Gillispie update from Chris Level

[jmizzy4ou]

Gibbs won more than half his conference games as OU head coach.

No so with Capel.

Not a good comparison at all.

:OUbball-logo:

Both were hired to come in after some " bad press " years. Both followed very successful coaches, and while both had some success, neither could " replace" the guy that they followed. Both were considered unproven coaches, but with alot of potential. Both seemed to be high character guys without alot of baggage, something needed at the time because of recent " scandal".

You can NOT see the similarities if you choose not to, I see numerous similarities. You can also point out the stats that support what you are saying.

 

[StatGeek]

Both were hired to come in after some " bad press " years. Both followed very successful coaches, and while both had some success, neither could " replace" the guy that they followed. Both were considered unproven coaches, but with alot of potential. Both seemed to be high character guys without alot of baggage, something needed at the time because of recent " scandal".

You can NOT see the similarities if you choose not to, I see numerous similarities. You can also point out the stats that support what you are saying. I would love to see why Blake would be a better comparison, besides the obvious physical similarities that many will ACT like they don't consider when discussing these matters. It is what it is......

The racism card on this issue is very weak. The reason some people compare him to Blake is because only Blake & Capel have "wrecked" the program(s). If Blake had Gibbs record & Gibbs had Blake's, then people would naturally compare Gibbs to Capel.

That being said you make some valid points about the similarities regarding the circumstances surrounding their time at OU.

As for the proof to back up the comparison; consider this:

Who coached OU football to its 3 worst seasons in the last 30?
Who coached OU basketball to its 3 worst seasons in the last 30?

Like you said though, you can only see what you choose to see.

 

[StatGeek]

Did Blake have any winning seasons?

I enjoy your responses.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

The racism card on this issue is very weak. The reason some people compare him to Blake is because only Blake & Capel have "wrecked" the program(s). If Blake had Gibbs record & Gibbs had Blake's, then people would naturally compare Gibbs to Capel.

That being said you make some valid points about the similarities regarding the circumstances surrounding their time at OU.

As for the proof to back up the comparison; consider this:

Who coached OU football to its 3 worst seasons in the last 30?
Who coached OU basketball to its 3 worst seasons in the last 30?

Like you said though, you can only see what you choose to see.

I actually appreciate your response, and I usually find your posts to be very high level, IMO. Any time that someone points out racial issues, it does not mean that person is crying racism. I never said it was racism, because it is something greater than racism, IMO. Its called IGNORANCE.


The same ignorance that makes people compare every good white basketball player to Larry Bird, when in fact his game may closely mirror Magic Johnson's. The same IGNORANCE that makes people call every black athlete a thug, if he listens to hip hop, or he has tatoos. The same IGNORANCE that makes some say Steve Nash is a " heady player, and a smart athlete", when the same play made by Chris Paul or Deron Williams makes them great athletes, or ballers....

You see StatGeek, people will always draw comparisons based on physical traits, demographics, etc.... I have yet to ever see anyone use Scnellenberger in any conversations. He was as big of a bafoon as Blake, yet its almost like he never was here. Bliss had some success, but was shown to be pretty shady when the covers were puled back at Baylor, yet I have never seen him referred to negative terms.

I actually saw a thread linked to this board where Blake/Taylor Griffin were referred to as thugs by another fanbase, based solely on their appearance I'm sure, as both were outstanding students, athletes, and reps of the Univ.

Of course one can say that Blake/JC have similar records in conference games, but to say JC has been similar to Blake is crazy, IMO. Remember Blake's interviews??? Remember his off the field activities, ie riding around listening to blaring music in his Tahoe with Spinner rims??? Heck I have heard Capel bashed on here because he listens to Jay-Z and hip hop. Well guess what, so did Mike Stoops, Venables, and other coaches!!!! Capel's off the court demeanor is nothing like Blakes, yet we read posters bashing him for listening to hip hop.

No, I truly don't think that racism causes most to compare the two. Its more of a familiarity complex, and it is easier to draw comparisons based on similarities, of which none are greater than color. There is alot of awesome research and reports written on this very subject online. A few reputable sociologists and psychologists have done awesome studies on the very trend.

One of the best that I have read was on the subject of "Thug" being the new N-word. Very informative reading....

 

[Max Power]

I actually appreciate your response, and I usually find your posts to be very high level, IMO. Any time that someone points out racial issues, it does not mean that person is crying racism. I never said it was racism, because it is something greater than racism, IMO. Its called IGNORANCE.


The same ignorance that makes people compare every good white basketball player to Larry Bird, when in fact his game may closely mirror Magic Johnson's. The same IGNORANCE that makes people call every black athlete a thug, if he listens to hip hop, or he has tatoos. The same IGNORANCE that makes some say Steve Nash is a " heady player, and a smart athlete", when the same play made by Chris Paul or Deron Williams makes them great athletes, or ballers....

You see StatGeek, people will always draw comparisons based on physical traits, demographics, etc.... I have yet to ever see anyone use Scnellenberger in any conversations. He was as big of a bafoon as Blake, yet its almost like he never was here. Bliss had some success, but was shown to be pretty shady when the covers were puled back at Baylor, yet I have never seen him referred to negative terms.

