Football question

[Eielson]

Imagine mocking OU for only having 10 wins in 2 of the last 3 seasons, while in the same breath yearning for Lincoln Riley, who has a 0 10 win seasons during that time.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

0 % a judge stops a non employees from playing somewhere else ..

and money is what the "punishment" would be ..

Not sure why you are always stuck on the employees part.
Contracts aren't always employee based.

I agree though, it should be what is owed but it should be worth more than that NIL package was due to the damages from leaving this late in the portal period

 

[WichitaSooner]

Imagine mocking OU for only having 10 wins in 2 of the last 3 seasons, while in the same breath yearning for Lincoln Riley, who has a 0 10 win seasons during that time.

Imagine thinking that a poster who has repeatedly said that Riley isn't a great head coach is yearning for him. And imagine being so simple minded that you think that someone who is skeptical of Brent automatically likes Riley.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Not sure why you are always stuck on the employees part.
Contracts aren't always employee based.

I agree though, it should be what is owed but it should be worth more than that NIL package was due to the damages from leaving this late in the portal period

damages are hard to figure .. becasue we don't know who duke will get and what their record will be ..

and don't feel too bad for duke they tampered with him when he was at tulane before the portal opened to get him in the first place ..

 

[TopherB560]

Seeing the final AP poll, we ended up 13. Bama (9) and Michigan (21) are our only ranked wins. We lost to Ole Miss (3), Bama (9), and Texas (12). Tennessee and Mizzou only received a handful of votes.

I think one of the most important jobs of organizations and programs at the end of every season is to accurately assess where they stand. We had plenty of feel-good moments this season. The comeback at Tennessee after a terrible start to the game. Beating Michigan in prime time. Beating Auburn in a game that got a lot of attention because (a) Jackson Arnold and (b) people wrongly thought Auburn was good at the time. But when you actually look at the season, you have to also realize that we lost three of the four toughest games we played. We ended up with a much easier schedule than expected. And our final result (13th in the nation, with three losses) is not something that would have fired any of us up at any point in this century, if not for how bad the past three seasons had been.

Much progress from last year, to be sure. Much, much more to make before I feel like we are a real threat to win a national title. And on a related note, the first "way too early top 25" I read has us 9th, but specifically said that our run game remains a concern.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for being negative, but like I said, it was a major step in the right direction. The defense was better than I expected, special teams improved, and I thought Brent had fewer game management issues. I think the offense was only marginally better, and it worries me that our running back room is still a weakness and we have the same QB who played an entire season with bad vision and bad mechanics. If that makes me negative, so be it. But simply assuming continued progress is dangerous. People thought that two years ago and then 10-3 reverted back to 6-7. Next year is huge -- need to keep the upward trajectory and not slide back.

So with your running back room comment, I get it. X and Tory got hurt early and played hurt a majority of the season. Avant isn't coming in to be the guy, but he is better depth. I have watched Jonathan Hatton play and he looks the part of being a special player for OU as a true freshman next season. He's going to get a lot of work in the spring with X and Tory both recovering.

 

[WichitaSooner]

So with your running back room comment, I get it. X and Tory got hurt early and played hurt a majority of the season. Avant isn't coming in to be the guy, but he is better depth. I have watched Jonathan Hatton play and he looks the part of being a special player for OU as a true freshman next season. He's going to get a lot of work in the spring with X and Tory both recovering.

I’ll never count on a freshman being an impact skill player in our offense with these coaches. Blaylock is as close as we’ve come and his numbers were miserable. X didn’t play till November his first year. And if anything, the lack of spring work for the two returning guys is a huge cause for concern. We’ve been down that road before and ended up with a below average guy like Barnes starting the opener because of it.

 

[Eielson]

I’ll never count on a freshman being an impact skill player in our offense with these coaches.

I guess the data I spoonfed you a few pages back showing that a freshman is typically RB3 or higher was too complex for you. I really thought that since I didn't use numbers bigger than 3 and avoided any formulas or advanced statistics that you had a chance.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I guess the data I spoonfed you a few pages back showing that a freshman is typically RB3 or higher was too complex for you. I really thought that since I didn't use numbers bigger than 3 and avoided any formulas or advanced statistics that you had a chance.

I don’t value data from fools.

 

[hoopsaustin]

the judge already ruled against the duke requested TRO there is 0 chance he is forced to stay at Duke or play for duke .. he is not an employee after all ..

he can lose money that is all ..

I am shocked that the TRO wasn't granted. That said, it was ex parte and this judge might be soft. Now its set for TI/PI hearing February 2. Mensah's attys will appear at this hearing. Duke has a high burden and courts are sometimes soft as to the individual vs the company and the tiny violin that follows the poor measly sympathetic individual. Mensah should be held to account but of course I don't have the language of his contact but I cannot imagine that it's not killer to Mensah's goal of leaving.

It is not a 0% chance. I'd say its 40/60. Just depends on the draw of the judge

 

[BoulderSooner]

I am shocked that the TRO wasn't granted. That said, it was ex parte and this judge might be soft. Now its set for TI/PI hearing February 2. Mensah's attys will appear at this hearing. Duke has a high burden and courts are sometimes soft as to the individual vs the company and the tiny violin that follows the poor measly sympathetic individual. Mensah should be held to account but of course I don't have the language of his contact but I cannot imagine that it's not killer to Mensah's goal of leaving.

