Why OU is never getting a smaller stadium

[Max Power]

I disagree about the building.

Most people just say that "winning" solves the attendance issue, but this program is coming off back to back 20 win seasons playing attractive basketball and this current team will make it three in a row with a pretty legitimate chance at a Big XII title and a decent run in the NCAA tourney...and yet we're still talking about attendance issues.

20 wins and a 1st round exit is the same as 8 wins and a bowl loss in football. Anyone real excited about next year in football at a football school?

 

[BigTime]

as someone that is also a long time (though not nearly as long ) ticket holder that tries to be at every game ... 100% agree great post

I'm waiting for proof of 9k "Season" ticketholders.


The solution is to downsize to a 9K or so arena. Either a new home or a renovated LNC. If it's the latter, tear down the wall on the N/S sides and get students into a unified section and include luxury boxes with tinted windows that sell beer and put those like Trav whose seats are actually used on the camera side. Fixed.

All of the sudden, the 4.5k butts in the seats for the cupcake games don't look so bad (half full vs 1/3).

It is ALL about perception.

The program deserves a new arena...but you can't always get what you want.

 

[skyvue]

I posted the solution. Get the people who aren't dedicated Sooner basketball fans. It's how the thunder, OU football, etc. fill up their stadiums. Make it an event.

The first step to that is getting the games away from a cavernous, gloomy arena with no acceptable food options, no bars or restaurants close by, and that doesn't sell beer.

I think we need more people who will attend most of the games more than we need additional people who will go to a single game now and then (though the latter would be helpful and more than welcome, too).

Sooner basketball is never going to be the event that OU football is. Most folks who'd like to go to games don't want to add a couple of hours to their (weekday) evenings. They want to get to the arena as easily and quickly as possible, see the Sooners win, and call it a night.

The biggest problem with attendance is that all the games are on TV. The second biggest issue is the drive to Norman. Make that drive harder and longer, and you'll lose more fans. That's why I think moving to an on-(main)-campus arena is an iffy proposition. I think people will come to resent the additional time spent getting to and from the game as they sit in traffic on Norman's narrow streets. The LNC's location lets folks zip in and out (relatively speaking). I suspect if there were a real market for nightlife before and after events at LNC, we'd have seen businesses starting to crop up in the area. That hasn't happened.

The Thunder benefit from being in the middle of OKC, the fact that they're very good and that they're still the (relatively) new thing. Me, I wouldn't trade seats to a single OU game for tickets to ten Thunder games. The only Thunder game I attended was brutally unpleasant (and it was a playoff win for the Thunder). It was like a combination of a (bad) rock concert and a Morning zoo radio program with a smidgen of basketball thrown in for good measure. My father and I went two-plus hours without speaking to each other because there was no point. We wouldn't have been heard if we had tried to talk. And not because the fans were loud; it was the relentless assault of canned music, video clips and other assorted nonsense. It was as if the Thunder management viewed their fans as eight-year-olds with ADD. Gotta keep 'em distracted/entertained!

Ugh. No, thanks.

 

[Max Power]

I think we need more people who will attend most of the games more than we need additional people who will go to a single game now and then (though the latter would be helpful and more than welcome, too).

Sooner basketball is never going to be the event that OU football is. Most folks who'd like to go to games don't want to add a couple of hours to their (weekday) evenings. They want to get to the arena as easily and quickly as possible, see the Sooners win, and call it a night.

The biggest problem with attendance is that all the games are on TV. The second biggest issue is the drive to Norman. Make that drive harder and longer, and you'll lose more fans. That's why I think moving to an on-(main)-campus arena is an iffy proposition. I think people will come to resent the additional time spent getting to and from the game as they sit in traffic on Norman's narrow streets. The LNC's location lets folks zip in and out (relatively speaking). I suspect if there were a real market for nightlife before and after events at LNC, we'd have seen businesses starting to crop up in the area. That hasn't happened.

The Thunder benefit from being in the middle of OKC, the fact that they're very good and that they're still the (relatively) new thing. Me, I wouldn't trade seats to a single OU game for tickets to ten Thunder games. The only Thunder game I attended was brutally unpleasant (and it was a playoff win for the Thunder). It was like a combination of a (bad) rock concert and a Morning zoo radio program with a smidgen of basketball thrown in for good measure. My father and I went two-plus hours without speaking to each other because there was no point. We wouldn't have been heard if we had tried to talk. And not because the fans were loud; it was the relentless assault of canned music, video clips and other assorted nonsense. It was as if the Thunder management viewed their fans as eight-year-olds with ADD. Gotta keep 'em distracted/entertained!

