Incoming transfer?

[okhoops918]

A key about the bench mentioned here -- we can't possibly be worse in bench play next year. Our bench AVERAGED 12 points, 7 rebounds while shooting 35% and less than 30% from 3 ... including all of the early season games against middling (and worse) competition.

I would expect a major increase in contributions from the bench next year. Our starting lineup might not be as good, but walker and Booker are going to have some competition for minutes from buford, ofdomes, and james.

agree with this.

Krugers use of the bench will be interesting though. You have to give guys like Burford, Odomes, and James minutes to get comfortable enough to trust them down the road in bigger games but you also need to win ball games even in non-conference. So it can be a catch 22 in a way.

It was pretty easy for Kruger to give Cousins/Hield/Hornbeak playing time as freshman because the starters at the guard spot weren't that great.

Something to watch. But unless the roster changes, I just don't see how we win the big 12 next year if only Hield returns and rest of roster stays same. It took alot to go our way to have a chance this year. I don't think ISU or KU lose as much.

 

[okhoops918]

Some of you guys are way way off on your expectations for Manyang. I'm just as interested as everyone else on the prospects for next season. For that reason, I check from time to time on his status and progress with various staff members. The most recent imput was within the last week.

All I have ever heard was that the staff believes him to be the "missing piece" or "we believe as a staff that we can take him to the next level as a player and in return we expect him to take us to the next level as a team". No time frame was predicted. But, everyone within reasonable proximity to the program expects him to roll in and start immediately.

that may be the case and he definitely bring some size but he averaged 8.5ppg and 5.7rpg in 15mpg in JUCO this year.

Indian hills is a good juco and they spread their minutes around but those stats don't exactly scream program changer to me.

If you watch his tape, it's 80% dunks with a few midrange jumpers that I doubt they'd want him taking many of in compariso to TT, who we could throw the ball downlow in post and let him go to work to create a shot.

Manyang is taller and more athletic than TT so that should help rim protection but I think we're giving up alot of offense wtih Manyang.

He's still very raw as a player

 

[pnkranger]

If Hield stays, we lose Thomas and Bennett and gain five players, including a 7 footer, two big athletic guards, mcneace and buford. I think we can replace Thomas's impact simply by being better for a full 40 minutes (I.e. Minimize drop off when starters sit). With hield, I expect us to be more consistent next year and to win more games simply with experience and depth.

 

[okhoops918]

If Hield stays, we lose Thomas and Bennett and gain five players, including a 7 footer, two big athletic guards, mcneace and buford. I think we can replace Thomas's impact simply by being better for a full 40 minutes (I.e. Minimize drop off when starters sit). With hield, I expect us to be more consistent next year and to win more games simply with experience and depth.

hope you're right. I just don't see it yet.

 

[garyeb2]

that may be the case and he definitely bring some size but he averaged 8.5ppg and 5.7rpg in 15mpg in JUCO this year.

Indian hills is a good juco and they spread their minutes around but those stats don't exactly scream program changer to me.

If you watch his tape, it's 80% dunks with a few midrange jumpers that I doubt they'd want him taking many of in compariso to TT, who we could throw the ball downlow in post and let him go to work to create a shot.

Manyang is taller and more athletic than TT so that should help rim protection but I think we're giving up alot of offense wtih Manyang.

He's still very raw as a player

I appreciate your imput. But, I'm talking to the people that recruited, signed, and will coach him. They didn't have to tell me anything or could have spoken in generalities. That has been the case on some recruits that I've asked about.

 

[CoachTalk]

Maybe that is b/c I know more about you than you think I do?

As in, where you coach and where you went to school. I have family at the school you coach at. You even coach one of them.

Nothing goes on in this part of Oklahoma that I don't know about.

Interesting... Lot of folks on here know who I am.

Kind of creepy to be honest.

 

[Max Power]

Maybe that is b/c I know more about you than you think I do?

As in, where you coach and where you went to school. I have family at the school you coach at. You even coach one of them.

Nothing goes on in this part of Oklahoma that I don't know about.

That's some stalker ish right there.

 

[CoachTalk]

that's some stalker ish right there.

yep.

 

[CoachTalk]

I appreciate your imput. But, I'm talking to the people that recruited, signed, and will coach him. They didn't have to tell me anything or could have spoken in generalities. That has been the case on some recruits that I've asked about.

