Why OU is never getting a smaller stadium

[scrybe]

OK, so it was just a chance to gripe about Thunder games. On the same page now.

LOL. Perhaps you should change your user name to Thunderman.

 

[Soonerman]

LOL. Perhaps you should change your user name to Thunderman.

LOL, that was funny scrybe.

http://youtu.be/bcYppAs6ZdI

 

[scrybe]

LOL, that was funny scrybe.

http://youtu.be/bcYppAs6ZdI

I was a stand-up comic in a previous life. :ez-laugh:

 

[Soonerman]

I would dare say more students live closer to the LNC than nearer the center of campus. I don't get all the clamor for a smaller arena. Smaller schools than OU like Iowa State or Creighton have larger arenas. If you want to make the place look more packed for poorly attended games, just block off the end zones, move everyone over to east side, things like that.

I've furnished steel, rails, the scoreboard platform and aluminum rails for both the LNC and the Fieldhouse and believe me, the LNC is superior in lots of ways to other arenas I've been around. It is structurally sounder, has clearer sight visions, has easier access in and out. It's silly to consider foregoing it. Besides they've got too much invested in the practice gyms and the basketball offices to give them up.

Both those schools have two the best of arenas for watching college basketball though, and Iowa State has a larger student population that OU believe it or not!

If the end zones got blocked off, which I kinda like, it would mean the student section would be in the seats that are normally empty because of all the no-show "season ticket holders". Don't think that would fly, as they donate $$$$$$.

Agreed that because of the practice facilities being upgraded so heavily and so recently, that the more realistic thing would be to renovate the LNC and draw back it's capacity.

 

[tycat947]

I would dare say more students live closer to the LNC than nearer the center of campus. I don't get all the clamor for a smaller arena. Smaller schools than OU like Iowa State or Creighton have larger arenas. If you want to make the place look more packed for poorly attended games, just block off the end zones, move everyone over to east side, things like that.

I've furnished steel, rails, the scoreboard platform and aluminum rails for both the LNC and the Fieldhouse and believe me, the LNC is superior in lots of ways to other arenas I've been around. It is structurally sounder, has clearer sight visions, has easier access in and out. It's silly to consider foregoing it. Besides they've got too much invested in the practice gyms and the basketball offices to give them up.

I think you're right. Most of the students live in apts south, west and east of LNC. Dorms are less than a mile. There are a list of excuses 5 miles long for why students and fans don't attend the games. People sprint out of the arena before the game is over for fear their drive home make take 5 mins longer (about 14 or 15 home games a year and probably half of those are on weekends or during holiday times). This has been a problem since LNC first opened and I'm pretty sure the 5,000 Field House wasn't even being sold out on a regular basis when they opened LNC. Fast forward 40 years and people are living their lives thru smart phones, internet and other media where they can watch games wherever there is connectivity and most don't have to venture the less than 5 miles to the LNC. We could raze OMS and build a state of the art basketball arena, with all the bells and whistles, and this STILL would be an issue. Sure, the first season would see an uptick in people actually attending and big games (KU, osu, whorns) would see larger crowds but the rest of the games would be the same and attendance would dwindle for all the other non-marquee games in subsequent years. Again, in addition to the lagging attendance issue we've pretty much always had, this is a nationwide collegiate athletics issue and not going away. This is why Boren/Castiglione are not pushing for expansion of OMS with the latest renovations. When I was in school in late 70's, student attendance at football games was around 18,000. Now, 6,000 (we have probably 8 or 9 thousand more students now as well) and a lot of those don't show up for early starts or games with no meaning. So, I don't see this going away regardless of what is done to LNC.

 

[afaSooner]

Every single OU fan I know rarely talks about going to OU basketball games. When I ask them why they look at me as if they're preparing to ask me "Who goes to basketball games?". Most OU fans are OU football fans. They're not OU fans. OU football is an event. It's an on campus tailgating event and many eventually find their way to the local pubs afterwards. I agree with Sperry, it's because OU basketball has been looked at as a non-event. No fun. I agree a lot with what you say Sperry but I still believe a new arena would more than help to transfer the games to events. In fact I'd even say "good luck!" if the plan is to transform games to events at the LNC. Location is a HUGE issue here. There aren't restaurants and bars within walking distance as pointed out but there's nothing else either. Just fields, buildings, and apartments.

