Capel has signed 8 players who didnt play more than 2 seasons

[campbest]

I don't agree with this. Why would he leave except for a top five program? If he can recruit top talent at Oklahoma (which he has) and his family likes it (which I assume they do because he hasn't left yet), why would he go?

If a top program (ACC or Big East) came calling with Calipari money, it would be tough for Capel to turn down. In the short run, it's a plausible situation. The longer he is at OU, I feel the more attached he will become with the program as his own.

This is the same mentality that most OU fans have, "OU isn't a basketball school that is worth staying at." Not many programs offer what OU has to offer. At the very least, OU offers financial stability with the amount of revenue the football program generates. We do have a pretty impressive winning tradition

Top basketball programs offer financial stability too, whether they are independent of football or not. I agree that some fans still have the mindset you mentioned, but I have heard it less and less since Capel arrived.

Also, don't give me, "To be closer to his family." One, pretty soon his Dad is going to be done with coaching and can move where ever. Two, during the season and the summer, Capel is either too busy or required to travel (AAU tournaments) so he is not home anyways. Three, when you are making 2 million a year, I think you can spring for first class ticket about anywhere you need to be.

1.) If Jeff's father and extended family wants to remain in North Carolina after his NBA coaching career is finished, then Jeff has every right to want to be closer to his family if that is important to him. You and I have no say in the matter.

2.) Agreed, but during the season it would make seeing your family more accomodable if he lived on the east coast. Plus, besides the GASO, most of the premier tournaments/camps are not in the middle third of the United States, which equals shorter travel time.

3.) Agreed, but I don't think money is the issue...just depends how accomodating the set up is.


Bottom line, yes, of course he could leave for a top 5 program...that was what I was referencing too. Only a program with that stature is going to be able to lure away a figure who continually pulls in 1-2 MDAA's a year.

 

[CrimsonOberon]

Duke is the really the only school I am really really worried about Capel leaving for.

Same here. I don't believe Coach is just waiting for the first opportunity to jump ship. I agree with Sid, OU basketball fans seem to have a pretty big inferiority complex about the level of our program. This is not Stepping Stone U; luckily, our bball coach believes in that philosophy.

Guys like Willie want to show people that once the previous star is gone, hey, he can lead them even higher. Guys like that are the types that win championships, and Coach C is bringing them in more consistently than any other coach we've had in our history. That's why I believe Capel can recruit so many elite guys here: because he believes that a player that attends OU will have the opportunity to play for championships, be seen on tv playing the best opponents, will have a chance to be a key cog - or if they choose to stay after the previous star leaves - the main man, etc.

Our coach doesn't believe for a second that our school is unworthy of playing the recruiting game with the big boys. Part of changing the old attitude is having the bravado to step to the table and take a seat.

Our coach believes it; it's kind of sad we're all still doubtful.

 

[AdaSooner]

Same here. I don't believe Coach is just waiting for the first opportunity to jump ship. I agree with Sid, OU basketball fans seem to have a pretty big inferiority complex about the level of our program. This is not Stepping Stone U; luckily, our bball coach believes in that philosophy.

Guys like Willie want to show people that once the previous star is gone, hey, he can lead them even higher. Guys like that are the types that win championships, and Coach C is bringing them in more consistently than any other coach we've had in our history. That's why I believe Capel can recruit so many elite guys here: because he believes that a player that attends OU will have the opportunity to play for championships, be seen on tv playing the best opponents, will have a chance to be a key cog - or if they choose to stay after the previous star leaves - the main man, etc.

Our coach doesn't believe for a second that our school is unworthy of playing the recruiting game with the big boys. Part of changing the old attitude is having the bravado to step to the table and take a seat.

Our coach believes it; it's kind of sad we're all still doubtful.

Not all of us, CO.

I agree with the rest of a very nice post!

 

[McG78]

Bottom line, yes, of course he could leave for a top 5 program...that was what I was referencing too. Only a program with that stature is going to be able to lure away a figure who continually pulls in 1-2 MDAA's a year.

My post wasn't meant to be an indictment on you. More of an indictment on the Oklahoma media and the general football fan (which seem to be pretty prevalent this time of the year). I'm just tired of hearing Capel is going to South Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, etc. It is just a bunch of speculation and lies trying to make a story.

On that note, Dean Blevins's reliable sources seem to be the worst at spreading this misinformation. I've come to believe that Dean just says the outrageous thing with no support. If he is right, he looks like a genius. If he is wrong, he either ignores it or says something like, "That was a last minute change and the 5% I was talking about when I said my sources that it was a 95% done deal."

