How excited is Capel

[Max Power]

First, let me say that I appreciate someone finally looking up the rule that is possibly at issue. Now, let's look at it:

1. To "pay". At worst, OT was instrumental in helping to arrange a "loan" with a company that was in the business of arranging loans. That is not a payment in ordinary and customary use of the word.

Merril Lynch, by law, cannot give out this information behind the loan without a subpoena, and the NCAA does not have subpoena power, moreover, it is a federal crime for Hausinger or anyone from ML to discuss the transaction [except in the case of a subpoena] without the consent of Tiny's mother.

2. I suspect that the second bolded portion was the reason why Tiny sat on the bench for a game or two, OU investigated and determined that the transaction was not against this regulation; whether the NCAA agrees, who knows? But given $3,000 that was paid pack, talk of post-season bans and scholarship reductions seem awfully premature to me.

FWIW, I think the media, especially guys like Carey Murdock have been particularly guilty of jumping to conclusions on this. If there is something we don't know about, then they don't know about it or they would report it. Just wish that everyone would take a step back on this and think about it rationally for 5 seconds.

But If you read above that, a coach CAN NOT help secure the loan. If he did then we broke rules

 

[Mr.B!!!]

But If you read above that, a coach CAN NOT help secure the loan. If he did then we broke rules

You want to know where to find the most student athletes at OU about 2-3 weeks before school starts? At Sooner Fashion Mall spending the Pell Grant and Student Loan money on new gear. At least when I was there, OU actually had a financial aid person (or people) DEDICATED to arranging these loans for student athletes which, to be certain, are made known to players during their recruitment.

And it is a rule, not rules. $3,000 [again, $3,000] that was paid back [again paid back] under a loan which cannot be openly discussed by either the lender or Hausinger and probably OT without violating federal privacy laws. Am I happy it happened? No. But we will probably never know the particulars...and so long as it is just this, OU is "probably" not going to lose significant scholarships or suffer a post-season ban [or get "hammered" in any way].

 

[Max Power]

Per the NCAA Handbook:

13.15.1 Prohibited Expenses. An institution or a representative of its athletics interests shall not offer, provide or arrange financial assistance, directly or indirectly, to pay (in whole or in part) the costs of the prospective student-athlete’s educational or other expenses for any period PRIOR to his or her enrollment or so the prospective student-athlete can obtain a postgraduate education. For violations of Bylaw 13.15 in which the value of the benefit received directly by the prospective student-athlete is $100 or less, the eligibility of the prospective student athlete shall not be affected conditioned on the prospective student-athlete repaying the value of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. However, the prospective student-athlete shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the direct impermissible benefit until the prospective student-athlete repays the benefit. Violations of this bylaw remain institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1, and documentation of the prospective student-athlete’s repayment shall be forwarded to the enforcement staff. (Revised: 8/5/04)

Once they are enrolled we can give them loans and all that. But if Coach O helped arrange the Loan for Tiny so He could get his transcript and THEN enroll, the rule was broke. All those guys a sooner fashion mall have already enrolled, Tiny had not because he didn't have a Transcript. And since it was $3,000 that violates the language for its only ok if was less than $100 its ok to pay it back then play.

 

[SoonerNorm]

There is a question as to whether OT "arranged financial assistance". It is presumed he introduced Hausinger to the Gallons but does an introduction constitute an "arranged" loan? Would OT have to do more than introduce the parties before the rule was actually broken? What does it mean by "indirectly"?

We have some lawyers on here who can probably address those questions.

 

[Max Power]

There is a question as to whether OT "arranged financial assistance". It is presumed he introduced Hausinger to the Gallons but does an introduction constitute an "arranged" loan? Would OT have to do more than introduce the parties before the rule was actually broken? What does it mean by "indirectly"?

We have some lawyers on here who can probably address those questions.

That's the gray area that the NCAA will have to make a ruling on. That's what I have been trying to get people to understand

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Per the NCAA Handbook:

13.15.1 Prohibited Expenses. An institution or a representative of its athletics interests shall not offer, provide or arrange financial assistance, directly or indirectly, to pay (in whole or in part) the costs of the prospective student-athlete’s educational or other expenses for any period prior to his or her enrollment or so the prospective student-athlete can obtain a postgraduate education. For violations of Bylaw 13.15 in which the value of the benefit received directly by the prospective student-athlete is $100 or less, the eligibility of the prospective student athlete shall not be affected conditioned on the prospective student-athlete repaying the value of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. However, the prospective student-athlete shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the direct impermissible benefit until the prospective student-athlete repays the benefit. Violations of this bylaw remain institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1, and documentation of the prospective student-athlete’s repayment shall be forwarded to the enforcement staff. (Revised: 8/5/04)

I'm going to go through this again:

1. "To pay" is distinguishable from "to loan", "to pay" in its plainest meaning does not imply that a "loan" is being made, it means a payment is being made for the benefit of someone else without the expectation of repayment. To loan is not making a "payment", it is making a loan with the expectation of repayment.

