I love it...the left and the right calling each other "hypocrites". I've never been so glad to not be affiliated with either party. My memory of presidents goes back to the Nixon years and I'll confess to liking very few of them. The last one I had any use for was Ronald Reagan, only because he worked so well with Tip O'Neill and Congress. He was the last President we who truly "united" the country; at least in my eyes. Both Trump and Obama have easily been the two biggest DIVIDERS in my lifetime. I couldn't even guess as to who #3 would be in the divider category since #1 and #1A are so far out in front of the pack. I'm beginning to wonder if we'll ever have another good President in my lifetime.
Can you guys explain some Trump things to me?
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thebigabd
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We will if I win in 2024 or 2028
stormspencer
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I'm with ya brother. Although I lean right (constitutional libertarian), I can't think of one elected official in DC that I align with.....even 85% of the time.
Reagan may have not been the first to coin the phrase "you're not 50% my enemy....you're 50% my friend" when creating policy, but he certainly seemed to have the gift of accommodation and concession, yet would still "win" more than his share politically. Unfortunately, we will never see anyone like him again in our lifetime.
thebigabd
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Storm,
Just curious... but would you say your views line up with the content on the official libertarian party website? The reason I ask that question is some friends of mine who are libertarian, and some of them reviewed the site and said yes, it aligns with their world-view, others have said partially. A few of my libertarian friends basically track their world-view back to Ayn Rand, so you can imagine the heated discussions I have with them!
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Sooner04
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It's been aggravating watching some try and tear down Reagan's legacy over the years. The man took 49 of 50 states in his re-election campaign of 1984. The lone holdout was Minnesota.
Was Dutch perfect? No. But what do you want in a President? Jimmy Carter might be the nicest, most caring man to ever hold the office and we ran him out of town on a rail.
Unite. Work across the aisle. Build bridges. That's what I want from my President. I don't subscribe to Obama being a divider (maybe he was....didn't feel like it to me) but Trump is just off the charts. I've never seen a thinner-skinned politician.
Was Dutch perfect? No. But what do you want in a President? Jimmy Carter might be the nicest, most caring man to ever hold the office and we ran him out of town on a rail.
Unite. Work across the aisle. Build bridges. That's what I want from my President. I don't subscribe to Obama being a divider (maybe he was....didn't feel like it to me) but Trump is just off the charts. I've never seen a thinner-skinned politician.
stormspencer
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I consider myself a consitutionalist/originalist first and a libertarian second. That is why I label it that way. I believe in the original founding document and also believe that its authors were borderline genius in the way they constructed it. They were forming a country to get away from an oppressive, tyrannical situation. And they strategically designed a balance of power into three branches so that one branch could be "kept in check" by the other two. They knew this process would also create gridlock and that gov't expansion would be slow and incremental (or at least that was their intention). They also recognized the invaluable nature of individual rights and what it's like to get those rights trampled.....they lived it.
The Libertarian website states many principles that I agree with.....by and large (self ownership, privacy, etc.), but some stances I disagree with. TLP wants to abolish the death penalty (I don't). They also want to repeal laws that criminalize "victimless crimes" like recreational drug use. The only problem with that is, in many instances, drug use isn't a victimless crime when the addict is engaging in criminal behavior (theft, etc.) in order to procure money to buy their drugs. TLP is a little too "black/white" on some things that obviously need more context.
I guess I agree with the Milton Freidman's view of Rand...."an utterly intolerant and dogmatic person who did a great deal of good". By and large, I'm for less government in most situations......"the bigger the government, the smaller the individual". I also depart from some libertarians on foreign policy because this country does have interests globally that we need to protect. I'm not an isolationist (Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, Ross Perot), but I do understand that worldview and why they are sympathetic to it.
But I also understand the importance of some government, for example a safety net (to varying degrees) for society's most vulnerable (elderly, disabled, lower income children, etc.).
As far as websites, I do read some things on Cato, but for the most part, I view an issue and make up my own mind.
sheepdogs1
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With respect to the board liberals you are on your own. They could not do as you practice and preach.
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I agree with about 90% of what u said. Obama was very much a divider...he just went about it more quietly or ‘Passive-aggressively” than Trump. As someone about as close to the political center as I am, I have actually found many positive attributes about both presidents, but being anything close to a “uniter” is not one of them.
stormspencer
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For the most part, I don't align with any political party as you go down the list of issues per se....and I damn sure don't take my cues from a party's talking points. I see identity politics as maybe the biggest evil that needs to be exorcised in our culture because it is destroying a segment of our nation's ability to think for themselves.....as individuals.
