#21 OU vs #6 KU 3pm CST on ESPN

[CMSOONER]

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic in your response, but as a resident stat-nerd and for people who hate KenPom (I don't get it), it giveth and it taketh away...KenPom rates Kansas as the #19 team in the country in Adj Efficiency metrics...so they are def inflated. Road wise, they are atrocious...unless it's LNC.

They were the AP #6 team in the country. Them's facts.

 

[CMSOONER]

Talk to me when PM actually secures a .500 season in conference (lon wasnt a world beater in conference either, but he was at least .500 3 out of those 6 years).

Lon never play in a Big 12 that is as stacked as it is now. Lon's last 5 teams would have been no better than this years team in this league today.

And I was always a Lon supporter.

 

[sdcloud9]

Lon never play in a Big 12 that is as stacked as it is now. Lon's last 5 teams would have been no better than this years team in this league today.

And I was always a Lon supporter.

I think you can say the same for Sampson's teams as well (win-loss record). I like Kelvin but his teams wouldn't have the same record in today's league. That's why it's hard to compare eras in sports.

 

[skyvue]

Lon never play in a Big 12 that is as stacked as it is now. Lon's last 5 teams would have been no better than this years team in this league today.

And I was always a Lon supporter.

The conference was in the running for toughest in the country for a good part of Lon's tenure. It's not a recent thing. I'm not saying those later Kruger teams would have done any better than this year's team, but I think you underestimate the Big 12's standing in those years.

 

[TEvans4Three]

Lon never play in a Big 12 that is as stacked as it is now. Lon's last 5 teams would have been no better than this years team in this league today.

And I was always a Lon supporter.

I've put the season by season comparison here before. Lon's last few years he was always in the top 10 SOS.

So this is not accurate.

 

[sooner333]

The conference was in the running for toughest in the country for a good part of Lon's tenure. It's not a recent thing. I'm not saying those later Kruger teams would have done any better than this year's team, but I think you underestimate the Big 12's standing in those years.

The 20-21 team would be better, IMO. Talent wise it’s no question—a guy who is on an eight figure NBA deal, a guy who is a G-League all star in Williams, a big who is a knock down three point shooter, and a shot blocking menace.

 

[CMSOONER]

I've put the season by season comparison here before. Lon's last few years he was always in the top 10 SOS.

So this is not accurate.

Apparently what seems to matter to the Moser haters here is conference only. This team has been AP Top 25 for almost the entire season and....until the KU loss was .500 in conference, another acceptable measuring stick apparently. Yet the witch hunt is out for Moser.

Am I happy with the current state of the program? No. Is the program better than when Moser took over? Not sure we'll truly know, but is say so far we're where we were in Lon's final year. That year we were ranked in AP Top 25 for 7 weeks. This year we've been ranked for 11 weeks. The difference, this year has been early season and Lon's was the last 7 weeks. Is this season trending down, yes. Is there still time to turn it around. Also yes. Losses to UH and ISU may be foregone conclusions. But if the team can be competitive and look like we hope that they should and somehow swing 3 more wins, that's moving in the right direction. The last thing this program needs is a knee jerk reaction to fire Moser. That would set the program back, likely worse than we saw in Moser's first year. Some of you think you're frustrated now. Let's go through another coaching search and program rebuild and hope a quality coach is interested.

That said, if he wants to leave then I fully support helping him find the door. But if he's still all in he needs another year. He got "His guys", take that at face value. The pace is better than last year, albeit still not what most of us envisioned. Regardless how the remainder of this season plays out he deserves another year. Next year is make or brake, plain and simple.

 

[skyvue]

Apparently what seems to matter to the Moser haters here is conference only.

Nothing new there. Kruger's critics had that same focus. The ironic thing is that Kruger finished below .500 in conference play just four times, one of them being his first season. He finished .500 or better his final two seasons, but you'd have never known it by some on this board.

 

[Soonerinkc]

Nothing new there. Kruger's critics had that same focus. The ironic thing is that Kruger finished below .500 in conference play just four times, one of them being his first season. He finished .500 or better his final two seasons, but you'd have never known it by some on this board.

Respectfully question… then if only going .500 or a little less, in the toughest conference.. should translate into at least a win or dare I say more in the ncaa tourney.