Ugh. No, thanks.

from my experience, that's not just the thunder. It was the same at mavericks and rockets games when i live in Dallas and Houston. Seems to me that's what works for NBA fans.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It is ALL about $$$.

fixed

 

[BigTime]

fixed

Oh yeah, and for the LOVE OF GOD , paint those effin Orange seats to match the Crimson ones!!!!

 

[Soonerman]

20 wins and a 1st round exit is the same as 8 wins and a bowl loss in football. Anyone real excited about next year in football at a football school?

8 wins and a bowl loss would be pretty exciting for football if it was coming off years of losing, getting rid of a crappy head coach, program turmoil and NCAA violations. What's your point?

 

[sperry]

I think we need more people who will attend most of the games more than we need additional people who will go to a single game now and then (though the latter would be helpful and more than welcome, too).

Sooner basketball is never going to be the event that OU football is. Most folks who'd like to go to games don't want to add a couple of hours to their (weekday) evenings. They want to get to the arena as easily and quickly as possible, see the Sooners win, and call it a night.

The biggest problem with attendance is that all the games are on TV. The second biggest issue is the drive to Norman. Make that drive harder and longer, and you'll lose more fans. That's why I think moving to an on-(main)-campus arena is an iffy proposition. I think people will come to resent the additional time spent getting to and from the game as they sit in traffic on Norman's narrow streets. The LNC's location lets folks zip in and out (relatively speaking). I suspect if there were a real market for nightlife before and after events at LNC, we'd have seen businesses starting to crop up in the area. That hasn't happened.

The Thunder benefit from being in the middle of OKC, the fact that they're very good and that they're still the (relatively) new thing. Me, I wouldn't trade seats to a single OU game for tickets to ten Thunder games. The only Thunder game I attended was brutally unpleasant (and it was a playoff win for the Thunder). It was like a combination of a (bad) rock concert and a Morning zoo radio program with a smidgen of basketball thrown in for good measure. My father and I went two-plus hours without speaking to each other because there was no point. We wouldn't have been heard if we had tried to talk. And not because the fans were loud; it was the relentless assault of canned music, video clips and other assorted nonsense. It was as if the Thunder management viewed their fans as eight-year-olds with ADD. Gotta keep 'em distracted/entertained!

Ugh. No, thanks.

I don't think your description of the Thunder gameday experience is accurate, but even if it is, that doesn't change the fact that its clearly more popular than the OU hoops gameday experience. Which if you're concerned about attendance is what matters.


Businesses can't crop up there because the land is owned by the university, but they wouldn't do any business aside from game nights. Campus corner is established and flourishing because of its close proximity to campus.

 

[skyvue]

I don't think your description of the Thunder gameday experience is accurate, but even if it is, that doesn't change the fact that its clearly more popular than the OU hoops gameday experience. Which if you're concerned about attendance is what matters.


Businesses can't crop up there because the land is owned by the university, but they wouldn't do any business aside from game nights. Campus corner is established and flourishing because of its close proximity to campus.

My description is spot-on for the one Thunder game I attended. And as I stated above, there are many reasons why the Thunder are drawing better than OU (or oswho for that matter). Convenience due to location is a key one. The team's on-court success is another. And the excitement (and novelty) that surrounds the state's first major pro team in the state.

I refuse to believe that a steady stream of clips from Adam Sandler movies (and the like) is why people are going to Thunder games, but if I'm wrong, fair enough. More power to those who go for that. But I wouldn't show up for that sensory onslaught if I had free season tickets, lived at the Skirvin and had a complimentary limo waiting to carry me the few blocks to the arena on game nights. I care about the game, not all that other nonsense.

I've attended a few Knicks games over the years (most recently one game last season) and they have some of that extraneous stuff but not nearly as much as the Thunder game I attended.

When I spoke of businesses (not) cropping up, I was referring to the vicinity, not the land on which LNC sits. If there really were a market for postgame nightlife, you'd see restaurants and bars lining Hwy 9. Most folks just want to be home by 10pm on a weeknight, if at all possible.

