Baylor

Lets call a spade a spade. There are several OU fans that have been expressing dissatisfaction with the results of OU WBB for some years. And they are justified in doing so. As Sherri set the performance standards for the OU program from 2000-2009 and has failed to sustain them.

During that ten year period OU won 6 regular season conference championships and 4 tournament championships. They went to two final fours and one championship game. Sherri declared that it was the Guys goal to annually compete for conference and national championships. She set the expectations for the fans with her words and on the court.

Beginning 2010 until the present OU has won zero regular season championships and zero tournament championships and made one trip to the final four six years ago. Not the performance standards Sherri set for herself, her team and expected by the fans. During this time span Baylor became the de facto performance benchmark for the Big 12.

Fans are rightfully disgruntled that Sherri is not coming close to acheiving her self stated standard while earning a salary that is among the top 5 in the country. Few want to pay for a consistent top 8 team and instead get a consistent top 10-20 team. Hence they migrate to this website to discuss with their peer what are the team shortcomings and how can they be retified. Nothing more, nothing less. No one has called for Sherri's head. Not Vinnie, not Soonerbay, not really anyone.

Many comparisons are made with Baylor because the are the performance standard for the conference and who you have to go through to reach the Sooner goals. During the last 6 season while we were winning zero championships the Bears have won 5 tournament championships, 5 regular season championships and gone to 3 Elite Eights, 2 Final Fours and won 1 National Championship.

It is only logical to look at their program and ask what are they doing that we are not doing? How do we get on par with the Bears? How do we attain the goals set by Sherri? Until Sherri is thumping Kim's behind Baylor is going to be regularly discussed on this board. Just as the media is going to make certain that B12 WBB fans are aware of everything the Bears do to win basketball games.

There are no easy answers to Sherri's problems. You cannot snap your fingers and make Baylor and Kim go away. For certain we cannot continue rest on our laurels and compete with Baylor. Also it is premature to make a final judgement but it appears that Texas is attempting to take steps to compete on par with Baylor. We know that Aston has significantly elevated the level of talent in Austin to be more competitive but it is still undetermined if Aston can coach them up to be truly competitive. But for certain OU fans should be concerned that Texas may soon pass the Guys as the second best program in the league unless we step up and become more competitive.

Sherri has made recent progress in elevating the level of the talent on the team and more appears to be on the way to the Sooners but I think she is going to have double her effectiveness in signing top talent if she is going to have her team consistently on the same plateau as Kim has her team annually. Time will tell and it probably will not take more than two years to know for certain.
A reasonable post. But, the concerns of their opposition is that they are a bit too selective in their attacks and vehement in their indignation.

Everyone knows the records. We see who is winning. We also see some of the reasons. There are also reasons that some of us would never tolerate a program at OU that operated like that of Baylor.

It is interesting that those who are so willing to accept that the failure of Texas to function well in conference play as being only due to injuries appear to be so unwilling to accept that OU has had even worse injury histories.

Reasonable posts are acceptable. It would be nice if the fact that the glass is 76.47% full were celebrated as much as its 23.53% failure is criticized. Right now, OU has been in a bit of a slump. But, OU is +1 in the conference, along with WV. Baylor and Texas are+2. But, OU hasn't had the weak teams on the road yet. The others have. We're doing pretty well.
 
It is human nature, and some might say the nature of all living things, to focus on problems.


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Can you name any team in the last 5 years that has gone to a final four with no McD players?

WEll- its a good thing we got ONE coming!

I can't find any- its a fair point. But its also a fair point that 90% of the teams that got one, got nowhere near the final four- and some of them got several.

Also w/ Uconn, Notre Dame and Stanford making up 65% of the possible choices, thats not an easy list to to crack.

Also noting Baylor made 1 of those final fours. And they have made just as many as us total
 
I also should correct myself- I found that Niya Johnson was the 43rd ranked player but was a McDs all-American. So- it's fair to say McDonalds All-American team is a much better evaluator than the various media outlets. They still don't get everyone right- but they definitely don't get everyone wrong ethier. I think we got two diamonds in the rough out of Gioya and Maddie, I think the next two years if Maddie stays we will have a shot at going deep. Hopefully we can get a few more athletes plugged in during that time.
 
Did any of these teams have McDonalds's All Americans?

2002 OU women's basketball
2005 Baylor women's basketball
2016 OU men's basketball
 
Lets call a spade a spade. There are several OU fans that have been expressing dissatisfaction with the results of OU WBB for some years. And they are justified in doing so. As Sherri set the performance standards for the OU program from 2000-2009 and has failed to sustain them.

