OU vs #21 Baylor 3pm CST on ESPN2

[TINY]

That’s a good breakdown of yesterday. I guess I just feel like looking at the season as a whole, the offensive possessions in crunch time are WAY too stagnant and feature way too much standstill dribbling out top. And we are also drain way too much clock. I noticed something in Stillwater — when they led by double digits coming out of the last media timeout, they came out on their next two trips, moved the ball, and both times, took high quality shots in the first 15 seconds or so. They missed both, but that showed that their mindset was to stay aggressive and go for the kill. I’d like to see that approach from us if/when we ever lead late again. Don’t rush, but don’t go with the college basketball version of the prevent defense.

There is no doubt that late game coaching and execution has been sub par this year. I don’t think it’s far off, but it has to improve if we are going to turn the season around. That’s the crazy thing, if we just get 1 guy to be our closer we could go on a run imo.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I get the playmakers thing, but Baylor ran plays that got shooters open at the end and didn’t just trust their motion offense.

not sure I agree. One three was because CJ was just lost.
The other three was not a set play. It was just a lucky shot

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Lol you have to be a burner account.

And as for why I watch, it’s because I’m a diehard fan and I watch and cheer for my teams whether they are great, terrible, or somewhere in between. It doesn’t make me less of a fan than you that I refuse to pretend that we are good or making progress when we aren’t.

I'm dead serious. My main gripe with LK was his set plays. He was terrible with them...especially coming out of a TO.

And you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't claim this is the best conference in the history of all time and then say we aren't good when we play every team close.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

At the game and totally agree on pulling hot players. My biggest issue is Porters emotional tantrums and throwing fits. Not a good way to get your players to play better. Calm is better and save your tantrums for the refs.

I don't think you would have an issue with it if we were winning these close games so that is kind of weird that it is your biggest issue. My biggest issues is closing out games

 

[SoonerBounce13]

The thing is - they are running offense and sets. The issue is that teams are just switching 1-5 against OU, and OU doesn't really have the players skilled enough to take advantage consistently enough. Grant has to be the one to just make a play but he's just not that guy. If he's your #2 or #3 scorer in this league, you'd have a really good team.

Looking back at the Baylor game specifically -

• Baylor 56 OU 54 3:15 left in the game - Grant misses a wide open corner 3 after OU runs initial action to get Jalen Hill a high post touch.
• Next possession Baylor switches to their patented 1-3-1 zone. Tanner Groves gets a clean pass in the middle of the lane and misses baby hook. OU gets the offensive rebound, re-sets, and Jalen Hill (as instructed) occupies one corner, catches a pass, attacks the closeout, and makes a baseline floater to tie the game at 56-56.
• 1:37 left in the game, OU forces a stop and actually gets the defensive rebound, which allows them to push and get a transition layup for CJ Noland to take a 58-56 lead.
• Baylor makes a 3 to take a 59-58 lead, OU ball with 1:20 left.
• Next OU possession, OU runs a set for a post touch for Tanner. Initial action is defended well by Baylor and Tanner can't seal his man well enough. It would have been a tough post entry pass to make. Next action is for Grant to find a mismatch and have him make a play. Grant gets the ball at the top of the key with Baylor's shortest defender guarding him. Drives and throws up a layup that had no chance. OU could have ran around and set all kinds of screens/actions but Baylor was going to switch 1-5. Someone on OU had to make a 1 on 1 play.
• Flagler makes the step back 3 next possession to seal the game.

OU has had 3 NBA guards in the past 10 years - Buddy, Trae, Reaves. Lon's record when having one of those players 169 - 92 (.645). When not having Buddy, Trae, or Reaves: 26-36 (.419). If you replaced Grant, with Austin Reaves and kept everything else the same (players/coaches etc) OU definitely has 3-4 more wins.

In case anyone forgot how good Reaves was, here is a refresher. A lot of this stuff is iso or high PnR, not any complicated sets: k

Good post

just enjoy the ride guys

 

[SoonerBounce13]

That’s a good breakdown of yesterday. I guess I just feel like looking at the season as a whole, the offensive possessions in crunch time are WAY too stagnant and feature way too much standstill dribbling out top.

you say this after every game and you are wrong every time you say it.
Just because we didn't execute doesn't mean we didn't run plays

 

[WichitaSooner]

you say this after every game and you are wrong every time you say it.
Just because we didn't execute doesn't mean we didn't run plays

You just can't quit me. And to think, you said you were done with me last week.