I'd suggest this...

Build a new Fieldhouse and place it near campus corner or at least much closer to campus (as close to campus corner as possible). This is why the spot where the old Fieldhouse sits is extremely attractive. Even if you build a new one elsewhere it would be challenging but well worth it.

This alone transforms the games to events IMO. The new facility located in the heart of campus within walking distance to pubs, restaurants, stores, etc., gives you extra motivation to make it out to the game.

 

[sperry]

Every single OU fan I know rarely talks about going to OU basketball games. When I ask them why they look at me as if they're preparing to ask me "Who goes to basketball games?". Most OU fans are OU football fans. They're not OU fans. OU football is an event. It's an on campus tailgating event and many eventually find their way to the local pubs afterwards. I agree with Sperry, it's because OU basketball has been looked at as a non-event. No fun. I agree a lot with what you say Sperry but I still believe a new arena would more than help to transfer the games to events. In fact I'd even say "good luck!" if the plan is to transform games to events at the LNC. Location is a HUGE issue here. There aren't restaurants and bars within walking distance as pointed out but there's nothing else either. Just fields, buildings, and apartments.

I'd suggest this...

Build a new Fieldhouse and place it near campus corner or at least much closer to campus (as close to campus corner as possible). This is why the spot where the old Fieldhouse sits is extremely attractive. Even if you build a new one elsewhere it would be challenging but well worth it.

This alone transforms the games to events IMO. The new facility located in the heart of campus within walking distance to pubs, restaurants, stores, etc., gives you extra motivation to make it out to the game.

We're on the same page here. I think a smaller, field house style arena close to campus corner (but with decent lines of site, and amenities) would do very well. No, I don't know where it would go. No, I don't know who would pay for it, but I really think it woudl bolster interest in attending the games, if that's the goal.

 

[afaSooner]

We're on the same page here. I think a smaller, field house style arena close to campus corner (but with decent lines of site, and amenities) would do very well. No, I don't know where it would go. No, I don't know who would pay for it, but I really think it woudl bolster interest in attending the games, if that's the goal.

I don't know why anyone would disagree with this? What's the argument? What am I missing? You get what you pay for don't you? If getting people to come out to the basketball game were important enough why couldn't this happen?

I really want to know because if the administration is going to be cheap about it then expect fans to be cheap about it too. Make an investment in the product your selling and they'll justify buying it. Expecting that winning some NCAA games is going to change your fortunes is foolish. Maybe a NC will change things? At any rate thus far the fans have spoken haven't they? We won plenty in the 80's, 90's, and 2000's. Hell even before then. Plenty of NCAA tourney wins and Big12 championships. The one constant since the 70's? The Loyd Noble Center and where the Loyd Noble Center resides. Out in the middle of nowhere with no options afterwards other than getting back into your car and driving home. Ok well some of us make the drive to O'Connell's afterwards anyways but it is rather inconvenient.

 

[opsooner]

Watching WV and TT. Looks like there might be 1000 people there (although the people that are there are actually cheering). Might be more on the side they are not showing but really looks bad bad when the lower areas have so many vacancies.

I don't know what the answer is for OU but I am at least glad it is going in the right direction. I would also like to see a smaller arena but don't think it will happen. When I was at OU I watched us go from decent crowds in Bliss' last year to terrible crowds (and terrible team) when Tubbs came. Of course, Wayman then changed that but even before him there were some good crowds at the end of the previous year as we started getting better. I guess the Thunder hurts some but I am not sure how significant that is. I think if we can stay near the top of the conference this year and have a chance to win it the fans will come. A road win tonight will be tough but it will really help future home crowds.

 

[DenverSooner]

The biggest problem with attendance is that all the games are on TV. The second biggest issue is the drive to Norman. Make that drive harder and longer, and you'll lose more fans.

I completely agree.

The Tech game is at 6:30 on a Wednesday. Even if you live in Norman, it would be tough to leave an Office in OKC much past 5:00 and make it to your house for a quick bite to eat with your family and then make the game for the tip. If you live in Edmond or North OKC you probably don't even try to go home first.

