Less athletes, more basketball players.....

Gutter said:
Tim wasn't a factor his senior year at all.
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Nonsense. His role changed. Pretty telling that a guy like that, during his senior year, was relegated to the role of 6th guard. He'd definitely get minutes over Pledger and Willis this year.

Also.....the kid did ALOT for the program as a soph/jr.
 
I would use Corey Brewer as example of the type of player we need more of.

Tough as nails, first guy on the ground for a loose ball, strong and quick.

Still my favorite player under Kelvin.
 
SoonerfanTU said:
Nonsense. His role changed. Pretty telling that a guy like that, during his senior year, was relegated to the role of 6th guard. He'd definitely get minutes over Pledger and Willis this year.

Also.....the kid did ALOT for the program as a soph/jr.
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No, he was hurt a lot, he really didn't do much that year....And, yeah, I agree, he was valuable his first three years. That's why I only said senior year.
 
Pledger and Willis wouldnt even get off the bench right now if a healthy Heskett were on roster.
 
I am really trying to figure out who are the athletes that aren't basketball players.

Juan Pattilo?
Blake Griffin?
Cade Davis?
Tony Crocker?
Orlando Allen?

I know it can't be Fitz and Pledger because they're more of the basketball players type than athletes.

TMG? Sure he is fairly athletic but he is very skilled.

I could see some argument for Tiny as he isn't a true post player at this time and therefore doesn't fit the model of a basketball player as a 4/5.

Guess I could see how an argument could be made on Ryan Wright and Ray Willis to some extent but overall I don't having too many athletes is this team's problem.

Willie being a good athlete isn't the reason people are upset with him, he has good basketball skills.

So what 3 players on this current squad that are more athlete than basketball and even those three are somewhat of a reach?

Are you just making a general statement for future recruiting or trying to define this as the problem this year?


Then doesn't this quote describe the signing of Fitzgerald and Pledger?
I just think we need a better mix. Sometimes take the more polished 75 ranked player or a JUCO, over the 30 ranked player who has a higher ceiling.
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soonersam said:
So what 3 players on this current squad that are more athlete than basketball and even those three are somewhat of a reach?
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Depends on the definition of athlete, I suppose, but I'd say the following:

Tiny
Willis
Warren
Allen

Athletic doesn't mean Carl Lewis. It means there is something about them physically that makes them more recruitable then their actual, current skill set. Tiny is athletic for his size. Willis is long. Warren is athletic in general. Allen is "big".

And my comment was meant in general, for guys like Patillo, and Maze, and Early, and maybe Neysmith. And I think Wright was thought to be way more athletic then he has ended up being, so it's fair to say he was recruited under that pretense.
 
It means there is something about them physically that makes them more recruitable then their actual, current skill set.
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This is probably the best explanation for this topic.
 
SoonerfanTU said:
Depends on the definition of athlete, I suppose, but I'd say the following:

Tiny
Willis
Warren
Allen

Athletic doesn't mean Carl Lewis. It means there is something about them physically that makes them more recruitable then their actual, current skill set. Tiny is athletic for his size. Willis is long. Warren is athletic in general. Allen is "big".

And my comment was meant in general, for guys like Patillo, and Maze, and Early, and maybe Neysmith. And I think Wright was thought to be way more athletic then he has ended up being, so it's fair to say he was recruited under that pretense.
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So just because they are an athlete they aren't a basketball player?

Not like Willie Warren came in as some unskilled guy and magically learned how to dribble and shoot at the high level he has showed before his freshman season started? I see where you are going with the need to balance the recruiting but I perceived your post as if it was an/the issue with this years team and I just don't agree with that.
 
thebigabd said:
Pledger and Willis wouldnt even get off the bench right now if a healthy Heskett were on roster.
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A healthy Heskett his freshman year didn't play much either. Hard to compare a guy's sophomore/junior years to a current freshman....it actually isn't fair IMO.
 
soonersam said:
So just because they are an athlete they aren't a basketball player?

Not like Willie Warren came in as some unskilled guy and magically learned how to dribble and shoot at the high level he has showed before his freshman season started? I see where you are going with the need to balance the recruiting but I perceived your post as if it was an/the issue with this years team and I just don't agree with that.
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Then where are the basketball skills for Wright, Allen, and Willis? Throw Hardrick in there too, might be the best example yet. The kid was offered b/c of how tall he was "suppose" to get. Obviously not his skill set.

And Warren isn't a perfect example. He has skills. He is just more raw then alot of guards rated where he was. He has a very inconsistent shot, and always will with that release. I don't see how he can get that off in the NBA. And as for him getting the rim, he doesn't do it well within the confines of the offense. He just about has to have a clearout situation for him to do that, which stalls the offense.

None of this would be an issue if it weren't half the team that was like this. I'm not saying don't recruit any athletes, or any kids that need development. I'm just saying you can't have half your roster made up of them, and you can't start 3-4 of them, and expect to be any good.
 
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So what there is a total of 4 kids that would be considered more athlete than basketball player? I don't see how that is the driving issue with the team's struggles.

Sure Warren isn't a perfect example of a basketball player but it's not like he is the perfect example of just an athlete out like Ray Willis. Yes his game is going to have issues translating to the NBA, but he has proven that it can be successful at the college level.

Half the team? Maybe my math is a little fuzzy but I thought 4 out of 12 (not counting Beau even though he is a scholarship player) was a third? I just don't get how Capel's recruiting is bad based on his tendency to go after just athletes. I would point more to recruiting mistakes in regards to grades and or attitude.
 
It has everything to do with lateral quickness!(with Cade) Good athlete!
 
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SoonerfanTU said:
Depends on the definition of athlete, I suppose, but I'd say the following:

Tiny
Willis
Warren
Allen

Athletic doesn't mean Carl Lewis. It means there is something about them physically that makes them more recruitable then their actual, current skill set. Tiny is athletic for his size. Willis is long. Warren is athletic in general. Allen is "big".

And my comment was meant in general, for guys like Patillo, and Maze, and Early, and maybe Neysmith. And I think Wright was thought to be way more athletic then he has ended up being, so it's fair to say he was recruited under that pretense.
Click to expand...

Tmg is an athlete just not an above the rim athlete... Noone in the big 12 can guard him... I think are athletes are:

tmg
Willie
crocker
Cade
gallon


But none of those guys are above the rim athletes and that's what we need
 
So true, and it shows in your post D and rebounding
 
I'm sufficiently confused.

Here is where I end up...I see a team like the Louisville squad that beat us in Blake's Freshman year and I wish we had those types of athletes; but then I think back to some of my favorite Kelvin squads and realize that, in spite of having too few athletes, we would have stayed in the game. Last year was fun to watch because between Blake and Juan, we were making a Top 10 play every time we stepped on the court. Last season we came close to putting it together, but absolutely agree that if we could get a couple more "above the rim" types, we could be solid. Oh, and guys with good hands.
 
This team doesn't need some sky walker to be good inside. It just needs somebody that is good. Whether that be some freak athlete that plays above the rim, or a smart kid that uses his body like Bookout, it really doesn't matter. Kevin Bookout would probably make this team 2-3 wins better at this point.
 
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