2024-25 Schedule News

So you think we need to schedule DUKE, UNC, CREIGHTON, NC STATE, and MICHIGAN STATE??!?!!?!? Word for Word without reading your entire statement!

lol jk, thought it would be funny.

Be interesting to see how our SEC schedule ramps up our overall SOS too. Transfer Portal will shake up the normal bottom feeders for sure.
I think Torvik has already accounted for the transfers in his projections for next season, so it is a pretty safe bet all five teams I mentioned will remain among the absolute worst in the country. And we saw last year that conference SOS only matters if you actually beat the good teams. I just don't get the philosophy. The only explanation I can think of is that Moser has zero confidence in his ability to win if they play even a reasonably good nonconference.
 
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I still do t have an issue with our schedule last year or how this years looks. Like was said, you don’t get credit apparently to losing to good teams. So a win against a bad team imo is better than a potential loss against a good team. Our overall SOS last year was fine. The committee is just dumb

Most years, you need wins regardless of who they come against. When playing in the top conferences, you shouldn’t need a top end non conference schedule

This if you wishing for a harder nonconf would be the same ones bitching about having too hard of a non conference if we drop a few more games
 
I still do t have an issue with our schedule last year or how this years looks. Like was said, you don’t get credit apparently to losing to good teams. So a win against a bad team imo is better than a potential loss against a good team. Our overall SOS last year was fine. The committee is just dumb

Most years, you need wins regardless of who they come against. When playing in the top conferences, you shouldn’t need a top end non conference schedule

This if you wishing for a harder nonconf would be the same ones bitching about having too hard of a non conference if we drop a few more games
This shows that you have no idea how scheduling works or what the committee looks for. The days where "winning 20 games" was all that mattered are long gone because people have gotten much smarter thanks to analytics. Playing good, or even decent, teams gives you a chance to pick up a win that can help you. Playing 5 of the worst teams in America has zero upside, and plenty of downside.
 
This shows that you have no idea how scheduling works or what the committee looks for. The days where "winning 20 games" was all that mattered are long gone because people have gotten much smarter thanks to analytics. Playing good, or even decent, teams gives you a chance to pick up a win that can help you. Playing 5 of the worst teams in America has zero upside, and plenty of downside.
Did you not just say a couple posts ago that losing to good teams does nothing for the committee?

I never said that winning 20 games is all that matters.

But by every metric we should have been in. We got screwed. You don’t change your approach because of getting screwed. It’s not smart to schedule a tough non conference schedule when you already play one of the hardest conference schedules
 
Did you not just say a couple posts ago that losing to good teams does nothing for the committee?

I never said that winning 20 games is all that matters.

But by every metric we should have been in. We got screwed. You don’t change your approach because of getting screwed. It’s not smart to schedule a tough non conference schedule when you already play one of the hardest conference schedules
I said you have to beat good teams in your league and Moser can’t do that, so we can’t rely on our conference SOS to get us in the tournament. That means we actually have to do some meaningful work in the noncon. Scheduling five or more of the worst teams in the nation gives you no chance to accomplish that. Scheduling the 100th or 150th best team in the country does. If you think we shouldn’t do that because you assume those games would be losses, then that speaks volumes about our program. If we need to play teams in the 300s to feel confident about winning, then that’s a pretty good indication we aren’t a tournament team anyway.

Play a terrible schedule and nothing good can happen, win or lose. Play a decent schedule and sure, there is a chance you lose another game or two, but there is also a chance for upside.
 
No one's asking for an overly tough non-conference schedule, but there's a big difference between beating teams ranked in the 100s and teams ranked in the 200 or 300s. Kruger and his scheduler knew that and skillfully put together our non-conference schedule accordingly, year in and year out.
 
No one's asking for an overly tough non-conference schedule, but there's a big difference between beating teams ranked in the 100s and teams ranked in the 200 or 300s. Kruger and his scheduler knew that and skillfully put together our non-conference schedule accordingly, year in and year out.
You should probably revisit our schedule last year
 
You should probably revisit our schedule last year
No, you should.

