New ARENA as part of entertainment District

[BoulderSooner]

I am shocked the motion failed. Incredible news. OU needs to break ground immediately

even bad councilors understand math .. and get good legal advice .. this "vote" was not likely legal and could have cost the city of Norman hundreds of millions of dollars ..

 

[MJSooner]

even bad councilors understand math .. and get good legal advise .. this "vote" was not likely legal and could have cost the city of Norman hundreds of millions of dollars ..

Agreed. I've seen estimates that it could cost Norman up to $100-200M in damages, not counting legal fees.

Most of us are naturally cynical about this project being completed. We've waited 20+ years since conversations first started about upgrading OU's basketball arena with the LNC feasibility study, and Joe C and the OU admin has consistently failed OU basketball and OU fans during that time with its lack of urgency and commitment toward facilities.

But I'm becoming more and more optimistic Rock Creek and a new arena will get done this time. Ironically, more because of the developers and their leverage, not OU admin.

Pay more attention to the actions of the city, the city council, and the political leaders. Not their words. Their actions, of not bringing things to the council, not seconding, not voting, etc, all tell you they know the legal ramifications. Their words are nothing more than political positioning for their constituents. Including the Mayor.

 

[61sooner]

How many portal players are coming to Norman because we are getting a new arena? Facilities mean zero to transfers, it's show me the money.

 

[WTSooner]

How many portal players are coming to Norman because we are getting a new arena? Facilities mean zero to transfers, it's show me the money.

I agree about the facilities meaning nothing. Especially one that far off campus. I think it's about money, coaching/development, and opportunity.

 

[TINY]

How many portal players are coming to Norman because we are getting a new arena? Facilities mean zero to transfers, it's show me the money.

This is a bit short-sighted. If the arena is a great place to watch the game, then the fans will likely be more inclined to attend. If you have a better home environment, that will absolutely help land some future commitments. It could also help win some games by swaying officiating. OU hasn’t had a meaningful home court advantage since the 80s. Better viewing experience and more wins could equate to more money from BMDs.

 

[CMSOONER]

How many portal players are coming to Norman because we are getting a new arena? Facilities mean zero to transfers, it's show me the money.

None, but an arena that provides a better gameday experience generates more interest, which sells more tickets, which brings in more revenue, which provides more NIL resources.

We all know the LNC is old and the atmosphere is stale. Even when a good crowd is drawn. A new arena designed for basketball will be more exciting and should create a more electric atmosphere. Plus the influx of people into Norman (not campus) will help local business.

 

[WTSooner]

This is a bit short-sighted. If the arena is a great place to watch the game, then the fans will likely be more inclined to attend. If you have a better home environment, that will absolutely help land some future commitments. It could also help win some games by swaying officiating. OU hasn’t had a meaningful home court advantage since the 80s.

How many OU basketball fans are not atttending games because of the arena? I'd guess that is a very, very small number.

Attendance will improve initially because the arena will be the shiny new thing. That won't last long if the team isn't winning. OU fans aren't the way they are because of the facilities.

 

[TINY]

How many OU basketball fans are not atttending games because of the arena? I'd guess that is a very, very small number.

Attendance will improve initially because the arena will be the shiny new thing. That won't last long if the team isn't winning. OU fans aren't the way they are because of the facilities.

I know plenty of people who don’t like attending games at the LNC, regardless of the team being good or not. This was amplified when the thunder came and people actually saw what a venue should be like. LNC is a terrible viewing experience compared to many other venues.

 

[CMSOONER]

They need to crack down on season ticket use. If your not using your tickets for a certain % of games you lose them. Or create a system where season ticket holders are able to let the athletic department know they can't attend/tickets won't be used and allow the seats to be re-sold for the game. Especially if seating capacity is decreasing.

 

[MJSooner]

How many OU basketball fans are not atttending games because of the arena? I'd guess that is a very, very small number.

Attendance will improve initially because the arena will be the shiny new thing. That won't last long if the team isn't winning. OU fans aren't the way they are because of the facilities.

How many fans or potential fans ask/tell themselves, "I'm not going to this game or this game solely because of the arena"? Probably very few, if any.

How many fans or potential fans ask/tell themselves, "I don't think I'll go to this game as it's just not "fun" or electric at the arena. I'll just watch it on TV".

Probably a great number. Attendance shows it.