We executed just what he calls many times. We have become very good at "stand and bounce it on the perimeter for 25 seconds, then hope for the best in the last five seconds."

You truly are amazing. No one else on this board, even Moser's defenders, pretends that his offensive approach doesn't change in the last few minutes of games.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

You truly are amazing. No one else on this board, even Moser's defenders, pretends that his offensive approach doesn't change in the last few minutes of games.

I really couldn't care less what others think. I know what I see and the majority of the time, the players are in spots to make plays and they don't make them. You claim all we do is stand around...yet that is demonstrably false.

You guys can't stand the results or PM's schemes so you don't look at things objectively. You only remember the times things don't work out and ignore the good that happens.

This board is unbearable nowadays because of a few posters. The main board has turned into a never ending game thread.

 

[Hollisp]

I really couldn't care less what others think. I know what I see and the majority of the time, the players are in spots to make plays and they don't make them. You claim all we do is stand around...yet that is demonstrably false.

You guys can't stand the results or PM's schemes so you don't look at things objectively. You only remember the times things don't work out and ignore the good that happens.

This board is unbearable nowadays because of a few posters. The main board has turned into a never ending game thread.

Been that way for 10+ years. It’s why I pretty much stopped posting years ago. I’m here to read 3/4 posters thoughts then go about my day.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I really couldn't care less what others think. I know what I see and the majority of the time, the players are in spots to make plays and they don't make them. You claim all we do is stand around...yet that is demonstrably false.

You guys can't stand the results or PM's schemes so you don't look at things objectively. You only remember the times things don't work out and ignore the good that happens.

This board is unbearable nowadays because of a few posters. The main board has turned into a never ending game thread.

You're right. Even though we would be 17-2 if games ended with five minutes left, our coach is constantly putting us in great spots in the last five minutes. I can recall tons of times where he springs guys for open shots, or gets us an easy layup on a BLOB at the end of a close game.

If this is demonstrably false, go back and look at every possession in the last five minutes of our losses and tell me how many times we ran good offense, compared to how many times he had Los or Grant stand at the top of the key for 20+ seconds before we even looked to score.

As for being objective, I don't care if a coach plays fast (Billy) or slow (Kelvin). I don't care if they are fiery (Kelvin) or outwardly calm (Lon). I was predisposed to like Moser because he was probably my top choice when Lon retired. The fact is, while he generally gets his team to play hard and remain competitive, he has shown major flaws in his two seasons. Yet you act as if the guy is the best Xs and Os coach around. I'd say you are the one who can't be objective if you can't see the late-game issues. It is so bad that even beat writers who cover the team tweet about it just about every game.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

If this is demonstrably false, go back and look at every possession in the last five minutes of our losses and tell me how many times we ran good offense, compared to how many times he had Los or Grant stand at the top of the key for 20+ seconds before we even looked to score.

well for starters, in principal I do not mind standing around until the last third of the shot clock and then running a play. That is not a bad strategy in itself and is very common when you have the lead or tied. For teams in the NBA, that is good offense. FOr teams that can execute well, it is good offense. I don't have an issue with this strategy in principal.

Yet you act as if the guy is the best Xs and Os coach around. I'd say you are the one who can't be objective if you can't see the late-game issues. It is so bad that even beat writers who cover the team tweet about it just about every game.

hyperbole doesn't do anything for me.

I see late game issues. I just don't see those issues as coaching.

Beat writers, in general, are worthless

 

[Soonerb98]

I'm not a coach or expert by any means, but I have a slightly different take on our late game issues. I feel like we have less margin for error, due to lack of athleticism and talent as others have mentioned, when compared to most big12 teams.
I get the "standing around" concerns on offense, but do we do that much more in the last 2 minutes than the first 38? I wonder, instead, if other teams have defensive (and offensive) adjustments up their sleeve that they can roll out late in the game and we don't? Alternatively, other teams have athletes that can find another gear in crunch time and we don't?
It seemed like on Saturday Baylor just stepped their game up (and hit a couple low % shots, to be fair) while we just kept playing at the same level. I've had the same impression in many of the other games we've blown late leads in the past 12 months.
We're clearly not our best in the closing minutes, but maybe we don't regress so much as we fail to match the level when other teams step up their game?