We’ll see if below .500 ( total yet to be determined) gets us a ticket into the tourney… then we should win at least 1 (puts us in top 32 teams) … 2 would be top 16.

We’ll find out in a month or so.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Apparently what seems to matter to the Moser haters here is conference only. This team has been AP Top 25 for almost the entire season and....until the KU loss was .500 in conference, another acceptable measuring stick apparently. Yet the witch hunt is out for Moser.

Am I happy with the current state of the program? No. Is the program better than when Moser took over? Not sure we'll truly know, but is say so far we're where we were in Lon's final year. That year we were ranked in AP Top 25 for 7 weeks. This year we've been ranked for 11 weeks. The difference, this year has been early season and Lon's was the last 7 weeks. Is this season trending down, yes. Is there still time to turn it around. Also yes. Losses to UH and ISU may be foregone conclusions. But if the team can be competitive and look like we hope that they should and somehow swing 3 more wins, that's moving in the right direction. The last thing this program needs is a knee jerk reaction to fire Moser. That would set the program back, likely worse than we saw in Moser's first year. Some of you think you're frustrated now. Let's go through another coaching search and program rebuild and hope a quality coach is interested.

That said, if he wants to leave then I fully support helping him find the door. But if he's still all in he needs another year. He got "His guys", take that at face value. The pace is better than last year, albeit still not what most of us envisioned. Regardless how the remainder of this season plays out he deserves another year. Next year is make or brake, plain and simple.

Disagree that porter deserves another year regardless. If he misses the tourney, then thats a complete all around failure every year hes been here

 

[TEvans4Three]

Apparently what seems to matter to the Moser haters here is conference only. This team has been AP Top 25 for almost the entire season and....until the KU loss was .500 in conference, another acceptable measuring stick apparently. Yet the witch hunt is out for Moser.

Am I happy with the current state of the program? No. Is the program better than when Moser took over? Not sure we'll truly know, but is say so far we're where we were in Lon's final year. That year we were ranked in AP Top 25 for 7 weeks. This year we've been ranked for 11 weeks. The difference, this year has been early season and Lon's was the last 7 weeks. Is this season trending down, yes. Is there still time to turn it around. Also yes. Losses to UH and ISU may be foregone conclusions. But if the team can be competitive and look like we hope that they should and somehow swing 3 more wins, that's moving in the right direction. The last thing this program needs is a knee jerk reaction to fire Moser. That would set the program back, likely worse than we saw in Moser's first year. Some of you think you're frustrated now. Let's go through another coaching search and program rebuild and hope a quality coach is interested.

That said, if he wants to leave then I fully support helping him find the door. But if he's still all in he needs another year. He got "His guys", take that at face value. The pace is better than last year, albeit still not what most of us envisioned. Regardless how the remainder of this season plays out he deserves another year. Next year is make or brake, plain and simple.

Not a lot of good metrics there for just conference SOS, but here is a look at each season back to 1995. (Note the 95-99 is Big8 and not in KP)