I actually saw a thread linked to this board where Blake/Taylor Griffin were referred to as thugs by another fanbase, based solely on their appearance I'm sure, as both were outstanding students, athletes, and reps of the Univ.

Of course one can say that Blake/JC have similar records in conference games, but to say JC has been similar to Blake is crazy, IMO. Remember Blake's interviews??? Remember his off the field activities, ie riding around listening to blaring music in his Tahoe with Spinner rims??? Heck I have heard Capel bashed on here because he listens to Jay-Z and hip hop. Well guess what, so did Mike Stoops, Venables, and other coaches!!!! Capel's off the court demeanor is nothing like Blakes, yet we read posters bashing him for listening to hip hop.

No, I truly don't think that racism causes most to compare the two. Its more of a familiarity complex, and it is easier to draw comparisons based on similarities, of which none are greater than color. There is alot of awesome research and reports written on this very subject online. A few reputable sociologists and psychologists have done awesome studies on the very trend.

One of the best that I have read was on the subject of "Thug" being the new N-word. Very informative reading....

Schnellenberger won a NC at Miami. He failed at OU due to the influences of Alcohol. That is a different set of circumstances than Capel. That is why the comparison is not made among other reasons. (people say Blake and Capel were very well liked by everyone, they just couldnt get the job done)

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Schnellenberger won a NC at Miami. He failed at OU due to the influences of Alcohol. That is a different set of circumstances than Capel. That is why the comparison is not made among other reasons. (people say Blake and Capel were very well liked by everyone, they just couldnt get the job done)

Definately wasn't comparing JC to Scnelly, just wondering why he and Bliss are not slammed harder when they both obviously had character issues, yet JC gets hammered pretty hard around for losing??

I have no problem with him being called to the rug for his won/loss record, but you gotta admit that it has gone beyond that lately, and the most common rip is that he is like Blake, when evidence doesn't support that, IMO.....

 

[WTSooner]

Wait, Mike Stoops and Venables listen to rap?

That would be surprising, and not because they are caucasion.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Wait, Mike Stoops and Venables listen to rap?

That would be surprising, and not because they are caucasion.

Haha.... Both said after one of Our Big 12 title game wins, that the players on their defense got to start listening to some hip hop during practices, meeting breaks, etc, and it grew on them....

 

[Max Power]

Definately wasn't comparing JC to Scnelly, just wondering why he and Bliss are not slammed harder when they both obviously had character issues, yet JC gets hammered pretty hard around for losing??

I have no problem with him being called to the rug for his won/loss record, but you gotta admit that it has gone beyond that lately, and the most common rip is that he is like Blake, when evidence doesn't support that, IMO.....

I agree with you on the Caple/Blake Comparisons and that some of the arguments are very weak. Like you I believe, I also give Caple Credit for the Elite 8. He coached the team, he signed Blake and Willie, and we went there. he did it. since then he has been terrible as a head coach, and that is why I want a change. 13-18 and 14-17 are the reasons why and that has nothing to do with John Blake, Kelvin Sampson, or anyone but Jeff Capel.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

I agree with you on the Caple/Blake Comparisons. Like you i believe, I also give Caple Credit for the Elite 8. He coached the team, he singed Blake and Willie, and we went there. he did it. since then he has been terrible as a head coach, and that is why I want a change. 13-18 and 14-17 are the reasons why and that has nothing to do with John Blake, Kelvin Sampson, or anyone but Jeff Capel.

My exact reason for posting what I did.... He should be judged on his own merits, and the Blake comparisons should be left alone. Heck, back in 04 when I 1st started posting on the old Insider board, I was scolded by Sybarite/Trav and a few other regulars because I used a Football comparison on the hoops board.:ez-roll::ez-roll: They told me to take it BACK to OF.:woot

For the record, I would like to see JC receive one more yr, but if he does not I will not be mad, and I will totally understand... Most of what I post is not because I solely support JC. I support whoever OUr coach is, until someone replaces him/her. I was one of the posters who believed that losing KS would be a terrible thing. I played hoops, so I always appreciate his teams' work ethic, heart, and hustle. Those are the areas that I fault JC for the most, and IMO this group was far less talented, yet they didn't quit.....

 

[StatGeek]

I actually appreciate your response, and I usually find your posts to be very high level, IMO. Any time that someone points out racial issues, it does not mean that person is crying racism. I never said it was racism, because it is something greater than racism, IMO. Its called IGNORANCE.

Fair enough, good point.

The same ignorance that makes people compare every good white basketball player to Larry Bird, when in fact his game may closely mirror Magic Johnson's. The same IGNORANCE that makes people call every black athlete a thug, if he listens to hip hop, or he has tatoos. The same IGNORANCE that makes some say Steve Nash is a " heady player, and a smart athlete", when the same play made by Chris Paul or Deron Williams makes them great athletes, or ballers....