While we are talking about Blevins, I lost all respect for him when he publicly said, "I didn't vote for Roy Williams to win the Heisman because I voted for Josh Heupel the previous year and didn't want to look like a homer even though I though Roy was the best player." Vote what you believe Dean, not in some self-serving way so you don't risk losing your precious Heisman vote that you think some how connects you to Kirk H.

 

[Cheno]

I'm just glad we are having this conversation on how great recruiting has become. Lots of good stuff in this thread.

 

[Sid]

I agree that some fans still have the mindset you mentioned, but I have heard it less and less since Capel arrived.

Yes. It's a tough task but I think Jeff is starting to create some true believers out here.

Our coach doesn't believe for a second that our school is unworthy of playing the recruiting game with the big boys. Part of changing the old attitude is having the bravado to step to the table and take a seat.

Our coach believes it; it's kind of sad we're all still doubtful.

:clap Please do not lump myself, Cheno, FF, BT, Norm and Ada into the doubtful category.

Not all of us, CO.

I'm glad to see that you're finally coming around. What took you so long?

 

[AdaSooner]

I'm glad to see that you're finally coming around. What took you so long?

If "finally coming around" means I bought into what Capel was selling the day he arrived, I'm guilty as charged.

 

[shytnik]

It is already coming true at Oklahoma.
Blake brought in Willie.
Willie and Blake brought in TMG and Tiny.
I expect this trend to continue here.

This is very true. Good players want to play with other good players and they want a chance to win a NC while they are there, which kinda goes hand in hand. This is how you build a program. If you get one or two of these kind of guys every year, the remaining can be long term players and still build the program. NC, KU and Duke didn't get to where they were not recruiting MCDAA. Eventually you start brining in guys that are to that level and the guys that just missed the title and they become the role player for a year or two, then get their shot at being the star. So eventually, the guys that are talented enough to make the NBA come to the program and stay 3 or 4.

I want players to stay longer, but it's hard to argue with the kind of money they can get for moving on when talented enough to do so, and I certainly don't want to recruit less talented players. That being said there are only 64 players drafter every year and more and more internationals are getting drafted. Many of these guys want to be one and done but need to stay longer. Tiny will be great, but I think he will understand by the end of this year he needs to stay more than one. If we have two guys every year that leave after two seasons and contribute to the level Blake did, Willie is and Tiny likely will, I'm good with it.

 

[Cheno]

This is very true. Good players want to play with other good players and they want a chance to win a NC while they are there, which kinda goes hand in hand. This is how you build a program.

Totally agree. I just laugh when someone says this team won't get a great player because they already have a great player. 9 times out of 10 that is BS and the 10th time you don't want that kid because he's all about himself.
Great players want to play with other great players. Great players want to win championships.

And another thing I'd rather have a great MCDAA for two years than a solid guy for 4 years. Nothing against Kevin Bookout, I love the kid, and this is purely an example but I'll take Blake for two years everyday over a Bookout given the choice.

 

[Sid]

I'll take Blake for two years everyday over a Bookout given the choice.

Absolutely!

 

[DenverSooner]

Re: Capel has signed 9 players who didnt play more than 2 seasons

Whats wrong with the court results in Norman? Capel has improved OU's record every year and continues to add MAA's which will most likely lead to more success on the court.

If Losing Bobby Maze and Tony Neysmith had put us in the NIT last year I could understand that its a problem. But we just had one of the best seasons in OU basketball history and are about to have another good one.

Technically this is not true. Capel's first year was not an improvement and his second year was good but not great. I think Capel has done a great job but I also think it is a bit misleading to say he has improved the record every year when unfortunately (and regardless if all or even any of the blame is attributable to Capel) his first year was simply a low point in OU basketball over the last 20+ years. (This is not an insult of Capel. He is my favorite college basketball coach and doing a great job)

As far as losing Cannon, Early, Maze, Clark and Pattillo, I say good job Jeff Capel. All of them had attitude problems or grad issues (Clark). If a young coach does not make it crystal clear he will not put up with attitude issues, he is risking getting run over. I admire Coach Capel for being a strong leader. Being a motivating and posititive while maintaining discipline as a boss or leader is a hard skill to acquire and Coach Capel seems to be mastering it at a young age. I am almost 10 years older than Coach Capel and I think he is way ahead of me with this skill. It is a delicate balance and so far he really seems to do it well.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Totally agree. I just laugh when someone says this team won't get a great player because they already have a great player. 9 times out of 10 that is BS and the 10th time you don't want that kid because he's all about himself.
Great players want to play with other great players. Great players want to win championships.

And another thing I'd rather have a great MCDAA for two years than a solid guy for 4 years. Nothing against Kevin Bookout, I love the kid, and this is purely an example but I'll take Blake for two years everyday over a Bookout given the choice.

I would too and I was a big Bookout fan.