I know full well what kind of schedule we played in non-con. But whatever--I did your homework for you: We played one team in Kenpom's Top 10 , three Top 100 teams, one team in the low 100s, two in the high 100s, two in the 200s and four in the 300s.

That's five teams in the top 150 and eight teams in the bottom 212. I'm not sure how you think that supports your stance. Had our four games against teams in the 300s been against teams in the 100s, it would have made our SOS significantly better.

Central Mich -- 277
Miss Valley St -- 362
Texas State -- 180
UT RGV -- 329
Iowa -- 57
USC -- 85
Ark PB -- 331
Providence -- 59
Arkansas -- 108
Green Bay -- 230
North Carolina -- 9
Central Arkansas -- 340
Monmouth -- 198
 
-Barttorvik T-Rank added!
-37 At-Large bids!
-WAB added!

Wins Above Bubble, is essentially the expectation of wins ahead of a bubble team. Basically, you need to have better top-end wins to make this number higher.
Also, essentially Sagarin is out and WAB is in. More analytic heavy decision making and less human decision making is a great move for college basketball. This is amazing news for a stat-nerd like myself.


That would have had OU 49th in WAB, which had them 49th in barttorvik rankings overall as well.

Teams that didn't get in ahead of OU:

Indiana St - 28th, 42nd in rank
Princeton - 42nd, 97th in rank
Seton Hall - 43rd, 38th in rank
Providence - 45th, 56th in rank
Pittsburgh - 48th, 30th in rank

Virginia was 32nd in WAB, 62nd in rank

Teams behind OU in the WAB (non-automatic bids):

Mississippi St - 51st, 87th rank
Michigan St - 56th, 18th in rank


So it will be interesting to see how they use these to justify their selections. Not a lot of justification, looking at these numbers, that OU should have been in. Which I find interesting from a data perspective.
 
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Bart Torvik blog post on his rankings


WAB stuff below



Let’s start with a tangent: I hate the NFL’s coin toss at the beginning of overtime.

The biggest reason for that is because the league is giving random chance too big a role in deciding a game ... especially when that doesn’t have to be the case.

Obviously, the NFL has changed its overtime rules some in recent years, where now only a touchdown by the receiving team on its opening drive immediately ends the game.

The problem, though, is that teams have no way to prepare in regulation for the outcome of the coin toss. It takes an element of the game result away from both the players and coaches.

The frustrating part is this could be easily fixed with one simple change: Give the ball first in overtime to the home team.

Think about how the game would be affected before that. Are you an underdog on the road against the Kansas City Chiefs? It might be worth going for a two-point conversion and the win with the knowledge that giving Patrick Mahomes the ball to start OT isn’t a great option. The flip side is true as well; defenses up by seven facing Mahomes at Arrowhead would know it’s probably best to stop KC now ... as opposed to him tying it then getting the ball to start the extra period too.

It’s a long way of saying this: Whenever possible, leagues should make it clear to teams exactly where they stand.

And this is why, given the state of men’s college basketball in 2021, I’m ready to do away with the NCAA Tournament selection committee, which is a group that means well but is tasked with an impossible assignment each year.

The NCAA, in actuality, is making a mountain out of a molehill when selecting its teams. It has created Team Sheets and NET and Quadrants and endless “scrubbing” sessions when, in fact, all are completely unnecessary for the actual task of putting the most deserving at-large programs into the field each year.

There’s a simpler way to do this, and one that would have far-reaching benefits —perhaps the greatest of which being that it would allow all teams to know exactly where they stand in terms of securing an NCAA bid.

The statistic best used is called “Wins Above Bubble,” and it’s proven to be an effective way to compare every college basketball team’s résumé.

Here’s how it works. Using advanced statistics, Wins Above Bubble (WAB) tells us how often an average Bubble team would be expected to win each game, based on opponent and location.

A short example: For Kansas’ game Wednesday against Kansas State, a Bubble team would be expected to beat K-State 82% of the time.

WAB takes that number to credit or debit a team for every game it plays. So if KU loses, it will get negative-0.82 for performing that much worse than a Bubble team. If it wins, it gets 0.18 added to its total.