Some of you guys are way way off on your expectations for Manyang. I'm just as interested as everyone else on the prospects for next season. For that reason, I check from time to time on his status and progress with various staff members. The most recent imput was within the last week.

All I have ever heard was that the staff believes him to be the "missing piece" or "we believe as a staff that we can take him to the next level as a player and in return we expect him to take us to the next level as a team". No time frame was predicted. But, everyone within reasonable proximity to the program expects him to roll in and start immediately.

I've heard the same thing for some time now. A lot of folks are hard on this program and we just went to sweet 16....

Of course we wish we were still playing. But LK and these players have put ou back on the map and back into a really good program

 

[JBaker]

hope you're right. I just don't see it yet.

I just don't see how we take any significant step back if we keep Buddy.
Sure, we lose Thomas, who was a good player, but was fairly inconsistent, and we didn't make enough of a point to run our offense through him anyway. But we add Buford, who would have started this year at a good chunk of power five schools. We add Manyang, who should certainly be able to improve upon Bennett's production a bit. We will get Lattin making probably a fairly sizable jump after his freshman year due to how high his ceiling is. And Booker should be improved, or at least more like the Booker we saw at the end of the season (barring Michigan State). That's not even mentioning the two freshman guards or the additional post depth of McNease. I think we should be slightly improved next year, and we would only take a fairly minor step back if Buddy decides to leave. Who knows what we will do when we get there, but if we stay fairly healthy, we'll be firmly in the dance again.

 

[BCSooners]

Also how much more competitive our guards will be in practice, I have a feeling Woodard, Hield, & Cousins were able to do whatever they wanted against the next 3 guards. Also our lineup can actually fluctuate to play how we want.
Small:
Woodard
Cousins
Hield
Buford
Lattin/manyang
Big:
Woodard
Hield
Buford
Spangler
Manyang
Key to both of those lineups=Buford

 

[skyvue]

I expect Lattin to be improved next season, but given he brought almost nothing to the table offensively this season, he'd had to make a huge leap in that area to go very far in replacing Thomas, who was vastly underappreciated by many posters on this board. And though I fervently hope I'm wrong, I fear many who consistently underrated Thomas this year will come to appreciate him much more next season when he's not around.

Maybe Lattin, Buford and Manyang will combine to replace those missing points next season; I hope so. But asking that of two first-year (in D1) players and a sophomore who showed almost no offensive prowess off the bench as a freshman is asking a lot.

 

[TheGimper]

The only thing I can say about losing Thomas is we've lost guys like Osby & M'Baye and Lon has continued to grow the program. I really like the player development under Kruger's regime, so if Buddy comes back I feel like next year's team should be even better.

 

[coolm]

I liked Thomas. Don't get me wrong. But we just went thru a whole season trying to plug him in and it was always like putting a square peg in a round hole. I don't see that our offense ever jelled around him.

Getting Spangler and a couple of other guys more accustomed to taking that little shot from the high post and the associated trash points from misses there and more driving to the hole will IMO be a more easy-to-accommodate feature of next year's offense and beyond PLUS we get better defense inside.

I think next year's team may be better with the loss of Thomas as we get back more to the offense of 2 seasons ago plus we have even better defense than we had then (and better than this season as well). As nice as Thomas was in the low post offensively ... his Ole defense was a consistent issue. Heal Spangler's back and get better post D from someone else = a big improvement.

 

[okhoops918]

I just don't see how we take any significant step back if we keep Buddy.
Sure, we lose Thomas, who was a good player, but was fairly inconsistent, and we didn't make enough of a point to run our offense through him anyway. But we add Buford, who would have started this year at a good chunk of power five schools. We add Manyang, who should certainly be able to improve upon Bennett's production a bit. We will get Lattin making probably a fairly sizable jump after his freshman year due to how high his ceiling is. And Booker should be improved, or at least more like the Booker we saw at the end of the season (barring Michigan State). That's not even mentioning the two freshman guards or the additional post depth of McNease. I think we should be slightly improved next year, and we would only take a fairly minor step back if Buddy decides to leave. Who knows what we will do when we get there, but if we stay fairly healthy, we'll be firmly in the dance again.

