2024-25 Schedule News

[TEvans4Three]

But how is it calculated?

Predictive Analytics. Early models used KenPom Off and Def efficiencies to create the WAB in the first place.


Here is a simpler breakdown:

"WAB stands for wins-above-bubble or wins-above-baseline1. WAB is a résumé metric that reflects how many more (or fewer) games a team has won against its schedule than a bubble-quality team would be expected to win against that same schedule.

For example, if a bubble team would be expected to go 10-10 against a team’s schedule, but the team is actually 15-5, the team’s WAB is +5.0. If the team were 5-15, the team’s WAB would be -5.0. If the team is 10-10, the WAB is even or 0 WAB.

WAB doesn’t reward teams for “good” losses or punish teams for “easy” wins. WAB avoids binning games into quadrants that are of different difficulties2. It puts an emphasis on wins and not scoring margin."

from Bless Your Chart


It is definitely not "mumbo jumbo" and it is that kind of thought process that hinders forward thinking and proper use of data.

Here is another great article that was done by the Yale Undergrad Sports and Analytics Group to show how this data can be used to predict selection. (Note they also make fun of RPI, bc the RPI does in fact, suck.)

Bracket Math | Yale Undergraduate Sports Analytics Group

sports.sites.yale.edu

 

[WichitaSooner]

Predictive Analytics. Early models used KenPom Off and Def efficiencies to create the WAB in the first place.


Here is a simpler breakdown:

"WAB stands for wins-above-bubble or wins-above-baseline1. WAB is a résumé metric that reflects how many more (or fewer) games a team has won against its schedule than a bubble-quality team would be expected to win against that same schedule.

For example, if a bubble team would be expected to go 10-10 against a team’s schedule, but the team is actually 15-5, the team’s WAB is +5.0. If the team were 5-15, the team’s WAB would be -5.0. If the team is 10-10, the WAB is even or 0 WAB.

WAB doesn’t reward teams for “good” losses or punish teams for “easy” wins. WAB avoids binning games into quadrants that are of different difficulties2. It puts an emphasis on wins and not scoring margin."

from Bless Your Chart


It is definitely not "mumbo jumbo" and it is that kind of thought process that hinders forward thinking and proper use of data.

Here is another great article that was done by the Yale Undergrad Sports and Analytics Group to show how this data can be used to predict selection. (Note they also make fun of RPI, bc the RPI does in fact, suck.)

Bracket Math | Yale Undergraduate Sports Analytics Group

sports.sites.yale.edu

FWIW, for a few years now, I have heard/read a lot of really smart college basketball people cite it as a very, very good metric.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It is definitely not "mumbo jumbo" and it is that kind of thought process that hinders forward thinking and proper use of data.

Here is another great article that was done by the Yale Undergrad Sports and Analytics Group to show how this data can be used to predict selection. (Note they also make fun of RPI, bc the RPI does in fact, suck.)

Bracket Math | Yale Undergraduate Sports Analytics Group

sports.sites.yale.edu

"forward thinking" is pretty subjective.
I don't think we are any better today at putting the best teams in the tournament now than we were 30 years ago.
IMO it is mumbo jumbo because it is all based on hypotheticals

What is the point of expanding the tournament if all these metrics are supposed to be better at selecting the truly deserving teams?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Is there not a huge difference in the RPI which uses real results and WAB that uses hypotheticals?

Saying the RPI is stupid without saying why doesn't do anything for me

 

[WichitaSooner]

Is there not a huge difference in the RPI which uses real results and WAB that uses hypotheticals?

Saying the RPI is stupid without saying why doesn't do anything for me

Not all teams play the same schedule. Mid majors and low majors have almost no chance of playing enough games against good teams to build a high RPI. WAB is a good tool to somewhat even out that discrepancy. OU shouldn't automatically get the benefit of the doubt over a team like Indiana State just because we get a million more opportunities to beat good teams.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Not all teams play the same schedule. Mid majors and low majors have almost no chance of playing enough games against good teams to build a high RPI. WAB is a good tool to somewhat even out that discrepancy. OU shouldn't automatically get the benefit of the doubt over a team like Indiana State just because we get a million more opportunities to beat good teams.

I thought RPI took into account your record, your schedule, and your opponent's schedule

 

[TEvans4Three]

Is there not a huge difference in the RPI which uses real results and WAB that uses hypotheticals?

Saying the RPI is stupid without saying why doesn't do anything for me

I thought RPI took into account your record, your schedule, and your opponent's schedule

Look at your answer above. Same same. Saying the RPI is good without saying the why, doesn't do anything for me...


The RPI is flawed when it looks at winning games (mostly opponents).

According to the NCAA website, the RPI rankings are based on three factors: winning percentage (25 percent), opponent winning percentage (50 percent) and opponents' opponent winning percentage (25 percent).

A wrinkle is that the road wins are weighted more than home wins.

More on the flaws here: Bleacher Report Article

It also just does the percentages wrong and takes more weight into your opponents win percentage than your own. Also does not take into account H/A games.

Heck the NCAA actually introduced the NET to replace RPI.