During that ten year period OU won 6 regular season conference championships and 4 tournament championships. They went to two final fours and one championship game. Sherri declared that it was the Guys goal to annually compete for conference and national championships. She set the expectations for the fans with her words and on the court.

Beginning 2010 until the present OU has won zero regular season championships and zero tournament championships and made one trip to the final four six years ago. Not the performance standards Sherri set for herself, her team and expected by the fans. During this time span Baylor became the de facto performance benchmark for the Big 12.

Fans are rightfully disgruntled that Sherri is not coming close to acheiving her self stated standard while earning a salary that is among the top 5 in the country. Few want to pay for a consistent top 8 team and instead get a consistent top 10-20 team. Hence they migrate to this website to discuss with their peer what are the team shortcomings and how can they be retified. Nothing more, nothing less. No one has called for Sherri's head. Not Vinnie, not Soonerbay, not really anyone.

Many comparisons are made with Baylor because the are the performance standard for the conference and who you have to go through to reach the Sooner goals. During the last 6 season while we were winning zero championships the Bears have won 5 tournament championships, 5 regular season championships and gone to 3 Elite Eights, 2 Final Fours and won 1 National Championship.

It is only logical to look at their program and ask what are they doing that we are not doing? How do we get on par with the Bears? How do we attain the goals set by Sherri? Until Sherri is thumping Kim's behind Baylor is going to be regularly discussed on this board. Just as the media is going to make certain that B12 WBB fans are aware of everything the Bears do to win basketball games.

There are no easy answers to Sherri's problems. You cannot snap your fingers and make Baylor and Kim go away. For certain we cannot continue rest on our laurels and compete with Baylor. Also it is premature to make a final judgement but it appears that Texas is attempting to take steps to compete on par with Baylor. We know that Aston has significantly elevated the level of talent in Austin to be more competitive but it is still undetermined if Aston can coach them up to be truly competitive. But for certain OU fans should be concerned that Texas may soon pass the Guys as the second best program in the league unless we step up and become more competitive.

Sherri has made recent progress in elevating the level of the talent on the team and more appears to be on the way to the Sooners but I think she is going to have double her effectiveness in signing top talent if she is going to have her team consistently on the same plateau as Kim has her team annually. Time will tell and it probably will not take more than two years to know for certain.

You are making some valid points, SS. I'm going to make a few responses, not to argue, but to at least look at some alternate ways to view what has happened.

1. In the same way most teams found it almost impossible to beat us with Courtney, it was hard to beat BU with Griner. In addition, over the Griner years, we had terrible and significant injuries. Most of the years you are referring to are those years. I suggest it is just not reasonable to look at those years to complain about not winning the conference. I do not measure any coach - including Sherri - by arguing they should have defeated BU regularly when Griner was there. Some may argue we should have taped up those acl knees and out jumped her at all times. That seems silly to me.

2. Some have called for Sherri to be fired, at least that is how I have interpreted their words. I do not disagree that a person has the right to want that, say that, argue she is a weak coach, or whatever. But if they say that, it is just as right for others to argue otherwise. We have all been disappointed at times. That does not mean all of us think she is delivering so little she should be fired. I believe Sherri has a better track record in many ways than Bob Stoops (who I'm glad is our coach). Expecting a team to be in the Final Four every year is not reasonable. A couple do that (ND, UCONN), but very, very few. For goodness sakes, if I was a BU fan I would be furious with my teams over the 4 Griner years. Only 2 Final Fours and 1 National Championship is disgraceful while having a player that dominant. If that is all you have with her, what chance will you have without her? I bet Kim understands that even if some others don't.

3. I like Karen Ashton probably more than any Big-12 coach other than Sherri. But to even begin to make some argument about Texas, it is absolutely imperative that we look at the actual results over the years. Over the past 15 years or so, we have finished ahead of Texas almost every single year. Even though year after year after year the "recruiting experts" rated their recruits vastly better than ours, we have finished far better. Many of those years we were finishing 1st or 2nd and they were finishing as low as 7th. How would we feel if Sherri was doing that badly? I have to believe Texas is improving with Karen. It is silly to assume we can finish ahead of them every year for 15 , 20, 30 years. Obviously sometimes they will finish ahead of us. Maybe this year. But if so, they will need to repeat that for the next 14 years to make up for the past 15.

The rest of the year will be interesting to watch. I'm totally puzzled by what happened against North Texas and then was repeated against OSU. The fact it happened twice is particularly worrisome. At the same time, we looked really impressive against Tech Wednesday. No one in the league has put together such a dominant and overall powerful performance this year. In addition we are positioned pretty well in the conference stats at this point.

