OU v UTSA
- Thread starter Oliver Hardy
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Sweetest OU Girl
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I have wondered about that Norm, but have not actually seen A&M this year. Is their player quality down?
Sweetest OU Girl
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The way North Texas played reminded me of the Blair system - and we did not handle it well.
To be clear I'm not saying we should have lost that game - but we did that time. I expect if we played NT 100 times we would win 95 of them.
To be clear I'm not saying we should have lost that game - but we did that time. I expect if we played NT 100 times we would win 95 of them.
giraffespots
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Actually I agree with Cal. There is something strange about the energy level of this year's team. I know I am not the only person noticing this as I have talked to other close followers of the team. not sure what it is, but it really makes me nervous.
Cal posted this:
I'd put Kay Kay or Pierre-Louis at the 5, Treece at the 4, Maddie at the 3, Little at the 2 and Gabbi at the point.the I'd expect 20 minutes each at the 5 and 35 minutes each from the other 4. When Goya comes back, she, Treece and Maddie would rotate at 3 and 4 with time decided by the matchups with the opponent.
IMO, I think when Cal said to put KK or Vivi in at the 5, he meant rotate those two at that position. I like that lineup, however, I would tweak it to be this (when/if Gioya comes back):
Point: Gabbi/Gioya
Guard: Peyton/Derica
Wing: Maddie/Shaya
Forward: Treece/EJ
Post: KK/Vivi
All five of these positions can be rotated with the two listed players, with very little drop off (slightly more drop off with Shaya and EJ) Then, we would be free to use LaNesia and T'ona whenever we needed them and the 1-2-3 positions should be able to shift around as needed. For example, when we need T'ona/LaNesia, we could shift Maddie to rotate with Treece.
Thus, 20 minutes for Kaylon, 20 minutes for Vivi.
giraffespots
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Who do we put in at the 5 position now...other than KK or Vivi?? Currently, KK averages 20.9 and Vivi averages 14.9. That leaves approximately 4.7 minutes.
Really, I don't think saying we should rotate the post position between the two literally means 20 minutes for each, no exception!
Really, I don't think saying we should rotate the post position between the two literally means 20 minutes for each, no exception!
Yes and with as much depth as we have this year, I expect subbing for most positions the rest of the season. McKenna, as she gains game conditioning, will begin to back up Maddie as the season goes along. With the player options we have I think we'll sometimes have KayKay/Vivi at post, McKenna at 4, Maddie at 3, Peyton at 2 and Gabbi/T'Ona at point. Most times we'll have the rotation lineup we've been starting with since the season began.
McKenna has played the 5 last season and I'm sure she can now, if needed. I think the 20.9 and 14.9 averages you mentioned are due more to the opponents and point spread at the end of the game now. I think thru conference season you'll see those 2 being closer to 40 min total versus the 35 min total it is now.
The "20 minutes each" were Cal's words, not mine. But I think the point Sweetest was making was that ViVi is not yet capable of playing 20 minutes in a game. KayKay will probably need to average as much as 25-30 minutes for now, or else Sherri will be forced to come up with a third player to rotate at the 5.
Sweetest OU Girl
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That is certainly part of the thought I had. But additionally it is simply true that KK is playing better than Vivi right now. I do not mean that as any slight of Vivi, but KK is a senior with years of experience, and is playing like she wants her final year to be as good as it possibly can be.
When you watch the games you see how really careful she is being about not getting fouls called, and she fights as hard as possible to not be denied - whether it is rebounding or scoring. Vivi will likely reach that level in the next year or two - but right now KK produces more - and Sherri sees that.
Vivi is critical to our success this year - and needs to continue to sub effectively for KK like has been happening so far. It was really good to see how well McKenna played Sunday too. I am sure we will see more of the 2 bigs game we saw against UTSA.
I agree with Tycat and Scrybe that we will continue with about the lineup and system we have been seeing so far unless someone either falls way off - or someone steps up their game and makes it clear she needs more minutes. It will be very interesting to see what happens if/when Gioya gets back in the lineup. It may take a while to get the rust cleaned off.
Sooner Cal
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I was at the game Sunday, you shouldn't be presumptive.
One can tell that Kay Kay gets tired, she fouls then puts her hands on her thighs. Both Kay Kay and Vivi need to be pushed to get 20 high activity minutes, whatever the reason. I like Kay Kay as a post player, but I'd rather have 20 great minutes than 30 average ones.
My point about a 3 guard offense is illustrated in 2010 with DR at the point, Whitney at the 2 and Nyeshia as the 3rd guard was perfect, because Nyeshia could do things neither Peyton nor Derrica can do. We had Thompson at the 4, who could play inside.
I'd consider Treece at the 4 and Maddie back to 3.
One can tell that Kay Kay gets tired, she fouls then puts her hands on her thighs. Both Kay Kay and Vivi need to be pushed to get 20 high activity minutes, whatever the reason. I like Kay Kay as a post player, but I'd rather have 20 great minutes than 30 average ones.
My point about a 3 guard offense is illustrated in 2010 with DR at the point, Whitney at the 2 and Nyeshia as the 3rd guard was perfect, because Nyeshia could do things neither Peyton nor Derrica can do. We had Thompson at the 4, who could play inside.
I'd consider Treece at the 4 and Maddie back to 3.
Sooner Cal
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I'm not convinced it's a lack of energy, though it certainly looked that way. I think it's more a lack of speed and quickness.
We'll find out in conference play.
We'll find out in conference play.
