How excited is Capel

[Mr.B!!!]

Based on what we KNOW to date, no rule was broken. Now the problem is, if this was legit, then why:

A. Did Tailiferro "resign"?
B. Did Tiny Leave when even he knew he wasn't ready?
C. has there been no word or resolution yet?

That's what is fueling the speculation that rules were broken. I have not read the NCAA handbook so I don't know if a rule was broken, and I don't know if the NCAA will make up the rules as they go. All I can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst

A. He said he wanted to pursue other opportunities. The consensus on here was that he added very little in the form of bench coaching and maybe Capel realized that the guy wasn't getting it done overall? Reality is that we just don't know and probably never will...could have been a move that since he made things "look bad" coupled with the above, there was a push to get him gone. Heck, it might have been that he was dumb enough to use a University phone when just about any idiot, particularly after the Sampson debacle, would know to use tier own phone. IMHO stupidity = just cause.

B. Tiny is looking at being a first round draft pick (despite what everybody on here was saying). Dude said he wanted to be "one and done" then he said that he wanted to come back and then changed his mind again. Not sure if the guy is even 20 yet, but certainly you know that he'd rather be in the NBA getting paid now than later...see Exhibit "A": Willie Warren for the logic in what he might have been thinking. Guy has friends in the NBA now, they (or their agents) probably told him he had a good shot to get guaranteed money.

C. No idea, but you'll admit that there has been quite a bit of stuff happening lately, right? That said, what would you expect to hear in a relatively short period of time? OU is certainly cooperating with any NCAA investigation, maybe there won't be any word because no rules were broken. That nobody has even cited what the possible infraction was is a good sign to me.

 

[Max Power]

A. He said he wanted to pursue other opportunities. The consensus on here was that he added very little in the form of bench coaching and maybe Capel realized that the guy wasn't getting it done overall? Reality is that we just don't know and probably never will...could have been a move that since he made things "look bad" coupled with the above, there was a push to get him gone. Heck, it might have been that he was dumb enough to use a University phone when just about any idiot, particularly after the Sampson debacle, would know to use tier own phone. IMHO stupidity = just cause.

B. Tiny is looking at being a first round draft pick (despite what everybody on here was saying). Dude said he wanted to be "one and done" then he said that he wanted to come back and then changed his mind again. Not sure if the guy is even 20 yet, but certainly you know that he'd rather be in the NBA getting paid now than later...see Exhibit "A": Willie Warren for the logic in what he might have been thinking. Guy has friends in the NBA now, they (or their agents) probably told him he had a good shot to get guaranteed money.

C. No idea, but you'll admit that there has been quite a bit of stuff happening lately, right? That said, what would you expect to hear in a relatively short period of time? OU is certainly cooperating with any NCAA investigation, maybe there won't be any word because no rules were broken. That nobody has even cited what the possible infraction was is a good sign to me.

I agree stupidity should = just cause. I just think that with recruiting season starting for the 2011 class we would want to know if we are going to have any scholarships or not. If we have to sit and wait and we aren't punished, its almost like a punishment because we will be behind the curve on recruiting

Just my opinion though, I certainty don't want to see us in trouble, and honestly hope we did nothing wrong. I'm just posting the questions i have so that they may be discussed.

 

[Max Power]

Per the NCAA Handbook:

13.15.1 Prohibited Expenses. An institution or a representative of its athletics interests shall not offer, provide or arrange financial assistance, directly or indirectly, to pay (in whole or in part) the costs of the prospective student-athlete’s educational or other expenses for any period prior to his or her enrollment or so the prospective student-athlete can obtain a postgraduate education. For violations of Bylaw 13.15 in which the value of the benefit received directly by the prospective student-athlete is $100 or less, the eligibility of the prospective student athlete shall not be affected conditioned on the prospective student-athlete repaying the value of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. However, the prospective student-athlete shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the direct impermissible benefit until the prospective student-athlete repays the benefit. Violations of this bylaw remain institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1, and documentation of the prospective student-athlete’s repayment shall be forwarded to the enforcement staff. (Revised: 8/5/04)

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Per the NCAA Handbook:

