Will Manziel be the tipping point of the amateur sham?

So aTm struck it rich with one player, who won the Heisman and they can make a little extra money selling his autograph to their own fans. How many other players have come through aTm and didn't make the university a dime selling autographs? aTm and every university gives out tons of schollys, room and board, free coaching, free trainers, free healthcare, a stipend, free tutors, etc at the expense of the school's fanbase, and people call foul when they sell his autograph on some stuff. I am outraged at the outrage. The university is not making money for stock holders, they put those profits back into the university athletic department to improve their dept.
 
The only people prohibited from profiting on college sports is the athlete. A&M auctioned off a Crow/Manziel helmet for $80,000 and he's prohibited from selling his autograph? Meanwhile the NCAA was selling his jersey on their official site?

There's a racial hypocrisy too. I'm not hearing the outrage directed at Manziel like there was against Reggie Bush & Cam Newton.

College football is a pro sport. The $ is overflowing to everybody except the players.

OK I'll go for them getting cash for their sigs, only if they pay for college, books and board and keep.
 
Except that no legitimate competitors can emerge because the NFL and NCAA collude in what would be a clear antitrust violation in any other industry. So, yes they do have to go to college, if they want to pursue their chosen vocation. Despite the fact that a college education is in no way necessary for their on the field success at that endeavor.


Basically, the NFL forces high school kids to go to college if htey ever want a shot at the league, and the NCAA forces them to sign away the rights to all of their earning potential during that three year period. It's a sham, and the system is going to topple pretty soon. The incompetence of the NCAA is going to speed that process up.

I don't see the collusion. Anyone could start a minor league with paid basketball or football players. if the guys that play in those league have the talent to play in the majors, the majors will find them. The NBA finds guys all over the world that never played in the NCAA.

Minor leagues exist for baseball and hockey. Both baseball and hockey are played in the NCAA. I don't know why we don't have minor league basketball and football but I seriously doubt collusion between the NCAA and Major leagues has anything to do with it.
 
Read all the posts; great comments.

I did notice none of you mentioned these kids sacrifice their bodies. As I a mother of a high school football player, that's something I think about every day as college approaches. Yes, they get a free education, they do get all the perks that come with being an athlete: free training, nutrition, flights, shoes, gear, tutoring, etc but sacrificing their bodies is major. Not every kid goes on to the NFL to make millions, not ever kid gets that great job right out of college (especially today). The universities spend a lot of money on these kids but they make up for it in profit later.

I feel like the money I spend now for personal training, physical therapy, gear, etc is excessive and he's still in high school. I can't even imagine what colleges pay. It is a sacrifice but my kid is in love with football. What do you do?

NCAA has to have rules and regulations. Standardization. It is what it is.
 
If these kids want to get paid...then quit football and get a job.

Nobody says they have to go to college. And this applies to sperry's comment above too. If they want to make money after HS but before the NFL, they should stay out of college. They can then do what they want. Go play arena league football. Leave the country. Start your own league.

Or just continue as is while accepting $ under the table and if the NCAA finds out and rules you ineligible expose the hypocrisy of the system. It's not against the law because it's not wrong.

Anybody who thinks there isn't a racial aspect has their head buried. Dez Bryant or Johnny Manziel, who is the majority of america likely to listen to?
 
I don't see the collusion. Anyone could start a minor league with paid basketball or football players. if the guys that play in those league have the talent to play in the majors, the majors will find them. The NBA finds guys all over the world that never played in the NCAA.

Minor leagues exist for baseball and hockey. Both baseball and hockey are played in the NCAA. I don't know why we don't have minor league basketball and football but I seriously doubt collusion between the NCAA and Major leagues has anything to do with it.


We don't have minor league basketball or football because multi-billion dollar institutions with tax and anti-trust exemptions fund their own minor leagues. Except they use their own combined might, plus the NFL's 3 year and the NBA's one year rule to destroy any bargaining power that the players might have. Again, in any other industry this would be illegal anti-competitive behavior.