More articles on why the RPI is flawed:
SBNATION - The NCAA tournament selection process is finally ditching the RPI
Slate.com - Why the RPI is a lousy way to pick teams for the NCAA Tournament. (This was back in 2011)

Notable Top-25 RPI teams in 2024 pre tourney selection:
-4 Dayton
-8 Drake
-9 Utah St
-10 San Diego St
-14 FAU
-18 Princeton

(Oklahoma 72nd.)

Tell you what, just look at the RPI v. the NET v. the WAB and see which one happens to look the most accurate from a rankings perspective.

From now on, instead having to "prove my point" with facts and statements, I am just going to need you to prove your statements correct and not just opinions.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Look at your answer above. Same same. Saying the RPI is good without saying the why, doesn't do anything for me...


The RPI is flawed when it looks at winning games (mostly opponents).

According to the NCAA website, the RPI rankings are based on three factors: winning percentage (25 percent), opponent winning percentage (50 percent) and opponents' opponent winning percentage (25 percent).

A wrinkle is that the road wins are weighted more than home wins.

More on the flaws here: Bleacher Report Article

It also just does the percentages wrong and takes more weight into your opponents win percentage than your own. Also does not take into account H/A games.

Heck the NCAA actually introduced the NET to replace RPI.

More articles on why the RPI is flawed:
SBNATION - The NCAA tournament selection process is finally ditching the RPI
Slate.com - Why the RPI is a lousy way to pick teams for the NCAA Tournament. (This was back in 2011)

Notable Top-25 RPI teams in 2024 pre tourney selection:
-4 Dayton
-8 Drake
-9 Utah St
-10 San Diego St
-14 FAU
-18 Princeton

(Oklahoma 72nd.)

Tell you what, just look at the RPI v. the NET v. the WAB and see which one happens to look the most accurate from a rankings perspective.

From now on, instead having to "prove my point" with facts and statements, I am just going to need you to prove your statements correct and not just opinions.

Man...someone gets their panties in a wad when fancy analytics are not praised.

Its all good man. I'm an engineer. I like numbers. But they aren't all the end all be all.
I don't like hypotheticals and the WAB seems like a lot of hypothethicals (such and such team would have won this many games with such and such's schedule). I'm out on that stuff.

College BBall is already going down the drain anyways so why not though

You are a great poster. Don't let a disagreement turn things sour

 

[WichitaSooner]

Getting annoyed the Battle 4 Atlantis bracket isn't out yet. And also wondering why our remaining two noncon games haven't been announced. Seems like our full noncon has usually been announced by this point.

 

[CoachTalk]

Rothstein reporting that Steve Lutz told him that Bedlam will likely be played in mid-December in OKC.

That’s one of the big hold ups.

Hammer it out. Release the whole thing!

 

[WichitaSooner]

That’s one of the big hold ups.

Hammer it out. Release the whole thing!

Makes sense. I can see how that one is trickier than the other games but it shouldn’t be THAT difficult if they’ve agreed to play.

 

[CoachTalk]

Makes sense. I can see how that one is trickier than the other games but it shouldn’t be THAT difficult if they’ve agreed to play.

Agree.

 

[CoachTalk]

 

[BoulderSooner]

SEC Unveils 2024-25 Men's Hoops Slate - University of Oklahoma

NORMAN – The Southeastern Conference (SEC) unveiled Oklahoma's 2024-25 men's basketball conference schedule on Tuesday, featuring nine home games at Lloyd No...

soonersports.com

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Looks a lot less intimidating than big 12 schedules

 

[Boom Soon]

Hmmmm. Th move to the SEC definitely helped the football schedule, but I just don’t see many of these teams garnering a lot of excitement during bball.

 

[CoachTalk]

Hmmmm. Th move to the SEC definitely helped the football schedule, but I just don’t see many of these teams garnering a lot of excitement during bball.

I like them all. Give me new teams to play!

 

[WichitaSooner]

Atlantis bracket will be released tomorrow.

 

[MJSooner]

Hmmmm. Th move to the SEC definitely helped the football schedule, but I just don’t see many of these teams garnering a lot of excitement during bball.

Really?? Kentucky, Rick Barnes/Tennesee, ol’ Miz-zou, Buzz and A&M, driving to catch a game at Bud?!?

I’ll take those games all day over Taco Tech, Baylor, Corn State, and having pompous arse Jayhawk fans in the LNC. Doesn’t count games at Ole Miss and Beard, or Bama. And maybe we even keep Bedlam in OKC.

Yeah, playing Vandy or MSU is a big yawn, but plenty of exciting and tough games on the schedule.

And so ready to move on from the Big XII and that BS helps with the excitement, at least for me.

 

[Boom Soon]

Really?? Kentucky, Rick Barnes/Tennesee, ol’ Miz-zou, Buzz and A&M, driving to catch a game at Bud?!?

I’ll take those games all day over Taco Tech, Baylor, Corn State, and having pompous arse Jayhawk fans in the LNC. Doesn’t count games at Ole Miss and Beard, or Bama. And maybe we even keep Bedlam in OKC.

Yeah, playing Vandy or MSU is a big yawn, but plenty of exciting and tough games on the schedule.

And so ready to move on from the Big XII and that BS helps with the excitement, at least for me.

I guess we’ll see! I hope I’m wrong!