 

[skyvue]

This notion of "good fans" and "bad fans" is divisive and ridiculous. And in any case, if anyone's thinking I'm a "doubter" about OU hoops, they really don't know me. People used to worry back in the day about Sampson leaving, and I posted repeatedly that he wasn't going anywhere, that OU was a great job. I still believe that -- always have. I've been standing up for OU's hoop program for years, in the face of Cleti and opposing fans (especially aggies) alike.

McDAA status is no guarantee of greatness at the D-1 level -- just look at Drew L. and Ryan H. And wasn't Bookout in the running for a spot in the McDAA game? I don't follow that stuff as closely as some here, but that's what I always understood from those more in the know than me.

A player like Hollis Price would probably be termed "lunch pail" these days in the eyes of some, but I'll take a player the likes of him any time we can sign one. And I'd certainly take such a player over almost anyone who is intent upon leaving Norman after a single season (though Norm makes a good point that many players talk a one-and-done game, but end up sticking around at the college level for two or more seasons).

Give me Blake AND Bookout; that's what I want. I'd be thrilled if we had the likes of Bookout on campus to fill in after Blake's departure and while Tiny, Fitz et al get their D-1 legs under them.

 

[Cheno]

Give me Blake AND Bookout; that's what I want. I'd be thrilled if we had the likes of Bookout on campus to fill in after Blake's departure and while Tiny, Fitz et al get their D-1 legs under them.

I totally agree. I would love to have both as well. I said given the choice. And Bookout would be the perfect role player now...it's when guys like that are thrown into the position where they have to be one of the main options is when you are in trouble. I think Fitz is a Bookout type player. And I'm 100% glad he's here...but with Tiny OU has the makings of a fantastic frontcourt...without Tiny where a guy like Fitz has to carry the load is when things turn south. I believe those days are over.

I've been around here a long time and anyone that questions Skyvue's loyalty to OU hoops, past or present, doesn't have a clue as to what they are talking about. Sky and I disagree on many things and have had words over the year but I'd never question his loyalties.

 

[Sid]

I'm just glad we are having this conversation on how great recruiting has become.

I'm with you. It's only going to get better.

It’s one of three late-July tournaments in Glitter City that attract college coaches from everywhere.

“It’s fun. Obviously you come to a tournament like this and the kids get a lot of exposure,” Goolsby said.

He mentioned the likes of Kansas University’s Bill Self, as well as Tubby Smith, Mike Krzyzewski, Ben Howland, Billy Donovan, Jeff Capel, Anthony Grant and Sean Miller as some of those college coaches scouting his teams, which are entered in the 15, 16 and 17 age-group divisions.

http://t.love.com/235564351

 

[elmocarp]

Good thread...

I think there are two different categories of players OU has lost under Capel and I think the distinction is important. A lot of this thread is talking about early-entries, but Blake is the only one who has gone pro. The other two being mentioned haven't even left yet (WW and Tiny). All of the other guys (except for Neysmith) have been knuckleheads and all of them have been marginally talented. Pattillo offered athleticism and Clark offered versatility, but none of them have been terribly significant losses. For all the talk about "one-and-dones," OU hasn't had any.

I think another thing to point out about Capel's recruiting is the way he has shepherded these "elite" players. Blake talks about him like he is a member of his family. Blake and Willie both passed on lottery money to come back and get better, something that just isn't particularly common. Capel isn't getting these guys to buy into OU as a jump-off to the pros, he is getting them to buy into maximizing their talents at OU before leaving. He is helping them see the bigger picture and setting them up for long-term success. Also, think about some of the drama that was around Willie when he was coming into the program. Now think about all of the chances this season for Willie to have become disenchanted or resentful. He never turned on Capel and he seems to be learning what it takes to be a leader.

I don't see OU having to deal with the same kind of issues that Georgia Tech dealt with a few years ago, or what Ohio State is dealing with now. Guys like Thaddeous Young, Javaris Crittendon, Daquan Cook, Kosta Koufos and B.J. Mullens used those schools as a means to an end, but they left prior to accomplishing anything, personally or for the program. I believe this is something that Capel doesn't want happening at OU, and aside from the one comment by Tiny about wanting to go pro, most of what you hear about his recruiting philosophy suggests that he lets these guys know from the jump that the most important thing for them is maxing their talent at the level they are competing at prior to going to the next level.

Man, I had no idea this post would be so long...Sorry about that...I am proud that our coach is truly invested in the kids he recruits and that they seem to be invested in OU as well.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

And another thing I'd rather have a great MCDAA for two years than a solid guy for 4 years. Nothing against Kevin Bookout, I love the kid, and this is purely an example but I'll take Blake for two years everyday over a Bookout given the choice.

Weak comparison, clearly made by somebody that isn't an OU fan first and foremost.