No one is saying a new arena is the single magic bullet, but the atmosphere definitely can attract fans, even if the team is not good. Just look at the Thunder, after coming off back-to-back 50-loss seasons, and being below .500, still averaged 18K per game in 2022-23. The attendance at OU isn't just a PM issue- actual butts in the seats have been an issue for a while. Even when the team has been good, and regardless of the coach. It's just exacerbated the last couple of years. The arena environment makes a difference.

But a more appealing arena, environment, ease of access, entertainment value, etc. does drive attendance, which impacts revenue, which impacts NIL and so many other things.

 

[WTSooner]

I know plenty of people who don’t like attending games at the LNC, regardless of the team being good or not. This was amplified when the thunder came and people actually saw what a venue should be like. LNC is a terrible viewing experience compared to many other venues.

And yet the women draw when they have a good team.

The story of LNC being the reason for the lack of support is just that, a story. Same with the other OU sports that play there. Packed when there is a team they want to support.

You know plenty of people. I don't know one person that LNC keeps away.

 

[WTSooner]

How many fans or potential fans ask/tell themselves, "I'm not going to this game or this game solely because of the arena"? Probably very few, if any.

How many fans or potential fans ask/tell themselves, "I don't think I'll go to this game as it's just not "fun" or electric at the arena. I'll just watch it on TV".

Probably a great number. Attendance shows it.

No one is saying a new arena is the single magic bullet, but the atmosphere definitely can attract fans, even if the team is not good. Just look at the Thunder, after coming off back-to-back 50-loss seasons, and being below .500, still averaged 18K per game in 2022-23. The attendance at OU isn't just a PM issue- actual butts in the seats have been an issue for a while. Even when the team has been good, and regardless of the coach. It's just exacerbated the last couple of years. The arena environment makes a difference.

But a more appealing arena, environment, ease of access, entertainment value, etc. does drive attendance, which impacts revenue, which impacts NIL and so many other things.

Using the Thunder as your example when they just won the Championship, have a great and young team, and have one of the best players in the NBA is not a good comparison.

The atmosphere at those games is what it is because of the team. Not because of the acoustics of the arena. Or the large walk ways, or comfy seats.

The Thunder, and NBA in general, do a better job of making the atmosphere "different" for NBA games. Nothing about LNC would prevent OU from doing some of those things if they wanted to. Most just aren't a part of the college game. Plenty of teams have great support and create a rowdy environment, and it has NOTHING to do with the arena itself.

 

[MJSooner]

Using the Thunder as your example when they just won the Championship, have a great and young team, and have one of the best players in the NBA is not a good comparison.

The atmosphere at those games is what it is because of the team. Not because of the acoustics of the arena. Or the large walk ways, or comfy seats.

The Thunder, and NBA in general, do a better job of making the atmosphere "different" for NBA games. Nothing about LNC would prevent OU from doing some of those things if they wanted to. Most just aren't a part of the college game. Plenty of teams have great support and create a rowdy environment, and it has NOTHING to do with the arena itself.

The Thunder had not won a championship in 2022-23. They were coming off of 22-50 and 24-58 seasons, finishing 40-42 and missing the playoffs for the 3rd straight year.

Yet they still had good attendance. Why? The arena and game-day environment, the reputation for entertainment value, and the hope of a developing team attracted fans to the arena and still averaged 18K. This, despite not being very good at basketball at the time.

And no, it's not because of the walkways or seats. But fans tend to go when those are more pleasant. I doubt the Thunder would want a brand new arena if it didn't matter where they played. But new arenas do bring better seats, aka revenue. New arenas bring excitement, which brings fans, which brings revenue opportunities.

Pretty naive to think new arenas/new amenities don't impact a program or franchise. If they didn't, universities, ADs, municipalities, coaches, and owners wouldn't want them.

 

[mict085]

The issue of season ticket holders not showing up should be addressed. There has to be a way for them to give those tickets away so other people can go to the games. I’m sure there are kids and other fans that would love to go to games and those tickets should be free since they’ve already been paid for. That would create a more grateful and happy fanbase and probably more loyal too. Plus it would mean having actual fans at the games. Theres no reason why we can’t do this other than greed and stubborn arrogance.

 

[jdizzle34]

The Thunder had not won a championship in 2022-23. They were coming off of 22-50 and 24-58 seasons, finishing 40-42 and missing the playoffs for the 3rd straight year.

Yet they still had good attendance. Why? The arena and game-day environment, the reputation for entertainment value, and the hope of a developing team attracted fans to the arena and still averaged 18K. This, despite not being very good at basketball at the time.