Add up every game of the season (KU’s current season total is 2.7, for instance), and you have a number that can be used to quickly compare how “deserving” each team is when it comes to potential placement in the NCAA Tournament.

This already isn’t far off from how it’s done already. Bart Torvik’s publicly available version of WAB closely lined up with the top of last weekend’s NCAA bracket reveal, and in fact, all top four seeds on that day were identical in both: Gonzaga, Baylor, Michigan and Ohio State.

Here’s the beauty of switching the selection to WAB, though: Every team will know, in the moment, where they are and what they potentially need to do to get into the field as an at-large.

Say, for instance, you are Belmont. As of Monday, you rank 41st in WAB, which would be in line for the first 11 seed.

All of a sudden, there’s clarity with your situation. Win your next four games — which would add a combined 0.11, 0.03, 0.21 and 0.25 to your WAB total — and you’re all but assured to be in regardless of what happens in the conference tournament. Slip up somewhere, and you can re-evaluate from there, knowing that a WAB ranking in the upper-40s or low-50s won’t be guaranteed to make it based on other conference tournament results.

So much of the guesswork is taken away. The final bracket would still need minor adjustments — you’d likely want to move teams up or down a spot to avoid conference teams meeting up early in the tourney — but those are already done as part of the current exercise anyway.

As much as it’s fun to speculate about how a win or loss might help or hurt a team, there’s no reason to think about things so abstractly. This tool would tell us definitively that a particular upset moved a team up two seed lines. Or that an unexpected loss had moved a school from the right side of the bubble to one of the first projected teams out.

The idea already has some backing. College basketball analyst Jordan Sperber has suggested it for years, while ESPN’s John Gasaway also recently wrote about the positives it would provide.

In case you’re wondering: WAB has Missouri 15th and KU 17th, putting them both in the 4-5 seed range and around where most bracket projections have them. Both could still move up or down, based on their future results.

How much so? We have no idea with the way the system currently stands.

But we’re smart enough to do this better.

It’s time to get rid of the committee, using Wins Above Bubble as a cheaper, better and more equitable way to bracket.

The actual teams — not an overworked panel — deserve to have the power here.

With full awareness that their own fate is completely up to them.




Some solid reads on WAB
 
No, you should.

I know full well what kind of schedule we played in non-con. But whatever--I did your homework for you: We played one team in Kenpom's Top 10 , three Top 100 teams, one team in the low 100s, two in the high 100s, two in the 200s and four in the 300s.

That's five teams in the top 150 and eight teams in the bottom 212. I'm not sure how you think that supports your stance. Had our four games against teams in the 300s been against teams in the 100s, it would have made our SOS significantly better.

Central Mich -- 277
Miss Valley St -- 362
Texas State -- 180
UT RGV -- 329
Iowa -- 57
USC -- 85
Ark PB -- 331
Providence -- 59
Arkansas -- 108
Green Bay -- 230
North Carolina -- 9
Central Arkansas -- 340
Monmouth -- 198
And realistically, if we had 4 additional games in the 100s and lost them, we probably wouldn't have even been on the bubble.
I have zero issues with the non conference schedule. Our overall SOS (which is the only thing that should matter) was fine. It really hurt that USC and Arkansas were not good.

With having teams like USC/Iowa/Providence/Arkansas/UNC on the schedule, I have no problem with scheduling the gimmes
 
Wins Above Bubble, is essentially the expectation of wins ahead of a bubble team. Basically, you need to have better top-end wins to make this number higher.
Also, essentially Sagarin is out and WAB is in. More analytic heavy decision making and less human decision making is a great move for college basketball. This is amazing news for a stat-nerd like myself.
But how is it calculated?
 
Bart Torvik blog post on his rankings


WAB stuff below



Let’s start with a tangent: I hate the NFL’s coin toss at the beginning of overtime.

The biggest reason for that is because the league is giving random chance too big a role in deciding a game ... especially when that doesn’t have to be the case.

Obviously, the NFL has changed its overtime rules some in recent years, where now only a touchdown by the receiving team on its opening drive immediately ends the game.

The problem, though, is that teams have no way to prepare in regulation for the outcome of the coin toss. It takes an element of the game result away from both the players and coaches.