WVU is at 7:00. That is still cutting it tight.

 

[skyvue]

I don't know why anyone would disagree with this? What's the argument? What am I missing? You get what you pay for don't you? If getting people to come out to the basketball game were important enough why couldn't this happen?

I explained earlier in the thread why I disagree, but I'll reiterate.

The average non-student views basketball games very differently from football games, and they likely always will. There are six home football games; there are 15 home basketball games, and half of those are on weeknights.

So with basketball, the average fan isn't looking for an all-day event like a football game. They want to get in and out quickly, and given that they likely won't get home till 10 or so (unless they live in Norman), they aren't looking to hang out after the game.

The LNC offers relatively easy access. Move the games to the main campus and you'll be adding significant minutes to everyone's travel time and you'll still find, I'm convinced, that few fans will stick around to hit the bars and restaurants.

 

[MI Sooner]

Why would you go home to eat first?

 

[sperry]

I explained earlier in the thread why I disagree, but I'll reiterate.

The average non-student views basketball games very differently from football games, and they likely always will. There are six home football games; there are 15 home basketball games, and half of those are on weeknights.

So with basketball, the average fan isn't looking for an all-day event like a football game. They want to get in and out quickly, and given that they likely won't get home till 10 or so (unless they live in Norman), they aren't looking to hang out after the game.

The LNC offers relatively easy access. Move the games to the main campus and you'll be adding significant minutes to everyone's travel time and you'll still find, I'm convinced, that few fans will stick around to hit the bars and restaurants.

The average fan that goes to the games now, but that's the issue. There aren't enough of those "average" fans to fill the buildiing. you need to draw from other sources.


As for the bars and restaurants, people would likely stay after the 6 oclock games, and go beforehand for the 8 oclock games. And maybe you could even get some tailgating for something like a Saturday afternoon Texas or KU game.

 

[Sooner04]

Every single OU fan I know rarely talks about going to OU basketball games. When I ask them why they look at me as if they're preparing to ask me "Who goes to basketball games?". Most OU fans are OU football fans. They're not OU fans.

I hate this realization, but it's true. I fought coming to grips with it for a long time, but it's just the nature of the beast.

Grab some folks and bring them to a game. There are enough free or cheap tickets going around outside the LNC to float a battleship. Make the effort, come on down, and be entertained.

 

[soonersublime]

A nice cozy small arena with the fans right on top of you is what I like. 8k seats tops. Decrease supply, increase demand. The Sooners are in direct competition with the Thunder. Make the arena something that when recruits see it they think wow this place is awesome. Gallagher Iba used to be that way. They added on to it and now it's a ghost town most games. Large arena's are nice when you fill them up but suck when they are half empty.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

A nice cozy small arena with the fans right on top of you is what I like. 8k seats tops. Decrease supply, increase demand. The Sooners are in direct competition with the Thunder. Make the arena something that when recruits see it they think wow this place is awesome. Gallagher Iba used to be that way. They added on to it and now it's a ghost town most games. Large arena's are nice when you fill them up but suck when they are half empty.

I had to smile at that. If the max seating is 8000 fans you haven't increased attendance much even if you found a way to fill it up every game. You have simply crammed people closer together and made it less comfortable for those attending. And you never have 1000+ of the 9,000 fans who showed up the other night. The first step in sales is to do everything in your power to keep your current customers, then to find ways to attract others. JC Penny's and many others tried to dump on their customers and try to attract new ones. Now that worked really well didn't it? Now they are back trying to find a way to get the ones who were loyal for years to come back - and have found out it is close to impossible. Really dumb decision making - but is much of what some are adamant about OU trying.

One of the big problems - and it isn't the fault of OU - is the distance from much of the OKC area population. My dad buys season tickets and attends lots of games, but he lives in Edmond. He gets home from work (near his home) around 5:30-5:45. He and my mom get in the car and head for Norman through the remaining rush hour traffic and get to the LNC just about the time the game starts. They get something to eat at the game, enjoy the game, and afterwards the last thing on their mind is going out to drink & party before driving back home. He has to be up the next morning at 5:30 or so to get ready for another day at the office. On the evenings he feels pretty tired he sometimes decides not to take on a 2 hour driving exercise. On the other hand - if he was a Thunder fan, which he is not for the reasons mentioned above - he could get to the parking garage in less than 30 minutes each way. So it would take much, much less dedication to attend Thunder games.