The NFL and NBA are exempt from anti-trust law in their dealings with players because they engage in collective bargaining with the NFLPA and NBAPA under U.S. labor laws. The union protects the players wages and interests. There is no union to protect college athletes, and they're forced to accept the terms dictated to them by the NCAA. There was a point in time, when collegiate athletics were simply a school function and an advertising tool for the university. That time has passed, and it is now big business like any other.
 
I don't think you are correct. I think (but I am not sure) only baseball is exempt from Anti-Trust laws.

I am pretty sure there is nothing preventing kids from playing in say the Mid West Basketball Association for $50K per year with teams in Austin, El Paso, Tulsa, Little Rock, KC, Omaha, etc. other than the fact their is no league.

You are absolutely wrong that the NCAA has anti-trust exemptions. OU (and Georgia) took the NCAA to the Supreme Court and won an anti-trust suit in the 80s.
 
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If only football had more pro options than Arena, Canada and NFL, or at least one option besides college for the teens/early 20s that don't have NFL eligibility yet due to age.

There's no reason why college has an obligation to pay 18-21 year old football athletes just because there isn't a pro football league out there that will.
 
"I think so," Peterson told FOXSports.com. "The universities are making a lot of money off of student-athletes in general. So, yeah, he should be able to make money. I think so. They make millions off of these college athletes and they made millions off of the guys I played with as well. Yeah, he should be getting paid."

Peterson, a three-year standout at Oklahoma from 2004-06, said he doesn't see any issue with Manziel profiting off his own name.

"I think if you are in a position to where people want to pay you for your autographs or signatures, then you should be able to do that," Peterson told FOXSports.com. "He's a young man and he should be able to sign his name on a helmet or wherever without it being an issue."
 
That's the standard jock answer. They don't think about the ramifications. If they allow kids to profit from sigs, they are opening the door for a booster to pay thousands of dollars for an autograph,etc
 
I don't think you are correct. I think (but I am not sure) only baseball is exempt from Anti-Trust laws.

I am pretty sure there is nothing preventing kids from playing in say the Mid West Basketball Association for $50K per year with teams in Austin, El Paso, Tulsa, Little Rock, KC, Omaha, etc. other than the fact their is no league.

You are absolutely wrong that the NCAA has anti-trust exemptions. OU (and Georgia) took the NCAA to the Supreme Court and won an anti-trust suit in the 80s.



The NFL and NBA are exempt from anti-trust laws with respect to their dealings with players because the players are unionized and they collectively bargain under U.S. labor law. That's why during the lockout you heard about the unions threatening to decertify: doing so would have allowed the players to sue the leagues under anti-trust law. They are not exempt with regards to anything else (except for broadcasting stuff for the NFL, which is what allows blackouts and things of that nature).

And I'm well aware that the NCAA does not have an anti-trust exemption. The NCAA and member institutions avoid anti-trust action from student-athletes because they operate under the guise of "amateur athletics", which wouldn't classify as "trade" as defined by the Sherman Act and other anti-trust statutes. This made sense years ago, but now doesn't with regard to D1 Football and basketball, both of which are multibillion dollar industries in which the participating athletes are forced to dedicate basically the same amount of time as any full time job. It's nothing but a legal fiction.
 
If only football had more pro options than Arena, Canada and NFL, or at least one option besides college for the teens/early 20s that don't have NFL eligibility yet due to age.

There's no reason why college has an obligation to pay 18-21 year old football athletes just because there isn't a pro football league out there that will.



Except that powerful entities that should be competing, enforcing a covenant that puts a maximum on what a given employee (student-athlete) can earn (maximum of a scholarship) is pretty much exactly what anti-trust laws are designed to prevent.

We've moved long past the days of college football and basketball being a hobby that kids do to be involved in the unvierstiy community and have some fun. Both are now big business, reeling in billions of dollars in profits, and the old model no longer fits.
 
Again, the best way to resolve this is for the NFL and NBA to remove the age limitations from the game. If a viable opportunity to pursue a professional career exists (like there is for baseball) outside of college, it doesn't matter that colleges won't let you take money outside a scholarship, because you can go pro if you want. That makes anyone in college there by choice, and pretty much kills the argument that players are entitled to more than their scholarship. At that point it becomes the NCAA institutions offering a take it or leave it wage, and there's an alternative out there.