If we keep buddy, I didn't say significant step back. I said a small stepback (in otherwords, not competing for the Big 12 but finishing top 4 is reasonable still...just don't think we can win it with post scoring from TT)

Manyangs impact, Bufords impact, Lattins improvement, Booker improvement, and the HS kids impacts at this point are just really big IFs.
You can't expect all of them to work out in OU's favor to a great extent.

Historicallly it's doubtful that Buford comes in as a starter who is a flat out stud AND Manyang is the 7footer we've all dreamed of with post moves and great rim protection presence. 8ppg/5rpg doesn't scream out to me that he is that. Maybe I'm wrong but the likely hood both those guys are major impact guys is slim.

The idea of Booker improving isn't optimistic. Maybe increase his % and be able to pump fake and step in for a long 2 jumper but he is pretty much the player he's going to be IMO. He lacks the athleticism to do a ton more.

Lattin's ceiling is high and he's very raw. So he can definitely improve drastically but how much will he in 1 offseason?

HS recruits with limited minutes next year will be hard to make a major impact. Go look at Hields freshman stats and he got big minutes as a Fr. 25mpg and 7ppg. Hield was as good or better HS prospect than Odomes or James who won't see near the 25mpg that Hield did. So even if they're good players and good players for the future...next year their effect will be small but will help our depth.

I think we are in the dance no matter Buddy's decision but if Buddy leaves we are looking at more of a 7-10 seed type year. If buddy stays and current roster then possibly a 3-6 seed. If Buddy stays and we get this mysterious impact transfer than the sky is the limit if the transfer is better than TT.

At this point, I just don't see anyone coming in or on our roster that is as good as TT or better than...period.

You can talk about all these IFs or potential but thats really just a disrespect to TT.

There is a reason OU went from a team that got bounced vs ND ST in round64 to a 3 seed who went tot he wire in the sweet16 game.

The reason's name is Tashawn Thomas.

 

[okhoops918]

I expect Lattin to be improved next season, but given he brought almost nothing to the table offensively this season, he'd had to make a huge leap in that area to go very far in replacing Thomas, who was vastly underappreciated by many posters on this board. And though I fervently hope I'm wrong, I fear many who consistently underrated Thomas this year will come to appreciate him much more next season when he's not around.

Maybe Lattin, Buford and Manyang will combine to replace those missing points next season; I hope so. But asking that of two first-year (in D1) players and a sophomore who showed almost no offensive prowess off the bench as a freshman is asking a lot.

Pretty much my thoughts as well!

I just don't see how we put together a better regular season next year either.

However, you don't have to be a 3 seed or win the big 12 to make a run in the tournament as we've seen.

Even if we finish 4th in Big 12 and get a 5 seed...these players now have experience and more depth which helps in tournaments.

But I just don't see a post scoring presence on the squad next year which is a valuable thing to have.

 

[IndySooner]

Some of you guys are way way off on your expectations for Manyang. I'm just as interested as everyone else on the prospects for next season. For that reason, I check from time to time on his status and progress with various staff members. The most recent imput was within the last week.

All I have ever heard was that the staff believes him to be the "missing piece" or "we believe as a staff that we can take him to the next level as a player and in return we expect him to take us to the next level as a team". No time frame was predicted. But, everyone within reasonable proximity to the program expects him to roll in and start immediately.

That's certainly encouraging, but newcomers rarely step in right away and make a huge impact. It takes until half-way through the season to get into the flow and be the impact player. It will be interesting to see if Manyang can be that guy next year and help us get into the competition with KU and ISU for the conference title.

Buddy coming or going is going to have a huge effect on all of that as well.

I'm very intrigued by this transfer. Someone to immediately take either Thomas or Hield's place would be huge.

 

[okhoops918]

The only thing I can say about losing Thomas is we've lost guys like Osby & M'Baye and Lon has continued to grow the program. I really like the player development under Kruger's regime, so if Buddy comes back I feel like next year's team should be even better.

I guess you forgot last season when all we had was Spangler and it killed us down the stretch.

Part of that was Mbaye deciding to leave on late notice

 

[JBaker]

If we keep buddy, I didn't say significant step back. I said a small stepback (in otherwords, not competing for the Big 12 but finishing top 4 is reasonable still...just don't think we can win it with post scoring from TT)



Manyangs impact, Bufords impact, Lattins improvement, Booker improvement, and the HS kids impacts at this point are just really big IFs.

You can't expect all of them to work out in OU's favor to a great extent.