And no, it's not because of the walkways or seats. But fans tend to go when those are more pleasant. I doubt the Thunder would want a brand new arena if it didn't matter where they played. But new arenas do bring better seats, aka revenue. New arenas bring excitement, which brings fans, which brings revenue opportunities.

Pretty naive to think new arenas/new amenities don't impact a program or franchise. If they didn't, universities, ADs, municipalities, coaches, and owners wouldn't want them.

The Thunder's arena isn't in BFE. This new arena, while needed, won't help like the Paycom Center or new arena because, well, it may as well be a thousand miles from campus. The environment will still suck, but for a different reason. The LNC because it's an outdated mess, and this one because it is closer to Moore and South OKC than it is to the OU campus.

 

[TINY]

The Thunder's arena isn't in BFE. This new arena, while needed, won't help like the Paycom Center or new arena because, well, it may as well be a thousand miles from campus. The environment will still suck, but for a different reason. The LNC because it's an outdated mess, and this one because it is closer to Moore and South OKC than it is to the OU campus.

There are more Sooner fans in Moore and south OKC than in Norman.

 

[cbertus6]

The Thunder's arena isn't in BFE. This new arena, while needed, won't help like the Paycom Center or new arena because, well, it may as well be a thousand miles from campus. The environment will still suck, but for a different reason. The LNC because it's an outdated mess, and this one because it is closer to Moore and South OKC than it is to the OU campus.

I hear this argument all the time and, truly, do not understand it. Students that want to go to the game will go to the game. People acting like the stadium not being on campus is a huge detriment to students making it because the game is going to have to be driven to? LNC is pretty much driving distance from most students as it is. And it's still in Norman. It'll be like 10 minutes max to get from campus to the arena. It also opens up options for those living in Moore and OKC to make 6:00pm midweek games after work because it'll be easier accessed from the freeway.

And there are also other options. OU has discussed the potential of running busses back and forth from campus which would be a huge win. And it will be an entertainment district so there may be other things near the arena that are drawing students over there anyways. I'm not saying I think this is going to be a roaring success, but acting like it not being on campus is the worst thing to ever happen given the current lay of the land is weird to me.

 

[makila]

The Thunder had not won a championship in 2022-23. They were coming off of 22-50 and 24-58 seasons, finishing 40-42 and missing the playoffs for the 3rd straight year.

Yet they still had good attendance. Why? The arena and game-day environment, the reputation for entertainment value, and the hope of a developing team attracted fans to the arena and still averaged 18K. This, despite not being very good at basketball at the time.

And no, it's not because of the walkways or seats. But fans tend to go when those are more pleasant. I doubt the Thunder would want a brand new arena if it didn't matter where they played. But new arenas do bring better seats, aka revenue. New arenas bring excitement, which brings fans, which brings revenue opportunities.

Pretty naive to think new arenas/new amenities don't impact a program or franchise. If they didn't, universities, ADs, municipalities, coaches, and owners wouldn't want them.

As a thunder (and former ou) season ticket holder, I couldnt even give my tickets away for free when the team was poor. Obviously thats just my own experience. However the quality of the team seemed to directly correlate to number of butts in the seats.

I hope this arena gets used regularly. Have my suspicions it won't draw all the additional events the developers are claiming. There are multiple new arenas and stadiums being built, or planned to be, in about a 25-35 mile radius now.

And oh my the city will need to do a ton of work regarding traffic and access to i35 from Robinson to Tecumseh. Think they will need to figure out how to interface rock creek with i35 directly.

I am an engineer in the construction industry in norman. Work with ou (including athetlic facility projects) and the city on projects. Sadly my biggest concern has been the idea that the city will be able to execute a project of this scale, well.

Hope the project is a success. If its going to happen i want it to be a great experience for the end users, and residents. Have concerns based on my experiences. Hard for me to see it through a fans perspective due to work. *shrugs*

 

[61sooner]

Free bus service to games for students might help. My son organized it in the 1980s at Northwestern and it was a big success there and their basketball tradition is zero.
The loud crowds you see on tv are driven by the schools students. No students, no home court extra advantage.

 

[OklaSooners]

Developers plan construction phasing for Norman’s Rock Creek Entertainment District


The project features a planned 8,000-seat arena designed for concerts and University of Oklahomagymnastics, a billion-dollar project funded in a public-private partnership with $230 million in taxpayer funds. The remaining $800 million will come from private capital investment.