2. "or arrange" payment is what the NCAA will be required to prove that OT did before OU is "guilty" of an NCAA violation. To prove that, OT will need to say he did it [there goes his coaching career in the NCAA], Hausinger will have to say what OT did [violating Tiny and his mom's privacy rights in the process, there goes any career in banking or financial management], or Merrill Lynch will have to disclose something that is non-disclosable under federal law].

3. If I am OT, here is exactly what I say [which may ACTUALLY be the truth]: Tiny was having trouble getting his transcript and he told me his mom was getting a loan, I called the guy that he was talking to on several occasions to determine what the status of the loan was so I could know if Tiny was going to be in a position to make it to OU. If that is the case, there is no "arranging" for a loan, it is making inquiries as to the status. As far as federal law goes, Tiny's mom said it was okay for Hausinger to keep OT apprised...no harm, no foul.

 

[Max Power]

I'm going to go through this again:

1. "To pay" is distinguishable from "to loan", "to pay" in its plainest meaning does not imply that a "loan" is being made, it means a payment is being made for the benefit of someone else without the expectation of repayment. To loan is not making a "payment", it is making a loan with the expectation of repayment.

2. "or arrange" payment is what the NCAA will be required to prove that OT did before OU is "guilty" of an NCAA violation. To prove that, OT will need to say he did it [there goes his coaching career in the NCAA], Hausinger will have to say what OT did [violating Tiny and his mom's privacy rights in the process, there goes any career in banking or financial management], or Merrill Lynch will have to disclose something that is non-disclosable under federal law].

3. If I am OT, here is exactly what I say [which may ACTUALLY be the truth]: Tiny was having trouble getting his transcript and he told me his mom was getting a loan, I called the guy that he was talking to on several occasions to determine what the status of the loan was so I could know if Tiny was going to be in a position to make it to OU. If that is the case, there is no "arranging" for a loan, it is making inquiries as to the status. As far as federal law goes, Tiny's mom said it was okay for Hausinger to keep OT apprised...no harm, no foul.

So it looks like we took different paths to the same conclusion. IF, which I have said multiple times, Coach O arranged it it is a violation. that's what the NCAA is investigating. IF Coach O is smart he would go along with #3. My doubts come that since he is at Oklahoma, using a school issued phone, I'm not sure he is smart enough to go along with #3.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Just thinking out loud, it seems to me that in order for OT to "arrange" for the Gallons to get the loan, he would have to 1) somehow use leverage over Hausinger to coerce him to make the loan (which seems very remote) or 2) agree that he (OT) would guarantee repayment of the loan (which again does not seem likely). But, an introduction of the parties just does not seem to reach the level of "arranging" for financial aid as far as I can tell and I can't think of any other scenerios in which OT could have "arranged" the loan.

As Mr.B has said, it isn't likely that Hausinger is going to talk and I really can't see OT cutting his own throat with the NCAA by saying "yes, I agreed to pay the loan if the Gallons defaulted".

Perhaps the NCAA can obtain a copy of the loan agreement (but maybe not) but I'm quite sure if they do see the loan agreement they will not find OT's name on the document anywhere.

Some have been calling for OU to self impose penalties. Perhaps this is the very reason that hasn't happened. It could be that we have not broken any rules.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Just thinking out loud, it seems to me that in order for OT to "arrange" for the Gallons to get the loan, he would have to 1) somehow use leverage over Hausinger to coerce him to make the loan (which seems very remote) or 2) agree that he (OT) would guarantee repayment of the loan (which again does not seem likely). But, an introduction of the parties just does not seem to reach the level of "arranging" for financial aid as far as I can tell and I can't think of any other scenerios in which OT could have "arranged" the loan.

As Mr.B has said, it isn't likely that Hausinger is going to talk and I really can't see OT cutting his own throat with the NCAA by saying "yes, I agreed to pay the loan if the Gallons defaulted".

Perhaps the NCAA can obtain a copy of the loan agreement (but maybe not) but I'm quite sure if they do see the loan agreement they will not find OT's name on the document anywhere.

Some have been calling for OU to self impose penalties. Perhaps this is the very reason that hasn't happened. It could be that we have not broken any rules.

As was probably determined previously.