The frustrating part is this could be easily fixed with one simple change: Give the ball first in overtime to the home team.

Think about how the game would be affected before that. Are you an underdog on the road against the Kansas City Chiefs? It might be worth going for a two-point conversion and the win with the knowledge that giving Patrick Mahomes the ball to start OT isn’t a great option. The flip side is true as well; defenses up by seven facing Mahomes at Arrowhead would know it’s probably best to stop KC now ... as opposed to him tying it then getting the ball to start the extra period too.

It’s a long way of saying this: Whenever possible, leagues should make it clear to teams exactly where they stand.

And this is why, given the state of men’s college basketball in 2021, I’m ready to do away with the NCAA Tournament selection committee, which is a group that means well but is tasked with an impossible assignment each year.

The NCAA, in actuality, is making a mountain out of a molehill when selecting its teams. It has created Team Sheets and NET and Quadrants and endless “scrubbing” sessions when, in fact, all are completely unnecessary for the actual task of putting the most deserving at-large programs into the field each year.

There’s a simpler way to do this, and one that would have far-reaching benefits —perhaps the greatest of which being that it would allow all teams to know exactly where they stand in terms of securing an NCAA bid.

The statistic best used is called “Wins Above Bubble,” and it’s proven to be an effective way to compare every college basketball team’s résumé.

Here’s how it works. Using advanced statistics, Wins Above Bubble (WAB) tells us how often an average Bubble team would be expected to win each game, based on opponent and location.

A short example: For Kansas’ game Wednesday against Kansas State, a Bubble team would be expected to beat K-State 82% of the time.

WAB takes that number to credit or debit a team for every game it plays. So if KU loses, it will get negative-0.82 for performing that much worse than a Bubble team. If it wins, it gets 0.18 added to its total.

Add up every game of the season (KU’s current season total is 2.7, for instance), and you have a number that can be used to quickly compare how “deserving” each team is when it comes to potential placement in the NCAA Tournament.

This already isn’t far off from how it’s done already. Bart Torvik’s publicly available version of WAB closely lined up with the top of last weekend’s NCAA bracket reveal, and in fact, all top four seeds on that day were identical in both: Gonzaga, Baylor, Michigan and Ohio State.

Here’s the beauty of switching the selection to WAB, though: Every team will know, in the moment, where they are and what they potentially need to do to get into the field as an at-large.

Say, for instance, you are Belmont. As of Monday, you rank 41st in WAB, which would be in line for the first 11 seed.

All of a sudden, there’s clarity with your situation. Win your next four games — which would add a combined 0.11, 0.03, 0.21 and 0.25 to your WAB total — and you’re all but assured to be in regardless of what happens in the conference tournament. Slip up somewhere, and you can re-evaluate from there, knowing that a WAB ranking in the upper-40s or low-50s won’t be guaranteed to make it based on other conference tournament results.

So much of the guesswork is taken away. The final bracket would still need minor adjustments — you’d likely want to move teams up or down a spot to avoid conference teams meeting up early in the tourney — but those are already done as part of the current exercise anyway.

As much as it’s fun to speculate about how a win or loss might help or hurt a team, there’s no reason to think about things so abstractly. This tool would tell us definitively that a particular upset moved a team up two seed lines. Or that an unexpected loss had moved a school from the right side of the bubble to one of the first projected teams out.

The idea already has some backing. College basketball analyst Jordan Sperber has suggested it for years, while ESPN’s John Gasaway also recently wrote about the positives it would provide.

In case you’re wondering: WAB has Missouri 15th and KU 17th, putting them both in the 4-5 seed range and around where most bracket projections have them. Both could still move up or down, based on their future results.

How much so? We have no idea with the way the system currently stands.

But we’re smart enough to do this better.

It’s time to get rid of the committee, using Wins Above Bubble as a cheaper, better and more equitable way to bracket.

The actual teams — not an overworked panel — deserve to have the power here.

With full awareness that their own fate is completely up to them.




Some solid reads on WAB

I'm just too dumb to get it I guess. While he was going over the Temple Alabama comparison, it sounded like he was just arguing for strength of schedule.