Year	Coach	Record	KP OU Rank	SOS	Big12 Finish	Top25 Big12 teams	Tourney Seed	Tourney Result	Top50 teams	Top50 teams by %
1995​	Sampson	23-9 (9-5)		48​	3	4​	4	L to Manhattan
1996​	Sampson	17-13 (8-6)		52​	3	2​	10	L to Temple
1997​	Sampson	19-11 (9-7)		83​	6	5​	11	L to Stanford
1998​	Sampson	22-11 (11-5)		89​	2	1​	10	L to Indiana
1999​	Sampson	21-11 (11-5)	33​	91​	4	1​	13	W, W, L to Mich St.	5​	42%​
2000​	Sampson	27-7 (12-4)	11​	70​	3	4​	3	W, L to Purdue	6​	50%​
2001​	Sampson	26-7 (12-4)	21​	81​	3	2​	4	L to Indiana St.	4​	33%​
2002​	Sampson	31-5 (13-3)	5​	26​	2	1​	2	W, W, W, W, L to Indiana	6​	50%​
2003​	Sampson	27-7 (12-4)	9​	24​	3	3​	1	W, W, W, L to Syracuse	7​	58%​
2004​	Sampson	20-11 (8-8)	56​	43​	7	3​	NIT	W, L to Michigan	5​	42%​
2005​	Sampson	25-8 (12-4)	12​	34​	1	2​	3	W, L to Utah	7​	58%​
2006​	Sampson	20-9 (11-5)	45​	60​	3	2​	6	L to Milwaukee	3​	25%​
2007​	Capel III	16-15 (6-10)	58​	62​	9	3​			3​	25%​
2008​	Capel III	23-12 (9-7)	44​	18​	4	3​	6	W, L to Louisville	7​	58%​
2009​	Capel III	30-6 (13-3)	7​	29​	2	3​	2	W, W, W, L to N. Carolina	7​	58%​
2010​	Capel III	13-18 (4-12)	104​	13​	10	6​			6​	50%​
2011​	Capel III	14-18 (5-11)	144​	48​	10	2​			5​	42%​
2012​	Kruger	15-16 (5-13)	105​	41​	8	4​			6​	43%​
2013​	Kruger	20-12 (11-7)	51​	27​	4	2​	10	L to San Diego St.	5​	36%​
2014​	Kruger	23-10 (12-6)	30​	20​	2	3​	5	L to N. Dakota St.	7​	50%​
2015​	Kruger	24-11 (12-6)	11​	5​	2	6​	3	W, W, L to Mich St.	8​	57%​
2016​	Kruger	29-8 (12-6)	10​	1​	3	5​	2	W, W, W, W, L to Villanova	6​	43%​
2017​	Kruger	11-20 (5-13)	65​	2​	9	5​			8​	80%​
2018​	Kruger	18-14 (8-10)	48​	5​	6	4​	10	L to Rhode Island	8​	57%​
2019​	Kruger	20-14 (7-11)	32​	3​	7	5​	9	W, L to Virginia	8​	80%​
2020​	Kruger	19-12 (9-9)	36​	5​	3	4​	covid	covid	5​	36%​
2021​	Kruger	16-11 (9-8)	39​	43​	6	3​	8	W, L to Gonzaga	7​	70%​
2022​	Moser	19-16 (7-11)	30​	7​	7	4​	NIT	W, L to St. Bonaventure	8​	57%​
2023​	Moser	15-17 (5-13)	54​	2​	9	6​			8​	80%​
2024​	Moser	18-8 (6-7)	37​	67​	9 (current)	6​			10​	71%​

I know this is more of a simplistic look at it but here is the AVG breakdown of Top50 conference teams by coach:
Sampson - 45%
Capel III - 47%
Kruger - 55%
Moser - 70%

It should also be noted, Big12 with 12 teams means you don't play the H/A with everyone...so some schedules are not created equal. I don't have the time/will to go through and break down OU's schedule each year, but could do it.

 

[WTSooner]

Cool. So the league and other league teams in the league get better, but OU doesn’t/hasnt.

Such a poor excuse.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Cool. So the league and other league teams in the league get better, but OU doesn’t/hasnt.

Such a poor excuse.

You don’t think ou is better?

 

[allday92]

Apparently what seems to matter to the Moser haters here is conference only. This team has been AP Top 25 for almost the entire season and....until the KU loss was .500 in conference, another acceptable measuring stick apparently. Yet the witch hunt is out for Moser.

Am I happy with the current state of the program? No. Is the program better than when Moser took over? Not sure we'll truly know, but is say so far we're where we were in Lon's final year. That year we were ranked in AP Top 25 for 7 weeks. This year we've been ranked for 11 weeks. The difference, this year has been early season and Lon's was the last 7 weeks. Is this season trending down, yes. Is there still time to turn it around. Also yes. Losses to UH and ISU may be foregone conclusions. But if the team can be competitive and look like we hope that they should and somehow swing 3 more wins, that's moving in the right direction. The last thing this program needs is a knee jerk reaction to fire Moser. That would set the program back, likely worse than we saw in Moser's first year. Some of you think you're frustrated now. Let's go through another coaching search and program rebuild and hope a quality coach is interested.

That said, if he wants to leave then I fully support helping him find the door. But if he's still all in he needs another year. He got "His guys", take that at face value. The pace is better than last year, albeit still not what most of us envisioned. Regardless how the remainder of this season plays out he deserves another year. Next year is make or brake, plain and simple.