13.15.1 Prohibited Expenses. An institution or a representative of its athletics interests shall not offer, provide or arrange financial assistance, directly or indirectly, to pay (in whole or in part) the costs of the prospective student-athlete’s educational or other expenses for any period prior to his or her enrollment or so the prospective student-athlete can obtain a postgraduate education. For violations of Bylaw 13.15 in which the value of the benefit received directly by the prospective student-athlete is $100 or less, the eligibility of the prospective student athlete shall not be affected conditioned on the prospective student-athlete repaying the value of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. However, the prospective student-athlete shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the direct impermissible benefit until the prospective student-athlete repays the benefit. Violations of this bylaw remain institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1, and documentation of the prospective student-athlete’s repayment shall be forwarded to the enforcement staff. (Revised: 8/5/04)

First, let me say that I appreciate someone finally looking up the rule that is possibly at issue. Now, let's look at it:

1. To "pay". At worst, OT was instrumental in helping to arrange a "loan" with a company that was in the business of arranging loans. That is not a payment in ordinary and customary use of the word.

Merril Lynch, by law, cannot give out this information behind the loan without a subpoena, and the NCAA does not have subpoena power, moreover, it is a federal crime for Hausinger or anyone from ML to discuss the transaction [except in the case of a subpoena] without the consent of Tiny's mother.

2. I suspect that the second bolded portion was the reason why Tiny sat on the bench for a game or two, OU investigated and determined that the transaction was not against this regulation; whether the NCAA agrees, who knows? But given $3,000 that was paid pack, talk of post-season bans and scholarship reductions seem awfully premature to me.

FWIW, I think the media, especially guys like Carey Murdock have been particularly guilty of jumping to conclusions on this. If there is something we don't know about, then they don't know about it or they would report it. Just wish that everyone would take a step back on this and think about it rationally for 5 seconds.

 

[SoonerNorm]

First, let me say that I appreciate someone finally looking up the rule that is possibly at issue. Now, let's look at it:

1. To "pay". At worst, OT was instrumental in helping to arrange a "loan" with a company that was in the business of arranging loans. That is not a payment in ordinary and customary use of the word.

Merril Lynch, by law, cannot give out this information behind the loan without a subpoena, and the NCAA does not have subpoena power, moreover, it is a federal crime for Hausinger or anyone from ML to discuss the transaction [except in the case of a subpoena] without the consent of Tiny's mother.

2. I suspect that the second bolded portion was the reason why Tiny sat on the bench for a game or two, OU investigated and determined that the transaction was not against this regulation; whether the NCAA agrees, who knows? But given $3,000 that was paid pack, talk of post-season bans and scholarship reductions seem awfully premature to me.

FWIW, I think the media, especially guys like Carey Murdock have been particularly guilty of jumping to conclusions on this. If there is something we don't know about, then they don't know about it or they would report it. Just wish that everyone would take a step back on this and think about it rationally for 5 seconds.

Do we know for sure that the loan was paid back in full?

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Do we know for sure that the loan was paid back in full?

Tiny says it was...and if you can speculate about the bad, I think it is fair to speculate the good: that he would not have gotten play if that issue was in doubt according to OU.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Tiny says it was...and if you can speculate about the bad, I think it is fair to speculate the good: that he would not have gotten play if that issue was in doubt according to OU.

That's good...I had just missed that I guess in the articles I have read. Thanks!

 

[Mr.B!!!]

That's good...I had just missed that I guess in the articles I have read. Thanks!

I may seem like Information Minister, but $3,000 that was paid back and cannot be tied directly to the University or a Booster does not = loss of scholarships or post-season bans (or getting "hammered"). Wishful thinking by some who want Capel gone IMHO.

 

[BigTime]

That's good...I had just missed that I guess in the articles I have read. Thanks!

Norm,

It seems obvious to me now that the reported issues with the "shoe agent" that caused Tiny to sit for a game were instead our compliance department looking into this issue with Hausinger and the loan. I can't say for certain, but I would be shocked if the loan wasn't paid back or else Joe C would have pulled the plug on Tiny's season.