Historicallly it's doubtful that Buford comes in as a starter who is a flat out stud AND Manyang is the 7footer we've all dreamed of with post moves and great rim protection presence. 8ppg/5rpg doesn't scream out to me that he is that. Maybe I'm wrong but the likely hood both those guys are major impact guys is slim.



The idea of Booker improving isn't optimistic. Maybe increase his % and be able to pump fake and step in for a long 2 jumper but he is pretty much the player he's going to be IMO. He lacks the athleticism to do a ton more.



Lattin's ceiling is high and he's very raw. So he can definitely improve drastically but how much will he in 1 offseason?



HS recruits with limited minutes next year will be hard to make a major impact. Go look at Hields freshman stats and he got big minutes as a Fr. 25mpg and 7ppg. Hield was as good or better HS prospect than Odomes or James who won't see near the 25mpg that Hield did. So even if they're good players and good players for the future...next year their effect will be small but will help our depth.



I think we are in the dance no matter Buddy's decision but if Buddy leaves we are looking at more of a 7-10 seed type year. If buddy stays and current roster then possibly a 3-6 seed. If Buddy stays and we get this mysterious impact transfer than the sky is the limit if the transfer is better than TT.



At this point, I just don't see anyone coming in or on our roster that is as good as TT or better than...period.



You can talk about all these IFs or potential but thats really just a disrespect to TT.



There is a reason OU went from a team that got bounced vs ND ST in round64 to a 3 seed who went tot he wire in the sweet16 game.



The reason's name is Tashawn Thomas.

I think you're significantly overrating the impact of Thomas.
He was an important player for us, absolutely.

But he wasn't as good as Osby. And when Osby graduated we went from a 10 seed to a 5 seed.

 

[okhoops918]

I think you're significantly overrating the impact of Thomas.
He was an important player for us, absolutely.

But he wasn't as good as Osby. And when Osby graduated we went from a 10 seed to a 5 seed.

We also Spangler incoming, emergence of a new era of guards. Woodard was a better PG than the one we had, Hield, Cousins, Hornbeak emerged from solid FR years to big time contributors.

That's why it's important to realize who you have leaving and who you have incoming or emerging.

You can discount Tashawn Thomas impact if you want and maybe we didn't rely very heavily on TT compared to Osby but part of that is because our team offense was relied heavily by Buddy and the guards.

I believe Osbys last year it was Pledge, Mbaye and some freshman guards. Osby shot the ball 330 times in his senior year while TT shot 230 times. Their efficiency's are identical. Osby grabbed more boards but he never played alongside of Spangler who would've taken away some of those from Osby IMO.

We went from a 10 to a 5 mostly because Cousins and Hield went from exciting freshman that could be developed to near all-conference type players in fact Hield I believe was 2nd team?

Plus we had Woodard as a PG instead of Sam Grooms (no offense to Grooms) but that's a big upgrade and we knew that going in.

Looking ahead, I don't think we can reasonably and logically say anyone is going to come close to Tashawn Thomas next year production wise. Maybe the net effect of everyones improvement PLUS the impact from new starter/depth will equal Thomas. There's only so many minutes, possessions, and shots to go around though so its hard for everyone to make a impact. Say Odomes is the best player of the guys who haven't seen the court yet...he won't get the minutes that Manyang Buford or Lattin will simply because there is no way Cousins and Hield don't play 30+mpg.

That only leaves ~ 18 minutes total for the wings (Odomes, James, Booker, Walker, maybe Buford) to share.

Woodard is booked for 25mpg. I don't see a backup PG on our squad either. Walker has been OK but not a PG. Cousins can play it but not like we need.

So we are going to be stacked at the wing position but we won't be able to fully utilize all their talent.

Finding starting PF or C is the important piece.

Maybe someone can show me how Lattin puts up 6/4 next year and Manyang puts up 8 and 6. I think that's a big IF especially when you consider efficiency and their role in the offense. I never once saw Lattin post up in a meaningful game. I don't know a ton about Manyang but all the tape I've seen is of him with putback dunks and little jumpers.

If you watched tight games this year, we were able to go to TT when we needed a bucket and he was pretty good at dishing it out if he was doubled. That's savvy play.

This year Lattin + Thomas = 14/10. I know sometimes they'd be on floor together but TT avg'd 29mpg and Lattin 11mpg so that's 1 full time position statistically.