 

[Soonerman]

While Thunder games may be loud and obnoxious and just terribly awful to Skyvue, most people don't find it to be that way, hence why the waiting list for tickets for Thunder games is quite long.

 

[tycat947]

Regarding student interest and support; it takes very little effort to get from the main campus to the LNC if you live in a dorm or a fraternity house. What about the large number of students that live off-campus in Norman area apartments and rent houses? No matter where you live as a student, it takes very little effort to get to the LNC.

It is not Location, Location, Location. It is all about interest and passion for the sport. A building does not create this. There is obvious long-term evidence that that vast majority of OU students just do not care about any “minor sport” and the student passion for football even seems to be on the decline. Go to an OU baseball game sometime and check out the “crowd.” Go to any of the numerous OU sporting events “on campus” at the Fieldhouse and you will observe a sea of empty seats in the tiny Fieldhouse at its “great location.”

I am a long term OU Basketball season ticket holder that puts my butt in the seat, and I enjoy going to the LNC. If you truly enjoy and support OU basketball, you will be THERE, no matter where THERE is.

I like the LNC. I have traveled to most of the other Big-12 venues and I still like the LNC.

And yes, I have been to Allen Fieldhouse. What makes it a great venue is that it is full of 16,000 fans. The building itself is a dump, with the most uncomfortable cramped bleacher seating possible, and where it is almost impossible to keep from getting kneed in the back and elbowed in your side. So what? The fans make the arena a great venue. The venue does not make great fans. Does anyone doubt that Allen Fieldhouse would still be full if it were located in a cow pasture 10 miles out of town with a mud parking lot?

Totally agree! The student interest is a nationwide (with few exceptions) problem for all collegiate sports, including football.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

......

...... Me, I wouldn't trade seats to a single OU game for tickets to ten Thunder games. The only Thunder game I attended was brutally unpleasant (and it was a playoff win for the Thunder). It was like a combination of a (bad) rock concert and a Morning zoo radio program with a smidgen of basketball thrown in for good measure. My father and I went two-plus hours without speaking to each other because there was no point. We wouldn't have been heard if we had tried to talk. And not because the fans were loud; it was the relentless assault of canned music, video clips and other assorted nonsense. It was as if the Thunder management viewed their fans as eight-year-olds with ADD. Gotta keep 'em distracted/entertained!

Ugh. No, thanks.

Well said. I have been to a half-dozen Thunder games using free tickets as the guest of a friend that won the tickets at work. These were good corporate seats in the lower level. I just love college basketball, but after several pro games I found that I was just bored by the NBA experience. Your description above perfectly nails it. As I looked around the crowd, it was apparent that many Thunder fans were not even watching the game.

I was also very much put off by "the relentless assault of canned music, video clips and other assorted nonsense." In recent years OU tried to copy this nonsense during timeouts at the LNC, but, thankfully, this has now been greatly reduced.

 

[Sooner04]

Well said. I have been to a half-dozen Thunder games using free tickets as the guest of a friend that won the tickets at work. These were good corporate seats in the lower level. I just love college basketball, but after several pro games I found that I was just bored by the NBA experience. Your description above perfectly nails it. As I looked around the crowd, it was apparent that many Thunder fans were not even watching the game.

I was also very much put off by "the relentless assault of canned music, video clips and other assorted nonsense." In recent years OU tried to copy this nonsense during timeouts at the LNC, but, thankfully, this has now been greatly reduced.

I got so aggravated Saturday. Twice we went on big runs and Baylor was forced to call time out. The fans are up and loud, but instead of Boomer Sooner we get two songs I've never heard of and halfway through them the fans are back on their rumps.

Quit NBA-ing my Sooner experience!!

 

[OUHoops]

I got so aggravated Saturday. Twice we went on big runs and Baylor was forced to call time out. The fans are up and loud, but instead of Boomer Sooner we get two songs I've never heard of and halfway through them the fans are back on their rumps.

Quit NBA-ing my Sooner experience!!

I'm glad someone called this out. Guess I'm getting old, but it was disgusting. The band stood up like they were going to play, then the PA started blasting "Turn Down For What" and the crowd pretty much sat down. Not sure what the second was. We also had "Don't Stop the Party" by Pit Bull at one point.