In the end it just makes a lot more sense that there was little done that was the fault of this staff or this program. Was/is Hausinger a snake? Probably. But OU's compliance department (which from what I have heard is one of the strictest in the Big 12), gave Tiny the ok to keep on playing, and Joe C kept Capel at the helm, so to me, there must have been minimal wrongdoings by our program.

I could be wrong, but that just makes the most sense to me right now.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Norm,

It seems obvious to me now that the reported issues with the "shoe agent" that caused Tiny to sit for a game were instead our compliance department looking into this issue with Hausinger and the loan. I can't say for certain, but I would be shocked if the loan wasn't paid back or else Joe C would have pulled the plug on Tiny's season.

In the end it just makes a lot more sense that there was little done that was the fault of this staff or this program. Was/is Hausinger a snake? Probably. But OU's compliance department (which from what I have heard is one of the strictest in the Big 12), gave Tiny the ok to keep on playing, and Joe C kept Capel at the helm, so to me, there must have been minimal wrongdoings by our program.

I could be wrong, but that just makes the most sense to me right now.

Me too, and the substance of that speculation has way more "connect-the-dots" validity than what I hear from the sanctions crowd.

 

[BigTime]

Me too, and the substance of that speculation has way more "connect-the-dots" validity than what I hear from the sanctions crowd.

I guess the sanctions crowd thinks that Joe C is also a cheater or that he is now going to try and undercut the NCAA by pulling a USC and not admitting any wrongdoings.

Having a little experience in seeing how the athletic department works from my experience in starting the Capelables and trying to advocate changes regarding our basketball program and its fans, I can tell you that Joe C is a very hands on AD, who knows exactly what goes on with nearly every detail. I have criticized him in the past for being TOO hands on, but I think it is also part of what makes him such a successful AD. Trust me when I say that he knows ALL the details of this matter and he has known them for a long time. The fact that Capel is still here speaks volumes to me. The fact that Tiny was allowed to play the rest of the season speaks volumes to me.

I guess the NCAA might not agree with our compliance department's ruling on the matter, so that could still get us punished, but I really am leaning towards nothing happening to our program. Hopefully I am correct.

I will grant the sanctions crowd that this situation on paper looks awful. Perception obviously hurt us in recruiting both athletes (Aziz and Marquis) and coaches (Daughtery).

That is why I am hoping that this will resolve well before next spring.

 

[Cheno]

I may seem like Information Minister, but $3,000 that was paid back and cannot be tied directly to the University or a Booster does not = loss of scholarships or post-season bans (or getting "hammered"). Wishful thinking by some who want Capel gone IMHO.

Problem is your dealing with the NCAA who's unsympathetic to anything. They are like the mafia.
Heck, they made Darnell Jackson sit like 9 games because I guy who happened to be a booster that he'd known for a long-time (before he was that good at basketball) from OKC gave his mom rides to the KU games, took Darnell out to eat when he was in town, etc. Little petty stuff that all family friends do. Why wouldn't he and Darnell's mom ride to games together when they both live in OKC and are very close.

 

[BigTime]

You will find that many of the non-OU fans on this and other boards will continue to milk this thing for all its worth. That's just the nature of the message board game though. There are several on here that love to fan the flames.

And honestly, I would do the same if it were Kansas or Okie State (Just not on their message board).

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Problem is your dealing with the NCAA who's unsympathetic to anything.

You hope.

A player sitting for several games is a far cry from the major sanctions you are predicting above. Not that I blame you, you are a fan of a rival...what I don't get is OU fans and local media salivating over it without any basis.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I guess the sanctions crowd thinks that Joe C is also a cheater or that he is now going to try and undercut the NCAA by pulling a USC and not admitting any wrongdoings.

Having a little experience in seeing how the athletic department works from my experience in starting the Capelables and trying to advocate changes regarding our basketball program and its fans, I can tell you that Joe C is a very hands on AD, who knows exactly what goes on with nearly every detail. I have criticized him in the past for being TOO hands on, but I think it is also part of what makes him such a successful AD. Trust me when I say that he knows ALL the details of this matter and he has known them for a long time. The fact that Capel is still here speaks volumes to me. The fact that Tiny was allowed to play the rest of the season speaks volumes to me.

