Anyone listening to the Animal?

Sooner04 said:
So, those who believe OU is a better job please explain your philosophy. I'd be more apt to agree with you if I believed our Administration gave a hoot.


Well, whatever. I guess you can just go back to *****ing about boca and abd. I'm just trying to have a decent debate here.
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All I'm saying is that you can look at about 100 years of history and there is little to no statistical evidence that can be offered that points to Missouri being a better program. I have a hard time dismissing that in favor of conjecture that is backed up by nothing but opinion.
 
I think this argument is kind of skewed. Some think we're arguing historically and some are in the here and now. Right now, Mizzou is the better program. It's amazing what one bad hire can do for a program. Historically, OU has more wins and more wins in the tourney. I think we're all winners here, it just depends on what you're arguing. If I had two job offers on the table, MU or OU, I'd probably take the MU job. It would be close though.
 
you are aware the animal was talking about Missouri being a better JOB than OU CURRENTLY. right? It seems some of you have twisted this into which school has a better historical program, which was not the point at all.

But don't let facts get in the way.

I tend to agree that MU's head basketball JOB CURRENTLY is better than the situation with OU's head basketball JOB CURRENTLY. Historically, I would not agree and do not agree that MU's program is historically better.

I have no proof that the MU job is better than the OU job. Nor does anyone else. Either way.
 
seniorsooner said:
All I'm saying is that you can look at about 100 years of history and there is little to no statistical evidence that can be offered that points to Missouri being a better program. I have a hard time dismissing that in favor of conjecture that is backed up by nothing but opinion.
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Mizzou was a nobody in basketball before Norm Stewart took over. He elevated that program to being the top program in the conference along with KSU in the 70's. In fact, Hartman, Stewart and Tubbs is why KU fired Owens and hired Brown.

I am going to say statistically, you can't find any evidence to support the argument that Mizzou is a better program. However, I think based on fan support, athletic department support Mizzou may be better. I definitely don't think it's a slam dunk that OU is a better job.
 
Sooner04 said:
Personally, I think Missouri is a better job than Oklahoma.

1. It is THE marquee bball job in the state (the vast majority of folks in this state still think O-State is heads and shoulders above OU in bball).

2. The arena.

3. NO NBA competition.


I know we've had more success than Mizzou, but I'm not convinced it's not a better job. They take their BBall pretty seriously up there.
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This... Mizzou is a better job than OU for hoops.
 
jessegl25 said:
Right now, Mizzou is the better program.
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See I think this is a tricky argument. Right now Missouri's program is in better shape, there's no doubt about that. But does that mean it's definitively a better program? I just don't think that when program A has a long, long track record of being at least equal to or superior to program B that program B can suddenly become superior overnight. Can the level of success change throughout the years? Absolutely. Just look at OU football - at the conclusion of the 1998 season I am sure there are a lot of people out there that would have said that a program like say, Georgia, had become the superior program. Looking back on it 10+ years later and that's obviously not the case. And no I'm not equating OU basketball with OU football, just using an anecdotal example.
 
I won't go back and look at 100 years, but I did just go back and look at everything from 1975-76 on (encompassing all of Dave Bliss, Billy Tubbs, Kelvin Sampson and Jeff Capel for OU and all of Quin and Anderson and all but about a decade of Norm for Mizzou).

Over that 35 year span, OU averages about 1.5 more wins per season overall and 0.5 more conference wins and does have 2 final fours, but Mizzou has more conference championships (15 to 12). OU has the NCAA tournament edge by one - 23-22 - but Missouri did win the Big 8 tournament in a year they were barred from post-season play, so it's pretty much even there.

The only real edge OU can claim is a final four, and your last one game over two decades ago.
 
Sawyer said:
I won't go back and look at 100 years, but I did just go back and look at everything from 1975-76 on (encompassing all of Dave Bliss, Billy Tubbs, Kelvin Sampson and Jeff Capel for OU and all of Quin and Anderson and all but about a decade of Norm for Mizzou).

Over that 35 year span, OU averages about 1.5 more wins per season overall and 0.5 more conference wins and does have 2 final fours, but Mizzou has more conference championships (15 to 12). OU has the NCAA tournament edge by one - 23-22 - but Missouri did win the Big 8 tournament in a year they were barred from post-season play, so it's pretty much even there.

The only real edge OU can claim is a final four, and your last one game over two decades ago.
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ouch. that's humbling to read. except for 2002 you nailed it.
 
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Sawyer said:
I won't go back and look at 100 years, but I did just go back and look at everything from 1975-76 on (encompassing all of Dave Bliss, Billy Tubbs, Kelvin Sampson and Jeff Capel for OU and all of Quin and Anderson and all but about a decade of Norm for Mizzou).

Over that 35 year span, OU averages about 1.5 more wins per season overall and 0.5 more conference wins and does have 2 final fours, but Mizzou has more conference championships (15 to 12). OU has the NCAA tournament edge by one - 23-22 - but Missouri did win the Big 8 tournament in a year they were barred from post-season play, so it's pretty much even there.

The only real edge OU can claim is a final four, and your last one game over two decades ago.
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Has it really been that long since 2002, the years really just fly by.
 
Sawyer said:
I won't go back and look at 100 years, but I did just go back and look at everything from 1975-76 on (encompassing all of Dave Bliss, Billy Tubbs, Kelvin Sampson and Jeff Capel for OU and all of Quin and Anderson and all but about a decade of Norm for Mizzou).

Over that 35 year span, OU averages about 1.5 more wins per season overall and 0.5 more conference wins and does have 2 final fours, but Mizzou has more conference championships (15 to 12). OU has the NCAA tournament edge by one - 23-22 - but Missouri did win the Big 8 tournament in a year they were barred from post-season play, so it's pretty much even there.

The only real edge OU can claim is a final four, and your last one game over two decades ago.
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This was so close to being a good post, reach higher.
 
Sawyer said:
The only real edge OU can claim is a final four, and your last one game over two decades ago.
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Are you intentionally glossing over our 2002 trip? Me, I still send a Christmas card to Clarence Gilbert every year.
 
it's funny because we beat Mizzouri to get there LOL
 
Okay to be serious despite the one factual error he's really just proven my point for me. All I've said in this thread is that there is no evidence that Missouri is a "better" program than OU, and he's just reinforced that. Even in the "golden era" of Missouri basketball the program is at best even with OU over the same period.
 
I believe both are about even...however, if I am a coach I take Mizzou over OU due to the circumstances.
 
InExile said:
you are aware the animal was talking about Missouri being a better JOB than OU CURRENTLY. right? It seems some of you have twisted this into which school has a better historical program, which was not the point at all.
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That's not at all what the Animal was talking about. They were discussing what the better job is, period. That includes historical tradition, proven by Mark Rodgers citing that Mizzou has never been to a Final Four, suggesting it could not be a better job than OU.


The word currently was never used in the discussion
 
InExile said:
ouch. that's humbling to read. except for 2002 you nailed it.
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Yeah... just realized that I missed that one. Sucks because you beat MU to get there...

Also perhaps worth noting: probably Norm's best overall team and best shot at a final four was the year he went down with cancer. Kinda changes things.
 
Okay answer this very hypothetical question....

Let's say the Mizzou job and the OU job opened up tomorrow...Everyone's (on this board, not mine) favorite unemployed coach, Billy Clyde, is the frontrunner for both gigs...

Which one does he choose?
 
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