As it is now, players who are ready and able to earn money are held hostage in college sports, because there aren't any viable alternatives made available to them.
 
That's the standard jock answer. They don't think about the ramifications. If they allow kids to profit from sigs, they are opening the door for a booster to pay thousands of dollars for an autograph,etc

They are thinking of exactly the ramifications. The boosters/networks/fans are already paying billions of $ and it all ends up in the coaches/schools pockets. The only ramification is that a piece of the pie would properly start flowing to the players and the coaches/schools would get to keep a little less.

So they continue the charade called amateurism solely in the name of hoarding the revenue and suckers buy into their scheme.
 
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They are thinking of exactly the ramifications. The boosters/networks/fans are already paying billions of $ and it all ends up in the coaches/schools pockets. The only ramification is that a piece of the pie would properly start flowing to the players and the coaches/schools would get to keep a little less.

So they continue the charade called amateurism solely in the name of hoarding the revenue and suckers buy into their scheme.

What is proper about schools setting up situations where kids are getting tens of thousands of dollars for worthless autographs?

Pretty sure stuff like that in the business world, since you keep using a business reference, is illegal and can land people in jail.
 
Again, the best way to resolve this is for the NFL and NBA to remove the age limitations from the game. If a viable opportunity to pursue a professional career exists (like there is for baseball) outside of college, it doesn't matter that colleges won't let you take money outside a scholarship, because you can go pro if you want. That makes anyone in college there by choice, and pretty much kills the argument that players are entitled to more than their scholarship. At that point it becomes the NCAA institutions offering a take it or leave it wage, and there's an alternative out there.


Sperry, the only problem with that is nearly 100% of 18-20 year olds would get slaughtered putting on NFL pads and going up against guys who have been lifting weights with an athletic trainer for 5 -15 more years than the child trying to compete with them. The physical aspects would be overwhelming...most wouldn't last a week in training camp. They really need those extra 3-4 years to develop their bodies.

I wouldn't make a rule change because of a once-a-decade exception like Clowney of South Carolina...and I wouldn't count Adrian Peterson. He wasn't capable of diving into the end zone in college without being injured for six weeks...very well could have had a career-ending injury going to the pros in his late teens and deprived all of us of his running greatness.

As for the mental aspects? A close friend of mine once had a tryout on the defensive line for an NFL team back in the early 1990s. He (in his mid 20s at the time) told me that one day in the shower two of his teammates were laughing and joking about something they did a few days earlier which would make any adult want to throw up. My buddy told me he thought the conversations in general were comparable to what it would be like in a prison shower. I can't imagine too many 18-19 year olds dealing with that very well.
 
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They are thinking of exactly the ramifications. The boosters/networks/fans are already paying billions of $ and it all ends up in the coaches/schools pockets. The only ramification is that a piece of the pie would properly start flowing to the players and the coaches/schools would get to keep a little less.

So they continue the charade called amateurism solely in the name of hoarding the revenue and suckers buy into their scheme.

LOL. all it would do is allow for the bigger schools to get bigger and wealthier. The school/coaches would still profit big time, even more so. You would get super colleges where they dominate on and off the field b/c they will have the money to consistently buy recruits.

College football is an amateur league. IF you don't like it, go watch the professional leagues. If the players don't like it, they can go play pro.
 
So Manziel was smart enough to only accept cash and leave no paper trail, knew the NCAA had no evidence & told them he didn't accept any payment for signing. He was probably smart enough to have his sidekick handle the cash so he wasn't even lying!

Our problem is dummies receiving their compensation via payroll checks & wire transfers!!

Spread the word. CASH ONLY!!

As for the NCAA & Texas A&M Manziel can sit right there and tell them he signed thousands of autographs for free because he thinks it's a joke the NCAA is pimping his jersey and A&M auctioned off a helmet he signed for $80k. He can tell them he signed the stuff for free because college football is supposed to be amateur and the school presidents, coaches, etc are all raping the fans by overcharging. What can they say to him? They want him to go away ASAP so they can continue their charade.

I just noticed that OU will allow me to watch their amateur football game vs ULM this Saturday by streaming online for $44.95. Ha. They are worse than bookies.
 
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