I guess the NCAA might not agree with our compliance department's ruling on the matter, so that could still get us punished, but I really am leaning towards nothing happening to our program. Hopefully I am correct.

I will grant the sanctions crowd that this situation on paper looks awful. Perception obviously hurt us in recruiting both athletes (Aziz and Marquis) and coaches (Daughtery).

That is why I am hoping that this will resolve well before next spring.

BT, I find myself agreeing with just about everything you said so count me as one who is optimistic as well.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

BT, I find myself agreeing with just about everything you said so count me as one who is optimistic as well.

Beats sitting around expecting the worse and whether intended or not, speculating our program into mediocrity. JMHO.

 

[sdcloud9]

Could it be that OU called the NCAA during Tiny's suspension and discussed the matter with them before reintstating Gallon?

IF that is the reason Gallon was suspended by OU, it would make no sense to reinstate him if there were any questions about what had happened and if any rules were broken.

I also believe that Joe C. and David B. would have sent Jeff C. packing if they believed the school or its coaches had broken the rules.

Of course two coaches leaving sure makes it appear they were potential scapegoats for any wrongdoing by school personnel.

It is a tangled web for sure!!

 

[BigTime]

BT, I find myself agreeing with just about everything you said so count me as one who is optimistic as well.

Norm,

I was about as negative about this whole situation as anyone, but the more I think and think about it logically, the more I keep coming to the conclusion that the program did very little (to nothing) wrong.

My source's reassurance only reinforced what I am now thinking. FFSooner seems to think some of the same things, so hopefully he has been hearing some info from his sources as well. It was interesting because the day that he posted about the situation potentially being ok was the same day that I talked to my guy. I haven't had a lot of time to dig into this due to some off the board stuff that I have going in my life right now.

Now there is the chance that I am completely wrong and that we are about to get are butt's handed to us. And if that is so, then I will certainly man up and admit that I was wrong about the situation.

Either way, I hope we hear back sooner rather than later so that we can start to patch up our image.

 

[BigTime]

Could it be that OU called the NCAA during Tiny's suspension and discussed the matter with them before reintstating Gallon?

IF that is the reason Gallon was suspended by OU, it would make no sense to reinstate him if there were any questions about what had happened and if any rules were broken.

I also believe that Joe C. and David B. would have sent Jeff C. packing if they believed the school or its coaches had broken the rules.

Of course two coaches leaving sure makes it appear they were potential scapegoats for any wrongdoing by school personnel.
It is a tangled web for sure!!

Can't refute Orande's odd firing, but I have heard from a couple of folks that Coach Cline has a close family member that is terminally ill, so that COULD explain him leaving us for a lesser program.

I will say this about Orande: He couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag, and its obvious that Coach Capel realizes that he needs to adjust the type of player that he is recruiting to Oklahoma (the Warren, TMG, and Tinys of the world aren't going to cut it at OU as evidenced by last year's pitiful display of team basketball and defense), so maybe he and O decided to part ways.

Again I will grant that both coaches leaving looks terrible on paper. But I am fairly confident that the Cline issue was primarily based on family.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Norm,

I was about as negative about this whole situation as anyone, but the more I think and think about it logically, the more I keep coming to the conclusion that the program did very little (to nothing) wrong.

My source's reassurance only reinforced what I am now thinking. FFSooner seems to think some of the same things, so hopefully he has been hearing some info from his sources as well. It was interesting because the day that he posted about the situation potentially being ok was the same day that I talked to my guy. I haven't had a lot of time to dig into this due to some off the board stuff that I have going in my life right now.

Now there is the chance that I am completely wrong and that we are about to get are butt's handed to us. And if that is so, then I will certainly man up and admit that I was wrong about the situation.

Either way, I hope we hear back sooner rather than later so that we can start to patch up our image.

Why?

Based on what we know, your conjecture makes twice as much sense as what is coming from "fans" and some of the media that purports to cover OU closely.

Seriously, of what we know (or at least have been told) is the issue is that Tiny's mom received a $3,000 loan that was paid back.

Sorry, that alone does not equal losing scholarships and post-season bans. It just doesn't.