were excited. Back to back posts who were both #5 in the nation received some attention.

Look at the ranking services......read all the articles in full. These were written by Austin papers so read into them whatever you may.

 

[sybarite]

Look at the ranking services......read all the articles in full. These were written by Austin papers so read into them whatever you may.

They are citing HoopGurlz a lot, as well as other recognized systems.

The point is that Texas has always had its share. It may be a bit hyped up because it comes from Texas sources. It is interesting that Iowa State keeps winning with very few players who get any recognition. Somehow, K-State always seems to have some kids that came out of nowhere.

Texas will earn its credibility when it wins a title or two. Nobody disputed Conradt. She had a strong program. Texas really hasn't been all that since then, despite having some highly-rated players. Let's see if Aston can deliver. If she does, it might be good to have two Texas schools fighting over Texas talent, as long as we are still doing well in California, Florida, Wisconsin, etc.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Look at the ranking services......read all the articles in full. These were written by Austin papers so read into them whatever you may.

Your point is correct, ss.

The ranking services - all of them - are biased - for numerous reasons. Just like the club teams, they all have agendas - mostly looking for ways to game the system to make money. It may have slipped past some, but that is the exact point Syb is making.

It works because so many fans think it is reality and fall for them. The very best players are pretty easy to see, but below the real 1 or 2 superstars it is just a guess to rank them correctly. That is why coaches have much different lists than the ranking services. They know what will work in their system. Of course they make a number of miscalculations too. Evaluating HS kids is not a science. But it is fun to talk about isn't it?

 

[Mac]

2014
Ariel Atkins
Brooke McCarty
2015
Lashann Higgs
Jordan Hosey
All young players, all making an impact right now. They also add Holmes and Sutton. This is the type of young talent OU needs to get back towards the top of the Big 12.

Baylor will also be added 2 High school All Americans to also. OU should have atlest 1 in Mulkey, but we need to sign a guard like Patterson who would come in and push Ortiz for playing time. With Texas and Baylor loaded at guard maybe Patterson will pick OU, sounds like she wants to stay close to home.

 

[ielle]

Everbody know that Coales is better coach than Aston.But at this point Karen Aston is better recruiter and surround herself with a great staff. Look Coales spot will never get hot but if Aston dont start winning next year with Holmes and Sutton.Let be honest both will start as soon as they hit campus.The recruiting stuff keep the hype and sell tickets.It will keep Texas relevant but it wont matter if they are losing.

 

[skilledserv]

She's doing a great job at recruiting, just look at the top 2 kids in 2017. They both have Texas in there final 7 schools and both are on the east coast. She was able to convince Sutton to come from Missouri area and had Sabrina down for an official visit. She was able to get the number 1 kid from 2016 and now arguably the top 4 kids from 2017 are giving some thought of going to Texas. You can almost argue that she's out recruiting Baylor and competing with the likes of UConn. That doesn't mean she's that type of coach.....but thats a hell of a group and its a lot easier to coach talent.

Let's admit this......She's doing a great job of recruiting but let's see if she can coach now. You really can make the argument that Mulkey underachieved with simms and griner......but considering everything that was going on at the time i can give her a pass

 

[SoonerNorm]

I agree that Kim and Karen still have to prove how well they can coach (Dawn Staley too). But, having great players is the first step in winning a national championship. Coaching them is next followed by some luck, i.e., no key injuries.

Sherri does a great job coaching when she has the players. As Barry Switzer used to say, "it's not about the X's and O's, it's about the Jimmys and Joes." Even if Sherri is a better coach than Kim and Karen, she's still going to lose unless she signs the same type players they are. I think the 2017 class is critical as we must sign a great class.