 

[skyvue]

While Thunder games may be loud and obnoxious and just terribly awful to Skyvue, most people don't find it to be that way, hence why the waiting list for tickets for Thunder games is quite long.

As I acknowledged in my post. But I don't think it's the video clips and relentless thumping music that draw people -- at least I hope not. There's some awfully good basketball being played that is more deserving of their attention.

Do you think for a moment that if the Thunder stopped with the movie clips and all the other extraneous stuff, the demand for tickets would drop even a little bit -- or, to get back on topic, if OU were to add more multimedia distractions, our attendance would increase? I certainly don't.

 

[Sooner04]

I'm glad someone called this out. Guess I'm getting old, but it was disgusting. The band stood up like they were going to play, then the PA started blasting "Turn Down For What" and the crowd pretty much sat down. Not sure what the second was. We also had "Don't Stop the Party" by Pit Bull at one point.

Just garbage. It takes 30 seconds to play Boomer Sooner at warp speed.

Know your audience, PA people!

 

[sperry]

My description is spot-on for the one Thunder game I attended. And as I stated above, there are many reasons why the Thunder are drawing better than OU (or oswho for that matter). Convenience due to location is a key one. The team's on-court success is another. And the excitement (and novelty) that surrounds the state's first major pro team in the state.

I refuse to believe that a steady stream of clips from Adam Sandler movies (and the like) is why people are going to Thunder games, but if I'm wrong, fair enough. More power to those who go for that. But I wouldn't show up for that sensory onslaught if I had free season tickets, lived at the Skirvin and had a complimentary limo waiting to carry me the few blocks to the arena on game nights. I care about the game, not all that other nonsense.

I've attended a few Knicks games over the years (most recently one game last season) and they have some of that extraneous stuff but not nearly as much as the Thunder game I attended.

When I spoke of businesses (not) cropping up, I was referring to the vicinity, not the land on which LNC sits. If there really were a market for postgame nightlife, you'd see restaurants and bars lining Hwy 9. Most folks just want to be home by 10pm on a weeknight, if at all possible.

Stupid video clips on the scoreboard are not unique to the NBA. People definitely prefer the pop music to marching band music, as a whole (I understand that the older generation on here does not. That's fine, but you're not the group they need to entice to boost attendance).

And again, the experience is not just music and what's on the scoreboard. The fact that there is edible food and they serve drinks is a HUGE DEAL. Even if they don't let you have drinks in the stands, a couple of bar restaurant areas in the arena could help immensely.

I'm talking about the surrounding land. You'd have to go south of the highway to get to land that isn't owned by OU or zoned residential, aside from that tiny strip mall with the 7-11 and the Sonic.

 

[NickZepp]

I agree mostly with sky although the atmosphere at Thunder games plays a part. Not necessarily the clips or music in between plays and such like he described but it plays a role. The games in timeouts and the such are there to get the fans involved constantly and it keeps the crowd in it all the way through. I remember going to games when the Thunder stunk the first year here and the atmosphere was still very big for the Thunder. Much bigger than it ever was for even the Hornets when they were here in the few games I went to.

OU games just don't have the atmosphere the NBA does and location may big part of it. But I also think the arena just feels bigger and emptier than it really is. Even if it's full.

 

[SilliSooner]

I would dare say more students live closer to the LNC than nearer the center of campus. I don't get all the clamor for a smaller arena. Smaller schools than OU like Iowa State or Creighton have larger arenas. If you want to make the place look more packed for poorly attended games, just block off the end zones, move everyone over to east side, things like that.

I've furnished steel, rails, the scoreboard platform and aluminum rails for both the LNC and the Fieldhouse and believe me, the LNC is superior in lots of ways to other arenas I've been around. It is structurally sounder, has clearer sight visions, has easier access in and out. It's silly to consider foregoing it. Besides they've got too much invested in the practice gyms and the basketball offices to give them up.

 

[Soonerman]

As I acknowledged in my post. But I don't think it's the video clips and relentless thumping music that draw people -- at least I hope not. There's some awfully good basketball being played that is more deserving of their attention.

Do you think for a moment that if the Thunder stopped with the movie clips and all the other extraneous stuff, the demand for tickets would drop even a little bit -- or, to get back on topic, if OU were to add more multimedia distractions, our attendance would increase? I certainly don't.

OK, so it was just a chance to gripe about Thunder games. On the same page now.