Capel has signed 8 players who didnt play more than 2 seasons

[SoonerfanTU]

Correction: A kid that Sampson injured. I know Bookout extremely well and Alex Brown and the team doctor all told Sampson and Bookout that playing would injury his shoulder. They knew he wouldn't be able to finish the season. Sampson begged Bookout to play claiming that if we got out to a 10 or 12 win start with him then having Bookout sit until the tournament, we would get a top seed. Bookout then could come back and play in the NCAA tournament. Bookout will tell you that he should have never listened to Sampson. If he redshirted like he wanted to, he might never have done the extensive damage to his shoulder.

That isn't the story that Bookout PUBLICALLY tells about that situation. Sampson left it up to Bookout. Bookout WANTED to play, like most any athlete would. And I've never seen a single report say that sitting out that first season he got hurt, or having immediate surgery, would have prevented his shoulder issues in future years. It wasn't as if playing through the pain worsened his injury.

 

[Sam]

Soonerfantu how do we know McG78 is lying?
There is a good chance he could know Bookout and we all know athletes in general (with some headcases as exceptions) will say the right thing in public but when they are given a chance to confide to a friend or family member the real story could be very different.

 

[CrimsonOberon]

That isn't the story that Bookout PUBLICALLY tells about that situation. Sampson left it up to Bookout. Bookout WANTED to play, like most any athlete would. And I've never seen a single report say that sitting out that first season he got hurt, or having immediate surgery, would have prevented his shoulder issues in future years. It wasn't as if playing through the pain worsened his injury.

Nobody tells the story publically, it's not politically correct. Still, to deify or condemn anyone is difficult to do when all the facts are not presented for all to see. I respect the legacy Kelvin had at OU, even if I may not respect the man he turned out to be.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Soonerfantu how do we know McG78 is lying?
There is a good chance he could know Bookout and we all know athletes in general (with some headcases as exceptions) will say the right thing in public but when they are given a chance to confide to a friend or family member the real story could be very different.

Because Bookout and Kelvin still talk? Because Bookout STILL says good things about Kelvin?

And most importantly, b/c it doesn't matter. At MOST, you could argue that Kelvin cost Bookout a year of eligibility. But playing through the injury did not, in any way, hurt Bookout's chances at recovery. Not at all. So the fact that Bookout never really got over the injury, and the fact that he missed so much conditioning b/c of it, had nothing to do with playing that year.

 

[FaithfulSooner]

Ere wasn't a role player to me. Jason Detrick was okay, but nothing spectacular. You're very good at pointing out what you think are Coach Capel's short comings, but it seems like you never have many comments when Coach is doing well. I'm really not trying to start anything with you. I just wonder what the reasoning is for that. I will tell you this. The program is better than what it used to be when coach ______ was here. The mess has been cleaned up. The program is going in a very positive direction. Can we move on. Coach ________ is gone and never coming back. Please except this. BOOMER SOONER BABY!!!

 

[SoonerfanTU]

You're very good at pointing out what you think are Coach Capel's short comings, but it seems like you never have many comments when Coach is doing well.

RIGHT!!!!!

The only semi-critical thing I've said about Capel since the end of the season is what I just said yesterday, that the role playes he has recruited haven't been very good. That is it.

And Ere was a role player, especially his junior year. When you are the 3rd/4th best player on a team, you are a role player.

 

[thebigabd]

Ebi Ere, Jason Detrick, Mike Neal, Johnny Gilbert, Lawrence Mckenzie, Jaison Williams, Szendrei, Selvy, Newton, Heskett were all Sampson "later years" role players.. They werent the feature guys, and were therefore role players.

Sampson did as good a job as anyone in the country as finding high quality support players, mostly out of the juco ranks... His philosophy (and he talked about this all the time) was to have 2-3 really good players, and surround them with experienced and talented role players.

Most of the jucos he brought in were in this type of role. The ones that were not were Nate Erdmann, Aaron Mcghee, Corey Brewer, Terrell Everett, Nolan Johnson, and Taj Gray.

 

[BigTime]

Ebi Ere, Jason Detrick, Mike Neal, Johnny Gilbert, Lawrence Mckenzie, Jaison Williams, Szendrei, Selvy, Newton, Heskett were all Sampson "later years" role players.. They werent the feature guys, and were therefore role players.

Sampson did as good a job as anyone in the country as finding high quality support players, mostly out of the juco ranks... His philosophy (and he talked about this all the time) was to have 2-3 really good players, and surround them with experienced and talented role players.
Most of the jucos he brought in were in this type of role. The ones that were not were Nate Erdmann, Aaron Mcghee, Corey Brewer, Terrell Everett, Nolan Johnson, and Taj Gray.

That philosophy is used by nearly every coach in America. Coach Capel is doing the same thing. Some of you guys need to wait for Coach Capel's role players to become upperclassmen before you throw in that he can't get good role playing guys. He took some of Sampson's guys and made them great role players ( Taylor, Austin, Godbold,). He also has had some of his own (Omar, Crocker, Pattillo).

I expect Cade, Ray, Fitz, and Pledger to all be very good support players. Cade will be a junior next year. He will be the same age as a Sampson JUCO support player. Give him a chance.

 

[thebigabd]

That philosophy is used by nearly every coach in America.

I dont really agree with that... I threw the term "experienced" in there to show why Sampson recruited junior college players so heavily, because he knew they were older, more mature, and more experienced. I dont think nearly every coach in America has that philosophy.

Some of you guys need to wait for Coach Capel's role players to become upperclassmen before you throw in that he can't get good role playing guys.