Good post and agree with your overall sentiment. In year 3, he's corrected the roster mistakes of the first two years. The athleticism of the team has improved leaps and bounds and increased the overall floor of the team.

This year's roster lacks shooting and the team's best players need to refine their skills. With Porter, good chance you keep the core intact - Los, Oweh, Moore, Luke, Cooper, Cole. Keep Forsythe and Atak. Give them a full off-season with an NBA development guy in Jesperson. Find an above the rim big and some shooting in the portal and everything will be a lot better.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Good post and agree with your overall sentiment. In year 3, he's corrected the roster mistakes of the first two years. The athleticism of the team has improved leaps and bounds and increased the overall floor of the team.

This year's roster lacks shooting and the team's best players need to refine their skills. With Porter, good chance you keep the core intact - Los, Oweh, Moore, Luke, Cooper, Cole. Keep Forsythe and Atak. Give them a full off-season with an NBA development guy in Jesperson. Find an above the rim big and some shooting in the portal and everything will be a lot better.

Two thoughts: you consider Luke a core member of a P5 roster? And second, if PM is back next year, the odds of all the guys you list returning are very slim. He has lost multiple returning starters to the portal in each of the past two season. If this season continues to spiral downward, guys will be looking for better opportunities.

 

[Boom Soon]

Good post and agree with your overall sentiment. In year 3, he's corrected the roster mistakes of the first two years. The athleticism of the team has improved leaps and bounds and increased the overall floor of the team.

This year's roster lacks shooting and the team's best players need to refine their skills. With Porter, good chance you keep the core intact - Los, Oweh, Moore, Luke, Cooper, Cole. Keep Forsythe and Atak. Give them a full off-season with an NBA development guy in Jesperson. Find an above the rim big and some shooting in the portal and everything will be a lot better.

I agree hypothetically. I don’t think those guys stay if OU misses the tournament again.

Two thoughts: you consider Luke a core member of a P5 roster? And second, if PM is back next year, the odds of all the guys you list returning are very slim. He has lost multiple returning starters to the portal in each of the past two season. If this season continues to spiral downward, guys will be looking for better opportunities.

Oh absolutely. Depending on how the season ends the roster will completely turnover.

 

[mict085]

If OU loses 4 of their last 5 games, do we still get in the ncaa tourney?

What if we lose all 5 of our remaining games?

Both of those scenarios are just as likely as winning any combination of the remaining games.

 

[allday92]

Two thoughts: you consider Luke a core member of a P5 roster? And second, if PM is back next year, the odds of all the guys you list returning are very slim. He has lost multiple returning starters to the portal in each of the past two season. If this season continues to spiral downward, guys will be looking for better opportunities.

I do consider Luke to be a part of the core. The game is too fast for him right now, but it will eventually slow down. Shooting with size is an undervalued skill. Virginia found value with Jacob Groves. North Carolina made a title game with Brady Manek playing a significant role. Luke plays a different position, but being able to play a 5 out offense is killer.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I do consider Luke to be a part of the core. The game is too fast for him right now, but it will eventually slow down. Shooting with size is an undervalued skill. Virginia found value with Jacob Groves. North Carolina made a title game with Brady Manek playing a significant role. Luke plays a different position, but being able to play a 5 out offense is killer.

It’s a skill he doesn’t have. He is a 26 percent shooter. His high school and practice numbers are irrelevant. We are 26 games into the season and when he checks into games, the only thing anyone keeps bringing up is that he made a couple shots in Lawrence six weeks ago.

The issue isn’t that the game is too fast. It’s that he is too slow. No foot speed or quickness. Is that going to change? I have no doubt he could make shots in high school and probably could at a low major where he would have more time to get his shot off. Comparing him to Manek isn’t remotely accurate. Brady had one of the fastest releases I’ve ever seen, and it was there from day one of his freshman year.

If he is part of our core, it basically guarantees we will be in the lower half of our league moving forward.

 

[WTSooner]

You don’t think ou is better?

Better than we were before the Big 12 as a whole improved?

No.

This isn't about being better than last year. It's about the argument that the Big 12 has improved SO much over the last decade. If so, why hasn't OU?