I'm not ready to surrender anything. Let's play it out. No one said it better than the indomitable Yogi Berra: It's never over till it's over. Folks, it is definitely not over yet. Don't give up now.
 
SoonerNorm said:
Sherri will need to recruit the same or better type players that (than) Kim is bringing in.


So are you guys arguing that we out-recruited Baylor the past few years? We did beat them last year in Norman.

Or is it possible there is more to winning than just recruiting McDonald's All Americans?
 
Can you name any team in the last 5 years that has gone to a final four with no McD players?

Did you do some research and discover that a team went to the FF 6 years ago and had no McDonald's AA players? That's a silly game to play.

Everyone would love to have McDonald's All American players but there isn't that much difference between players who almost make it and those who do. And, like most 'All-State' teams, there is a lot of politics involved. Anyone who says there isn't doesn't know what they are talking about.
 
You are making some valid points, SS. I'm going to make a few responses, not to argue, but to at least look at some alternate ways to view what has happened.

1. In the same way most teams found it almost impossible to beat us with Courtney, it was hard to beat BU with Griner. In addition, over the Griner years, we had terrible and significant injuries. Most of the years you are referring to are those years. I suggest it is just not reasonable to look at those years to complain about not winning the conference. I do not measure any coach - including Sherri - by arguing they should have defeated BU regularly when Griner was there. Some may argue we should have taped up those acl knees and out jumped her at all times. That seems silly to me.

2. Some have called for Sherri to be fired, at least that is how I have interpreted their words. I do not disagree that a person has the right to want that, say that, argue she is a weak coach, or whatever. But if they say that, it is just as right for others to argue otherwise. We have all been disappointed at times. That does not mean all of us think she is delivering so little she should be fired. I believe Sherri has a better track record in many ways than Bob Stoops (who I'm glad is our coach). Expecting a team to be in the Final Four every year is not reasonable. A couple do that (ND, UCONN), but very, very few. For goodness sakes, if I was a BU fan I would be furious with my teams over the 4 Griner years. Only 2 Final Fours and 1 National Championship is disgraceful while having a player that dominant. If that is all you have with her, what chance will you have without her? I bet Kim understands that even if some others don't.

3. I like Karen Ashton probably more than any Big-12 coach other than Sherri. But to even begin to make some argument about Texas, it is absolutely imperative that we look at the actual results over the years. Over the past 15 years or so, we have finished ahead of Texas almost every single year. Even though year after year after year the "recruiting experts" rated their recruits vastly better than ours, we have finished far better. Many of those years we were finishing 1st or 2nd and they were finishing as low as 7th. How would we feel if Sherri was doing that badly? I have to believe Texas is improving with Karen. It is silly to assume we can finish ahead of them every year for 15 , 20, 30 years. Obviously sometimes they will finish ahead of us. Maybe this year. But if so, they will need to repeat that for the next 14 years to make up for the past 15.

The rest of the year will be interesting to watch. I'm totally puzzled by what happened against North Texas and then was repeated against OSU. The fact it happened twice is particularly worrisome. At the same time, we looked really impressive against Tech Wednesday. No one in the league has put together such a dominant and overall powerful performance this year. In addition we are positioned pretty well in the conference stats at this point.

I'm not ready to surrender anything. Let's play it out. No one said it better than the indomitable Yogi Berra: It's never over till it's over. Folks, it is definitely not over yet. Don't give up now.

Don't forget Odyssey! She was there for 3 of the 4 Griner years and she was 1st team All-American and #2 overall draft pick! :)
 
So are you guys arguing that we out-recruited Baylor the past few years? We did beat them last year in Norman.

Or is it possible there is more to winning than just recruiting McDonald's All Americans?

The best team doesn't always win, i.e., N. Texas.
 
Pretty much in this conference on any given day any team can lose. As far as the best team goes, that's a matter of opinion. If you base it on the numbers then of course it's us........Sic'em!!
 
Pretty much in this conference on any given day any team can lose. As far as the best team goes, that's a matter of opinion. If you base it on the numbers then of course it's us........Sic'em!!

Are you referring to the number of times being put on probation? Yes I guess if that is the number your are talking about Baylor is way out front. :)
 
I also should correct myself- I found that Niya Johnson was the 43rd ranked player but was a McDs all-American. So- it's fair to say McDonalds All-American team is a much better evaluator than the various media outlets. They still don't get everyone right- but they definitely don't get everyone wrong ethier. I think we got two diamonds in the rough out of Gioya and Maddie, I think the next two years if Maddie stays we will have a shot at going deep. Hopefully we can get a few more athletes plugged in during that time.
The media outlets are the ones who vote...so at the end of the day they got it right with Johnson
 
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