Good examples

You see StatGeek, people will always draw comparisons based on physical traits, demographics, etc.... I have yet to ever see anyone use Scnellenberger in any conversations. He was as big of a bafoon as Blake, yet its almost like he never was here. Bliss had some success, but was shown to be pretty shady when the covers were puled back at Baylor, yet I have never seen him referred to negative terms.

I actually saw a thread linked to this board where Blake/Taylor Griffin were referred to as thugs by another fanbase, based solely on their appearance I'm sure, as both were outstanding students, athletes, and reps of the Univ.

Of course one can say that Blake/JC have similar records in conference games, but to say JC has been similar to Blake is crazy, IMO. Remember Blake's interviews??? Remember his off the field activities, ie riding around listening to blaring music in his Tahoe with Spinner rims??? Heck I have heard Capel bashed on here because he listens to Jay-Z and hip hop. Well guess what, so did Mike Stoops, Venables, and other coaches!!!! Capel's off the court demeanor is nothing like Blakes, yet we read posters bashing him for listening to hip hop.

No, I truly don't think that racism causes most to compare the two. Its more of a familiarity complex, and it is easier to draw comparisons based on similarities, of which none are greater than color. There is alot of awesome research and reports written on this very subject online. A few reputable sociologists and psychologists have done awesome studies on the very trend.

One of the best that I have read was on the subject of "Thug" being the new N-word. Very informative reading....

This is all true, but I cannot recall any OU supporters ever criticizing Capel for his appearance, demeanor, or the way he has represented the university. In fact he is almost universally respected in these areas. Now, I too have seen posts that mention Jay-Z, and those may hint at the under current you are referring to, but I remember them as jokes. If ESPN ran a story on Stoops' Backstreet Boy collection, I would imagine that we would see posts about that as well.

 

[Max Power]

My exact reason for posting what I did.... He should be judged on his own merits, and the Blake comparisons should be left alone. Heck, back in 04 when I 1st started posting on the old Insider board, I was scolded by Sybarite/Trav and a few other regulars because I used a Football comparison on the hoops board.:ez-roll::ez-roll: They told me to take it BACK to OF.:woot

For the record, I would like to see JC receive one more yr, but if he does not I will not be mad, and I will totally understand... Most of what I post is not because I solely support JC. I support whoever OUr coach is, until someone replaces him/her. I was one of the posters who believed that losing KS would be a terrible thing. I played hoops, so I always appreciate his teams' work ethic, heart, and hustle. Those are the areas that I fault JC for the most, and IMO this group was far less talented, yet they didn't quit.....

I understand some of the reason for this, And i would not go off the deep end if he was retained for one more shot. I also played hoops, and I love Kelvins teams.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Fair enough, good point.




Good examples



This is all true, but I cannot recall any OU supporters ever criticizing Capel for his appearance, demeanor, or the way he has represented the university. In fact he is almost universally respected in these areas. Now, I too have seen posts that mention Jay-Z, and those may hint at the under current you are referring to, but I remember them as jokes. If ESPN ran a story on Stoops' Backstreet Boy collection, I would imagine that we would see posts about that as well.

TRUE!!!! Excellent points.

For the record, I'm one who knows that just bringing up race doesn't always have to be a bad thing. Most of the older posters know my stance on the condition of the black community. I have been harder on my fellow black athletes, so-called leaders, etc. I also try daily to do my part to correct many of those things. I'm a social worker by trade/calling, so I study alot of psychology and social issues. When I mention race, which I don't unless I think its meritted, I never do so in an attack mode. Most racism is born of stereotypes and ignorance, and without equal dialogue, and the ability to consider others' points of view, racism will always have a place in society.

Didn't mean to turn the thread, just adding my 2 cents, which are worth about 2 cents.:woot:woot

 

[Max Power]

Fair enough, good point.




Good examples



This is all true, but I cannot recall any OU supporters ever criticizing Capel for his appearance, demeanor, or the way he has represented the university. In fact he is almost universally respected in these areas. Now, I too have seen posts that mention Jay-Z, and those may hint at the under current you are referring to, but I remember them as jokes. If ESPN ran a story on Stoops' Backstreet Boy collection, I would imagine that we would see posts about that as well.

I know i would make jokes about it, Just like people do to Sully as Ohio St for his Miley Cyrus Addiction. Its all in Jest and not meant to be an attack I hope

 

[StatGeek]

TRUE!!!! Excellent points.

For the record, I'm one who knows that just bringing up race doesn't always have to be a bad thing. Most of the older posters know my stance on the condition of the black community. I have been harder on my fellow black athletes, so-called leaders, etc. I also try daily to do my part to correct many of those things. I'm a social worker by trade/calling, so I study alot of psychology and social issues. When I mention race, which I don't unless I think its meritted, I never do so in an attack mode. Most racism is born of stereotypes and ignorance, and without equal dialogue, and the ability to consider others' points of view, racism will always have a place in society.

Didn't mean to turn the thread, just adding my 2 cents, which are worth about 2 cents.:woot:woot

I appreciate the perspective you bring, your background (that I am aware of), the work you do, and how you tried to give people a better understanding of TMG imp-particularly. I overreacted to your post.