I like advanced stats, but only if they are based in reality and not hypotheticals. WAB seems like a bunch of mumbo jumbo hypotheticals.
I'm a fan of keeping that out of basketball.
Seems like we are on the road to the BCS and not even having a human element
 
And realistically, if we had 4 additional games in the 100s and lost them, we probably wouldn't have even been on the bubble.
I have zero issues with the non conference schedule. Our overall SOS (which is the only thing that should matter) was fine. It really hurt that USC and Arkansas were not good.

With having teams like USC/Iowa/Providence/Arkansas/UNC on the schedule, I have no problem with scheduling the gimmes
lol yes, if you lose a bunch of games to teams in the 100s, you likely won’t make the tournament. Not should you. Nor should a legitimately good team be so terrified of losing those games that they instead schedule a bunch of games against the Central Arkansas and Lindenwoods of the world.
 
lol yes, if you lose a bunch of games to teams in the 100s, you likely won’t make the tournament. Not should you. Nor should a legitimately good team be so terrified of losing those games that they instead schedule a bunch of games against the Central Arkansas and Lindenwoods of the world.
It is different philosophies. I definitely see your point.
IMO, with the turnover we have had, it makes sense to schedule games against easy teams to see what you have and get your lineup set.
 
It is different philosophies. I definitely see your point.
IMO, with the turnover we have had, it makes sense to schedule games against easy teams to see what you have and get your lineup set.
Teams in the 100s are generally considered easy games. Only one of the teams you're citing to defend last season's approach to scheduling was in the 100s, and just barely at that. That was Arkansas and they finished under .500; you're really afraid of playing more teams like that? We beat them handily on a neutral court.

I don't think anyone expects us to play a murderer's row non-con schedule, but there's a big difference between teams ranked 150 and 250 and a huge gap between 150 and 350--and those gaps have a major impact on SOS and the committee's perception of us. There are lesser but decent teams and then there are weak sisters. You're defending us--indeed calling for us to continue--playing weak sisters.

As for the turnover excuse, we're seeing that every offseason under Moser and we're missing the tourney year after year under Moser. It's hard to argue that something doesn't need to change.
 
Teams in the 100s are generally considered easy games. Only one of the teams you're citing to defend last season's approach to scheduling was in the 100s, and just barely at that. That was Arkansas and they finished under .500; you're really afraid of playing more teams like that? We beat them handily on a neutral court.

I don't think anyone expects us to play a murderer's row non-con schedule, but there's a big difference between teams ranked 150 and 250 and a huge gap between 150 and 350--and those gaps have a major impact on SOS and the committee's perception of us. There are lesser but decent teams and then there are weak sisters. You're defending us--indeed calling for us to continue--playing weak sisters.

As for the turnover excuse, we're seeing that every offseason under Moser and we're missing the tourney year after year under Moser. It's hard to argue that something doesn't need to change.
I just really don't care. A team rated 150 vs a team rated 300? Who cares.
If the committee cares, they are looking at the wrong things IMO
 
I just really don't care. A team rated 150 vs a team rated 300? Who cares.
If the committee cares, they are looking at the wrong things IMO
What should they look at if who you play and how you do against them doesn't matter? I still struggle to see how anyone thinks we got screwed last season. When we played really good teams, we were terrible -- 2-11 against the field, if memory serves, with no road or neutral wins. That certainly doesn't merit a bid. So when you can't point to that as something that merits a spot, it is absolutely important that you at least pick up several wins against decent teams. The gap between the 150th best team and the 320th best team is massive. According to your philosophy, every power conference team could essentially lock up a spot by simply playing 10 or 12 NET 300 teams in the noncon and piling up gimme wins, because their conference SOS will be so strong that as long as they don't go 5-13 in conference play, they would be a lock. One of the biggest complaints people have about college basketball is that the regular season is meaningless. Well, if you think a team like OU should be rewarded simply because we had a strong conference SOS (never mind the fact we fared horribly against the good teams in the league), then the regular season truly is meaningless. We would be better off playing intrasquad games than Mississippi Valley State and National American University.
 
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