Comparing a kid that ends up being the #1 pick in the draft to a kid that injured himself early in his career, and thus never got the chance to realize his potential.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

This notion of "good fans" and "bad fans" is divisive and ridiculous. And in any case, if anyone's thinking I'm a "doubter" about OU hoops, they really don't know me. People used to worry back in the day about Sampson leaving, and I posted repeatedly that he wasn't going anywhere, that OU was a great job. I still believe that -- always have. I've been standing up for OU's hoop program for years, in the face of Cleti and opposing fans (especially aggies) alike.

McDAA status is no guarantee of greatness at the D-1 level -- just look at Drew L. and Ryan H. And wasn't Bookout in the running for a spot in the McDAA game? I don't follow that stuff as closely as some here, but that's what I always understood from those more in the know than me.

A player like Hollis Price would probably be termed "lunch pail" these days in the eyes of some, but I'll take a player the likes of him any time we can sign one. And I'd certainly take such a player over almost anyone who is intent upon leaving Norman after a single season (though Norm makes a good point that many players talk a one-and-done game, but end up sticking around at the college level for two or more seasons).

Give me Blake AND Bookout; that's what I want. I'd be thrilled if we had the likes of Bookout on campus to fill in after Blake's departure and while Tiny, Fitz et al get their D-1 legs under them.

Good post.

Capel has done an excellent job in recruiting his "studs". What he hasn't shown he can do is recruit the role players. The guys like Ere. Detrick. Bookout to some extent. Brown. Gilbert. And the list goes on. Maybe that turns around some this year, maybe it doesn't. We all know that our McD's AA's are going to be good. It's what we get out of kids like Cade Davis, and Ray Willis, and Allen that will be the difference. Guys like Fitz, and Pledger, and Wright. THOSE are the guys that need to be better in order for OU to truly step up and be a legit Final Four team each year. The top end talent is there.

 

[McG78]

Weak comparison, clearly made by somebody that isn't an OU fan first and foremost.

Comparing a kid that ends up being the #1 pick in the draft to a kid that injured himself early in his career, and thus never got the chance to realize his potential.

Correction: A kid that Sampson injured. I know Bookout extremely well and Alex Brown and the team doctor all told Sampson and Bookout that playing would injury his shoulder. They knew he wouldn't be able to finish the season. Sampson begged Bookout to play claiming that if we got out to a 10 or 12 win start with him then having Bookout sit until the tournament, we would get a top seed. Bookout then could come back and play in the NCAA tournament. Bookout will tell you that he should have never listened to Sampson. If he redshirted like he wanted to, he might never have done the extensive damage to his shoulder.

 

[McG78]

Good thread...

I think there are two different categories of players OU has lost under Capel and I think the distinction is important. A lot of this thread is talking about early-entries, but Blake is the only one who has gone pro. The other two being mentioned haven't even left yet (WW and Tiny). All of the other guys (except for Neysmith) have been knuckleheads and all of them have been marginally talented. Pattillo offered athleticism and Clark offered versatility, but none of them have been terribly significant losses. For all the talk about "one-and-dones," OU hasn't had any.

I think another thing to point out about Capel's recruiting is the way he has shepherded these "elite" players. Blake talks about him like he is a member of his family. Blake and Willie both passed on lottery money to come back and get better, something that just isn't particularly common. Capel isn't getting these guys to buy into OU as a jump-off to the pros, he is getting them to buy into maximizing their talents at OU before leaving. He is helping them see the bigger picture and setting them up for long-term success. Also, think about some of the drama that was around Willie when he was coming into the program. Now think about all of the chances this season for Willie to have become disenchanted or resentful. He never turned on Capel and he seems to be learning what it takes to be a leader.

I don't see OU having to deal with the same kind of issues that Georgia Tech dealt with a few years ago, or what Ohio State is dealing with now. Guys like Thaddeous Young, Javaris Crittendon, Daquan Cook, Kosta Koufos and B.J. Mullens used those schools as a means to an end, but they left prior to accomplishing anything, personally or for the program. I believe this is something that Capel doesn't want happening at OU, and aside from the one comment by Tiny about wanting to go pro, most of what you hear about his recruiting philosophy suggests that he lets these guys know from the jump that the most important thing for them is maxing their talent at the level they are competing at prior to going to the next level.

Man, I had no idea this post would be so long...Sorry about that...I am proud that our coach is truly invested in the kids he recruits and that they seem to be invested in OU as well.

Agree with the post except for the B.J. Mullens part. B.J. Mullens grew up in and out of foster care. While in college, he had zero spending money and no support system to provide for him. He is the definition of dirt poor. He made the right decision by going pro because he couldn't survive another year of college or risk getting injured.