I will tell you that I prefer sitting in the LNC far, far more than in the Chesapeake Arena. Have you ever been in those nose bleed seats there?

 

[coolm]

no matter about the numbers I agree with sublime because our crap attendance and the accompanying perception of lackluster support is our biggest NEGATIVE in recruiting.

I know for a fact we have lost many, many recruits due to our poor crowds. A tight, hot, rowdy gym that rocks because it is so loud is exactly what we need for recruiting.

 

[SilliSooner]

A nice cozy small arena with the fans right on top of you is what I like. 8k seats tops. Decrease supply, increase demand. The Sooners are it to the game in direct competition with the Thunder. Make the arena something that when recruits see it they think wow this place is awesome. Gallagher Iba used to be that way. They added on to it and now it's a ghost town most games. Large arena's are nice when you fill them up but suck when they are half empty.

Economics. You got an 8000 seat stadium then you can't afford a $ 2M per year coach. We already have 9200 season ticket holders. Why would we cut off our nose to spite our face?

We usually have three or four games per year that draw over 10,000 people. If recruits are an issue why don't we bring in recruits for just the bigger games? Do a system like the Thunder does. If a donor or prime seat holder can't make it to the game, call the ticket office and let these tickets be sold. He'll get credit for the tickets being used (as far as qualifying for selected NCAA tickets) and fans who wouldn't expect prime seats get their chance.

I don't see any benefit whatsoever in a smaller arena. I've been going to OU games since 1966 and wasn't that pleased with the old Fieldhouse. The parking was almost impossible and the seating was uncomfortable.

Secondly, a lot of people are grousing about the Thunder. That's the wrong attitude. The Thunder is wanting to work with OU, even has scholarships established. Instead of complaining, We should be using the fact that a professional team is nearby as a recruiting tool. Buddy Hield has been to several Thunder games. So has Ryan. I've got to think that any recruit with pro aspirations might like attending a school where on occasional Sundays he might like to go see LeBron or Kevin in person and is only twenty minutes away from doing so. You can't do that at Iowa State or Kansas State or at Arkansas or at Missouri.

 

[BoulderSooner]

A nice cozy small arena with the fans right on top of you is what I like. 8k seats tops. Decrease supply, increase demand. The Sooners are in direct competition with the Thunder. Make the arena something that when recruits see it they think wow this place is awesome. Gallagher Iba used to be that way. They added on to it and now it's a ghost town most games. Large arena's are nice when you fill them up but suck when they are half empty.

the biggest flaw in this thinking ... is that if we had an 8k seat arena it would be sold out every game .. .

by the same people that buy the tickets now (a bunch of whom are donors that you are not going to snub i pay a bunch more per seat for my basketball seats than i do for my football)

and these are the people that currently half of which don't go to "non big" games ..

 

[Big Old Booger]

This perplexes me very much. According to the box score for Saturday you had:

Attendance: 12322 (Tickets sold)
Est. Attendance: 7560 (Butts in seats)

So well over 4,000 people who bought tickets no showed. Looking at the box scores, this happens just about every game and has been doing so for years that I've followed.

For example, here's your numbers for the season opener against SE Louisiana:

Attendance: 9626
Est. Attendance: 3052

Game two against Northwestern State:

Attendance: 10056
Est. Attendance: 4058

Who are these thousands of people buying tickets and no-showing just about every game?

That being said, I was pleasantly surprised with the crowd on Saturday.

I have not read the entire thread, just saw OUHoops post and thought I would reply to it.

Football season ticket holders, specifically those in the club seats or suites of Owen Field. I have a friend who has 6 basketball tickets based on his 6 football tickets in the club level. He attends most games but he gets the basketball tickets for a song since he's such a big football contributor.

He donates 10K per year for his football (and basketball tickets) and that's not including the price of his tickets. Just the donor fee.