Just my 2 cents...

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I'm not a coach or expert by any means, but I have a slightly different take on our late game issues. I feel like we have less margin for error, due to lack of athleticism and talent as others have mentioned, when compared to most big12 teams.
I get the "standing around" concerns on offense, but do we do that much more in the last 2 minutes than the first 38? I wonder, instead, if other teams have defensive (and offensive) adjustments up their sleeve that they can roll out late in the game and we don't? Alternatively, other teams have athletes that can find another gear in crunch time and we don't?
It seemed like on Saturday Baylor just stepped their game up (and hit a couple low % shots, to be fair) while we just kept playing at the same level. I've had the same impression in many of the other games we've blown late leads in the past 12 months.
We're clearly not our best in the closing minutes, but maybe we don't regress so much as we fail to match the level when other teams step up their game?

Just my 2 cents...

Interesting

 

[WichitaSooner]

well for starters, in principal I do not mind standing around until the last third of the shot clock and then running a play. That is not a bad strategy in itself and is very common when you have the lead or tied. For teams in the NBA, that is good offense. FOr teams that can execute well, it is good offense. I don't have an issue with this strategy in principal.



hyperbole doesn't do anything for me.

I see late game issues. I just don't see those issues as coaching.

Beat writers, in general, are worthless

I agree, it can be good offense in the NBA, and for college teams with elite talent. I guess I figured that Moser should be smart enough to realize that he is coaching a college team that is clearly one of the least talented team in its league, and that is is therefore even more important to have constant ball and player movement.

As for beat writers, some are better than others, but they also are generally much more objective than fans because they don't care who wins games. I wish we had a beat writer like some of the ones who cover the Kansas teams, because if we did, they would have already written multiple articles with detailed looks at late-game strategy.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I'm not a coach or expert by any means, but I have a slightly different take on our late game issues. I feel like we have less margin for error, due to lack of athleticism and talent as others have mentioned, when compared to most big12 teams.
I get the "standing around" concerns on offense, but do we do that much more in the last 2 minutes than the first 38? I wonder, instead, if other teams have defensive (and offensive) adjustments up their sleeve that they can roll out late in the game and we don't? Alternatively, other teams have athletes that can find another gear in crunch time and we don't?
It seemed like on Saturday Baylor just stepped their game up (and hit a couple low % shots, to be fair) while we just kept playing at the same level. I've had the same impression in many of the other games we've blown late leads in the past 12 months.
We're clearly not our best in the closing minutes, but maybe we don't regress so much as we fail to match the level when other teams step up their game?

Just my 2 cents...

I think it definitely increases in the last four or five minutes. I was sitting a few rows up from the court at the KU game. We played very good offense in the second half, for 15 minutes, and it led to a 10-point lead. The last five minutes were much different. Even the KU fans around me noticed that once KU came alive, the OU approach shifted to "waste as much time as possible and hope the clock runs out before KU catches up."

 

[Swans]

The one glaring stat in three of our five conference losses is our inability to limit offensive rebounds and second chance points. Against Baylor we gave up 17 offensive boards and 30 second chance points.

Is rebounding effort, skill or luck.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

The one glaring stat in three of our five conference losses is our inability to limit offensive rebounds and second chance points. Against Baylor we gave up 17 offensive boards and 30 second chance points.

Is rebounding effort, skill or luck.

all three. Against Baylor, we seemed to have good effort and the ball just bounced their way

 

[Soonerguy06]

It's gotten to the point where I can't watch our games anymore, and I hate that. I just know that if the other team is in striking distance towards the end of the game, they will have a great shot at winning. Second season in a row now that we've lost way too many games that we should have won at the end of the game, starting with our season opening. When that happened I rolled my eyes and said, 'looks like not much has changed in the off season,' being sarcastic for the most part, but then B12 play started, and here we are again. I hope we pull it together in the home stretch and pull these games out, but I just don't have confidence in the Groves brothers. When we have a walk-on producing more than either of them on any given night, that says a lot. Will we be any better next season with some new players at that position? Is the grass greener? Probably not, who knows. We've got to get more athleticism down low in order to be at the top half of the B12, IMO. Will Moser be around much longer if he doesn't improve in this? I say after 4 seasons if this keeps happening it's time to move on.