Sooner04
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I'm in the middle as well. I voted for Obama the first time, not the second. I heard such vitriolic things about him from Day 1 I guess I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I miss his leadership. He seemed steady. I wish Trump would put the phone away and turn off his television.
sheepdogs1
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100% Identity politics are for the weak of mind and those without true and meaningful answers. All it accomplishes is the building of walls between the segments of society which are people. Democrats will proclaim that wall building has no place in society yet their middle name is "Acme." I feel "promises made are to be promises kept"
WTSooner
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That's because he isn't a career politician. He's thinned skinned either way, but it's related to his business dealings.
sheepdogs1
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Some people equate skin thickness with success or achievements. There really is no correlation between the two. Some people are thick skinned towards certain things yet thin skinned towards other elements of life.
thebigabd
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Defend it, people.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1274748265376907265
https://twitter.com/i/status/1276146084281229313
https://twitter.com/i/status/1276247942647574528
https://twitter.com/i/status/1275952697607221248
Whatever spell Trump has cast over people is lifting..... Pieces are starting to fall. It was HYSTERICAL on Fox the other night, when Hannity asked him point blank about Biden and Cuban throws in his support for Biden.
Carly Fiorina, who was a GOP candidate, now supporting Biden. More and more conservatives are coming out against these lunatic.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1274748265376907265
https://twitter.com/i/status/1276146084281229313
https://twitter.com/i/status/1276247942647574528
https://twitter.com/i/status/1275952697607221248
Whatever spell Trump has cast over people is lifting..... Pieces are starting to fall. It was HYSTERICAL on Fox the other night, when Hannity asked him point blank about Biden and Cuban throws in his support for Biden.
Carly Fiorina, who was a GOP candidate, now supporting Biden. More and more conservatives are coming out against these lunatic.
thebigabd
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Hannity Question: "What are your top priority items for a second term?"
Trumps answer: "Well one of the things that will be really great; you know, the word experience is still good. I always say that talent is more important than experience. I've always said that. But the word experience is a very important word. It's a very important meaning. I never did this before, I never slept over in Washington. I was in Washington I think 17 times, all of a sudden I'm President of the United States, you know the story, I am riding down Pennsylvania Avenue with our First Lady and I say, "this is great". But I didn't know very many people in Washington, it wasn't my thing. I was from Manhattan, from New York. Now I know everybody. And I have great people in the administration. You make some mistakes, like you know an idiot like Bolton, all he wanted to do is drop bombs on everybody. You don't have to drop bombs on everybody. You don't have to kill people"
End of answer.
The country is a total ****-show right now... The economy is messed up. Coronavirus is now a huge issue again. Texas is starting to shut back down... Nearly 130,000 people are dead... We are basically in a new Cold War with China (of our own making)... Companies are going out of business... Unemployment money runs out in August... Police brutality, racial divisions, protests, etc are on the front-burner.
And he talks about himself not having been to DC much, and complaining about John Bolton, when asked what he plans to do with a potential second term. Just complete non-nonsensical word salad, which is his specialty.
Trumps answer: "Well one of the things that will be really great; you know, the word experience is still good. I always say that talent is more important than experience. I've always said that. But the word experience is a very important word. It's a very important meaning. I never did this before, I never slept over in Washington. I was in Washington I think 17 times, all of a sudden I'm President of the United States, you know the story, I am riding down Pennsylvania Avenue with our First Lady and I say, "this is great". But I didn't know very many people in Washington, it wasn't my thing. I was from Manhattan, from New York. Now I know everybody. And I have great people in the administration. You make some mistakes, like you know an idiot like Bolton, all he wanted to do is drop bombs on everybody. You don't have to drop bombs on everybody. You don't have to kill people"
End of answer.
The country is a total ****-show right now... The economy is messed up. Coronavirus is now a huge issue again. Texas is starting to shut back down... Nearly 130,000 people are dead... We are basically in a new Cold War with China (of our own making)... Companies are going out of business... Unemployment money runs out in August... Police brutality, racial divisions, protests, etc are on the front-burner.
And he talks about himself not having been to DC much, and complaining about John Bolton, when asked what he plans to do with a potential second term. Just complete non-nonsensical word salad, which is his specialty.
MsProudSooner
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Absolutely!
We need to do a better job of teaching our kids the difference between selfishness and independence. Too many people seem to think they are interchangeable.
Not a Trump supporter by any stretch, but criticizing an elderly person for gait instability seems like something Trump would do. And something the liberals would flock to social media to express their outrage about (often rightfully so).
thebigabd
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Remember when he called it the China Virus.....
People were like, "man, I am pretty sure he says that to blame China, or in a racist way"..
Trumpers were like.... "no! That's ridiculous. It's just an accurate way to describe the virus. It's a virus, it's from China"
Then Trump starts calling it the "Kung Flu"
And people were like, "ok..... China Virus has now turned into the Kung Flu... Can we now agree he's using it with ill intent and in a way that is offensive? Seems pretty obvious at this point"
Trumpers then are like, "OMG, who cares what he calls it! It's a virus, who cares what someone calls it!"
People were like, "man, I am pretty sure he says that to blame China, or in a racist way"..
Trumpers were like.... "no! That's ridiculous. It's just an accurate way to describe the virus. It's a virus, it's from China"
Then Trump starts calling it the "Kung Flu"
And people were like, "ok..... China Virus has now turned into the Kung Flu... Can we now agree he's using it with ill intent and in a way that is offensive? Seems pretty obvious at this point"
Trumpers then are like, "OMG, who cares what he calls it! It's a virus, who cares what someone calls it!"
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