Sweetest OU Girl
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No doubt she gets tired. We have been discussing that since the season started. She has gotten a bit better conditioned, but has a ways to go. But she is certainly not fouling like she did in the past. I noticed the folks on foxok suggesting part of it is refs calling some on her because of the past (Chad smiled - but couldn't say anything about that) - but I am impressed about her self control and how well she has improved that part of her game.
giraffespots
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I guess my point is that I don't necessarily think we would lose a lot of games if we used KK and Vivi at the post and started Treece at the 4.
Yes, he said 20 min each, but that should be our goal. In reality, lots of factors go in to playing time. Both KK and Vivi get tired, point spread at the end of the game brings them out of the game, foul situation, etc. I guess I wasn't taking that "20 min. each" quite so literally.
The only real change suggested was to pull Derica out and put Treece in to start the game. I like that. One, because I think Derica is way more effective off the bench and two, because Derice is not physically as strong as, say Nyeshia, Amanda or even Sharane. Also, both players are about even in 3-pt consistency, so far. My opinion.
For the record, Vivi is my absolute favorite player (after Maddie, of course). But I DO agree that KK is producing more and is the better player at the moment. There is no question about that. I defiinitely would keep KK as the go-to post player. But I think Vivi will catch up by the end of the year and will be as good as, if not better next year than KK is right now.
My opinion may not mean much to anyone, but I think we need something different. We will see when conference time rolls around.
I read this board every single day, multiple times a day. I will say I think its a great board. I don't post often because you guys can be a bit harsh sometimes. (The response to Cal's post began with three negative statements. Then in the next sentence Cal was asked why he was so negative.) I don't even really know what possessed me to get into this conversation.
Yes, he said 20 min each, but that should be our goal. In reality, lots of factors go in to playing time. Both KK and Vivi get tired, point spread at the end of the game brings them out of the game, foul situation, etc. I guess I wasn't taking that "20 min. each" quite so literally.
The only real change suggested was to pull Derica out and put Treece in to start the game. I like that. One, because I think Derica is way more effective off the bench and two, because Derice is not physically as strong as, say Nyeshia, Amanda or even Sharane. Also, both players are about even in 3-pt consistency, so far. My opinion.
For the record, Vivi is my absolute favorite player (after Maddie, of course). But I DO agree that KK is producing more and is the better player at the moment. There is no question about that. I defiinitely would keep KK as the go-to post player. But I think Vivi will catch up by the end of the year and will be as good as, if not better next year than KK is right now.
My opinion may not mean much to anyone, but I think we need something different. We will see when conference time rolls around.
I read this board every single day, multiple times a day. I will say I think its a great board. I don't post often because you guys can be a bit harsh sometimes. (The response to Cal's post began with three negative statements. Then in the next sentence Cal was asked why he was so negative.) I don't even really know what possessed me to get into this conversation.
You make some really good points, though I have to say I don't agree that Vivi will be as good as, or even better than Kaylon by the end of the year. If she does improve to that level, it will be great for us; we'll probably win a ton of games.
As for "harsh," LOL! I learned a long time ago to not take every negative comment personally. This board can be tough at times, but we've got a bunch of knowledgeable posters and most are great Sooner fans. All you need to survive this board is some thick skin and a desire to discuss Sooner basketball.
You're a good poster, my long-neck friend. I hope you'll post more often in the future.
I don't think we'd lose many with KayKay, Vivi and McKenna starting either, but I think that lineup would slow team speed down even more and then you'd have to essentially rest KayKay and Vivi at the same time. Chad stated on coaches show last week that they are asking for strong 4 minute intervals with KayKay and Vivi thus the substitution pattern. McKenna is just now getting back into the flow of playing and will take a little longer to get in game shape. I suspect she'll be the first of the bench for the 4 position pretty soon, if she already isn't. We have a very versatile lineup which will give us many options, one which may include KayKay and Vivi on the floor at the same time. But I think those will be rare occasions if they happen. We'll be better with more speed on the floor than less.
I think, like last year, that both KayKay and Vivi will be stronger during the last half of the season. Remember, this is the first year of quarters, and it's going to take players some time to get conditioned to that format, especially the post position.
Excited to see this team grow! I hope Gioya can return and if she gets back to where she was, she will add a lot to this team.
Sweetest OU Girl
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I have not understood the idea that the quarters system requires better conditioning. What would make it seem that way?
35TangoTango
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It's 5 minutes between automatic time outs where it used to be 4.
giraffespots
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Well, I never imagined a lineup with both KK and Vivi on the floor at the same time. I think it is essential that they switch off in order to spell each other and to create a little mixup for the other team.
I feel like putting Treece in as the starting 4 then rotating EJ (as she gets more experience), and Maddie there. When we need some speed we can put in T'ona, rotate Maddie down. When we need height and strength, use Treece because with her in we still have that outside threat from both her and Maddie.
We really have a lot of options. I think using all our lineups throughout the game could be a nice changeup because teams would have to constantly adjust. We don't have to stick with 5 or 6 players all in one single role.
Also, the quarter system messes up the timeouts, both for called timeouts and tv timeouts. Makes the stretches between breaks longer and/or less frequent. (posted after the other replies posted)
I feel like putting Treece in as the starting 4 then rotating EJ (as she gets more experience), and Maddie there. When we need some speed we can put in T'ona, rotate Maddie down. When we need height and strength, use Treece because with her in we still have that outside threat from both her and Maddie.
We really have a lot of options. I think using all our lineups throughout the game could be a nice changeup because teams would have to constantly adjust. We don't have to stick with 5 or 6 players all in one single role.
Also, the quarter system messes up the timeouts, both for called timeouts and tv timeouts. Makes the stretches between breaks longer and/or less frequent. (posted after the other replies posted)