It is not a 0% chance. I'd say its 40/60. Just depends on the draw of the judge

shocked ?? what .. no judge will stop a student from changing colleges .. EVER .. the was 0% the TRO was going to be granted ..

the school want to treat players as employees while refusing to treat them as employees (or call them employees ) by rule these are NOT pay for play contracts .

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I guess the data I spoonfed you a few pages back showing that a freshman is typically RB3 or higher was too complex for you. I really thought that since I didn't use numbers bigger than 3 and avoided any formulas or advanced statistics that you had a chance.

There is a difference in need and ideal.
Even though those freshmen were RB3 or higher, that doesn't mean it is good to rely on them as RB3 or higher. They are often that high be happpenstance,

 

[SoonerBounce13]

the school want to treat players as employees while refusing to treat them as employees (or call them employees ) .

what are you even talking about?

 

[Eielson]

There is a difference in need and ideal.
Even though those freshmen were RB3 or higher, that doesn't mean it is good to rely on them as RB3 or higher. They are often that high be happpenstance,

Make a list of quality backs for us that didn't contribute as freshman, outside of injury/suspension. It ain't gonna be a long list.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Make a list of quality backs for us that didn't contribute as freshman, outside of injury/suspension. It ain't gonna be a long list.

Define contribute. It is a very subjective thing.
And again, some of them had to play. That doesn't mean it was ideal.
Blaylock getting 400 yards is contributing techinically. But he wasn't anything more than average.
So you can throw any freshman out as a starter and no matter how bad they do, they are contributing.

I"m interested in what is best for the team though. And that is usually not relying on freshman to be contributors.

 

[mict085]

what are you even talking about?

There is a legal definition of employee vs contractor and how it’s defined has bearing on how both parties are treated by the law and what their responsibilities are to each other.

Under the current setup, it sure looks like players are employees but they aren’t defined that way yet under the law. Universities don’t want them defined as employees either because that changes their obligations to the players and opens up other problematic issues.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

There is a legal definition of employee vs contractor and how it’s defined has bearing on how both parties are treated by the law and what their responsibilities are to each other.

Under the current setup, it sure looks like players are employees but they aren’t defined that way yet under the law. Universities don’t want them defined as employees either because that changes their obligations to the players and opens up other problematic issues.

and?

Sometimes people like to try and make things to complex. there was a contract. Did he breach the contract? If so, what are the penalties?

 

[BoulderSooner]

and?

Sometimes people like to try and make things to complex. there was a contract. Did he breach the contract? If so, what are the penalties?

money .. thats it ...

 

[Eielson]

Define contribute. It is a very subjective thing.
And again, some of them had to play. That doesn't mean it was ideal.
Blaylock getting 400 yards is contributing techinically. But he wasn't anything more than average.
So you can throw any freshman out as a starter and no matter how bad they do, they are contributing.

I"m interested in what is best for the team though. And that is usually not relying on freshman to be contributors.

Just name every quality back you can think of over the last 20 years (Peterson, Murray, Sermon, Brooks, Mixon, Perine, Gray, etc) and I'll go back and show you how they contributed as freshmen. The only ones that didn't were people that were injured (Anderson) or weren't playing D1 football (Stevenson).

I spelled this out for everybody a few pages ago, and the fact that you and Wichita continue to pretend freshman RBs don't contribute shows why some posters here simply can't contribute to any form of intelligent conversation.

And yes, if a freshman like Hatton or Walker were to make all-SEC freshman team or run for 100 yards against a top 10 opponent, that is clear and obvious contribution.

 

[hoopsaustin]

shocked ?? what .. no judge will stop a student from changing colleges .. EVER .. the was 0% the TRO was going to be granted ..

the school want to treat players as employees while refusing to treat them as employees (or call them employees ) by rule these are NOT pay for play contracts .

It's not just changing colleges tho.. its changing colleges in violation of the K's language (it is almost a certainty that the contract has that language in it - but i have not read the K to be fair) in which mensah gave up his right to transfer.

It was not 0%, I promise you that. TROs and TI/PIs became a sort of a speciality area for me.

People get hung up on employee or not, but idk if that is ultimately relevant. Person signed K agreeing to restrict his transferring and collected money, now person is attempting to transfer...

 

[BoulderSooner]

It's not just changing colleges tho.. its changing colleges in violation of the K's language (it is almost a certainty that the contract has that language in it - but i have not read the K to be fair) in which mensah gave up his right to transfer.

It was not 0%, I promise you that. TROs and TI/PIs became a sort of a speciality area for me.

People get hung up on employee or not, but idk if that is ultimately relevant. Person signed K agreeing to restrict his transferring and collected money, now person is attempting to transfer...

now we have a source off .. one attorney says there was a TRO granted

and his attorney says there wasn't .. very strange ..

i mean he is not a slave .. right ? he is a student .. some courts don't force anyone to work for someone they don't want to .