Exactly the point of recruiting older, more experienced guys. You dont have to wait for them to grow up. Neal, Ere, Detrick, Selvy, Nolan, etc came in ready to play at a high level. Thats the point of the philosophy.

He also has had some of his own (Omar, Crocker, Pattillo).

Crocker is a very good role player, but he was also a Sampson guy. Pattillo would have been a great role player but im not sure his head is in the right place. Omar hit some huge shots last year and played really quality minutes, and Capel gets props for bringing in a nice role player.

I expect Cade, Ray, Fitz, and Pledger to all be very good support players.

I do too... im hoping Ray becomes more than that, but you never know. Pledger, Cade, and Fitz should be really good role players though.

 

[McG78]

That isn't the story that Bookout PUBLICALLY tells about that situation. Sampson left it up to Bookout. Bookout WANTED to play, like most any athlete would. And I've never seen a single report say that sitting out that first season he got hurt, or having immediate surgery, would have prevented his shoulder issues in future years. It wasn't as if playing through the pain worsened his injury.

It wasn't his first season. It was his second season. In a preseason game he tweeked an already tender shoulder. It got to the point he couldn't raise his arm over shoulder high. Also, do you really think a kid still going to OU is going to publicly cry foul?

 

[McG78]

Because Bookout and Kelvin still talk? Because Bookout STILL says good things about Kelvin?

And most importantly, b/c it doesn't matter. At MOST, you could argue that Kelvin cost Bookout a year of eligibility. But playing through the injury did not, in any way, hurt Bookout's chances at recovery. Not at all. So the fact that Bookout never really got over the injury, and the fact that he missed so much conditioning b/c of it, had nothing to do with playing that year.

He continually did damage to the shoulder girdle by not resting it and halfing it in a sling. Once you tear up your shoulder it is hard to recover. For instance, only way to correct a severely torn rotator cuff is to pin it to the shoulder and hope it doesn't come lose.

 

[NickZepp]

I posted a similar thread earlier this offseason I think, it's apart of college basketball. You can't complain about it now just like you can't complain about it when it was happening with Sampson.

 

[Cheno]

Weak comparison, clearly made by somebody that isn't an OU fan first and foremost.
Comparing a kid that ends up being the #1 pick in the draft to a kid that injured himself early in his career, and thus never got the chance to realize his potential.

Ahhh, another insult and backhanded slap by TU. Somethings will never change. Looks like it's happened to multiple posters in this thread. It was not a weak comparison. It was spot on. If you think Bookout being injured is what kept him from becoming an NBA player then that silly comment may trump your "Bill Self can't coach" theory.
Kevin Bookout was a very good player. He's a fantastic kid. I'd take 5 Kevin Bookouts on my team today....but he was never going to be an NBA player. He doesn't have the skill set. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was Bookouts shoulders that were what gave him fits. Healthy shoulders weren't going to increase his foot speed, quickness and hops. Bookout was a 4 year player all along. Blake Griffin was an early NBA entrant all along. And yes Blake went #1 overall but he wasn't anywhere near projected that out of high school. In fact I bet Blake and Bookout weren't separated by more than 20-25 spots in the rankings out of high school.

 

[FaithfulSooner]

It's so interesting when people don't read and comprehend the entire post. I said that Ebe Ere was not a role player to me. If you take him off that team. I don't think we have the success that we had. Also, Bigtime is right. The guys that some of you are speaking of haven't even graduated yet. All I know is that we are in on some of the top recruits in the country, Coach Capel is about to surpass the former coaches nba player total with less than five years at the coaching position, and we just went to the elite 8. Oh by the way. I think there was this one guy who was just drafted number one in the whole NBA draft. I think his name was Griffin or something. I guess those 8 players that the original author of this thread are talking about really have made a huge difference in our success. NOT! Keep watching guys and please join us in the present. He's not coming back. Sorry. BOOMER SOONER BABY!!!:clap

 

[Cheno]

Amen Faithful!!! Preach it to the choir!!! The time is today!!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICdXAmd1TWA[/ame]

 

[JDSooners]

I'm not ready to say Warren an Gallon will be here for less than 2 years.

But the 1 year then NBA , alters things a little bet

 

[SoonerfanTU]

I guess those 8 players that the original author of this thread are talking about really have made a huge difference in our success. NOT!

Feel free to look at it that way.

I look at it as we were a bench away from a Final Four, and maybe more. Our starters, or at least, our top 3-4 guys were plenty good enough. It was the "after that" that hurt us at times last year.

 

[FaithfulSooner]

Feel free to look at it that way if you like. However, no one is going to win shooting the way we did last year in the unc game. We just had a bad night. It wasn't the bench that lost the game. It was our whole overall shooting effort. I guess you were probably watching a different game. OU was predicted to go to the elite 8 and that's what we did. I'm very happy with the program, which the majority of Sooner fans are. We're right on schedule. Those 8 players aren't the difference. That dog just won't hunt. BOOMER SOONER BABY!!!:clap

 

[Cheno]

I'm not ready to say Warren an Gallon will be here for less than 2 years.

I'm absolutely positive Willie won't be here less than 2 years.

 

[Sid]

I threw the term "experienced" in there to show why Sampson recruited junior college players so heavily, because he knew they were older, more mature, and more experienced.

Kelvin recruited JC guys out of necessity. When it came to recruiting, it seemed like he was always in a crisis management mode. The recruiting of CW summed up the end of the Sampson era at Oklahoma. Talk about a desperate move. Unlike now, OU basketball under KS was not a household name around the AAU circuit. Unfortunately, Kelvin was the KING of the lunch pail circuit and in the end it came back to bite him (among OTHER things).

:kelvin