OU vs #21 Baylor 3pm CST on ESPN2

[OUSKINS]

I’ve attended 4 of our 7 B12 games thus far and I’m 0-4; I was there again today about 8 rows back of the OU bench. I have very little to add that I didn’t address in the Stillwater epiphany thread, but today I just felt bad for them. I really did.

They played so hard. Battled, scrapped. Did their best. Moser even adjusted by giving Oweh a chance and trying some new lineups. The result was more of the same of course. Some bad luck too at the end, Baylor hit their last four three’s of the game and two of them were pretty tough shots. OU played about as well as they could today. Shame it didn’t go our way.

The team is just so limited. Not much more to say. We weren’t giving up offensive boards late due to poor fundamentals or positioning or effort. Their guys are just so much bigger and athletic than our guys. It’s so tough to overcome over the course of 48 minutes.

Hard not to feel like the season is over. At TCU/Bama has us staring down (11-10/2-6) and at that point I don’t think there is a way to recover.

 

[WaymanFan]

I’ve attended 4 of our 7 B12 games thus far and I’m 0-4; I was there again today about 8 rows back of the OU bench. I have very little to add that I didn’t address in the Stillwater epiphany thread, but today I just felt bad for them. I really did.

They played so hard. Battled, scrapped. Did their best. Moser even adjusted by giving Oweh a chance and trying some new lineups. The result was more of the same of course. Some bad luck too at the end, Baylor hit their last four three’s of the game and two of them were pretty tough shots. OU played about as well as they could today. Shame it didn’t go our way.

The team is just so limited. Not much more to say. We weren’t giving up offensive boards late due to poor fundamentals or positioning or effort. Their guys are just so much bigger and athletic than our guys. It’s so tough to overcome over the course of 48 minutes.

Hard not to feel like the season is over. At TCU/Bama has us staring down (11-10/2-6) and at that point I don’t think there is a way to recover.

OU needs more good fans like you, OUSKINS. Those who really do want the program to succeed appreciate your efforts...need more just like you!

 

[WTSooner]

Y'all go look at porter moser's coaching record. Hes like a .55 head coach. Hes almost already lost more games in 19 years coaching than sampson in 30 years. I'm off the PM train. At loyola even, he had like 2 good years. His usual products are like 18-12 teams. Hes gonna get next year at least, but man, this is brutal

Some of us said this when he was hired.

The guy had 17 seasons of HC experience before getting to OU. Out of those 17 seasons, 7 of them finished with his team being below .500 overall.

He literally had a run of 10 straight seasons before his last four at Loyola where his teams had conference records of under .500.

Moser didn't magically learn how to coach those last few years at Loyola. He got a little lucky, and probably owes a lot of that to Krutwig.

Also tired of reading that we don't have any talent. First, if that is true, that is on Moser. Second, it's not. Not saying we have the talent to win the Big 12 or compete for a Final Four, but we have more, ON PAPER, than several teams ahead of us in the standings. That's a coaching issue.

I never thought Moser was a good answer for us, and I still feel that way. Not saying if he manages to stay several more years he won't have some solid seasons, but he isn't going to get us anywhere close to where we want to be as a program. Beating up on some bad SEC teams next year isn't going to change that fact.

 

[Soonerinkc]

At the game and totally agree on pulling hot players. My biggest issue is Porters emotional tantrums and throwing fits. Not a good way to get your players to play better. Calm is better and save your tantrums for the refs.

There are times… self has no problem chewing some a$$ now and then… but again generally winning and being highly ranked most of the time takes the sting off a bit.

 

[Soonerinkc]

Lol you have to be a burner account.

And as for why I watch, it’s because I’m a diehard fan and I watch and cheer for my teams whether they are great, terrible, or somewhere in between. It doesn’t make me less of a fan than you that I refuse to pretend that we are good or making progress when we aren’t.

Truth…

 

[pnkranger]

Hard not to feel like the season is over. At TCU/Bama has us staring down (11-10/2-6) and at that point I don’t think there is a way to recover.

We’ be played the east part of our big 12 schedule.

We now play

Alabama
TCU x2
KU
KSU x2
@BU
@ISU
@UT
@WVU

Thank god for OSU and TT at home or we might be looking at 2-16

 

[Boom Soon]

We’ be played the east part of our big 12 schedule.

We now play

Alabama
TCU x2
KU
KSU x2
@BU
@ISU
@UT
@WVU

Thank god for OSU and TT at home or we might be looking at 2-16

Let's see. This team has been in every game this year. There's still a glimmer of hope, although just a glimmer. I think they could go 6-5 in the next ten games or so, which gives them 17 wins. This would put them almost in the exact same spot as last year. They would most definitely need atleast two wins in the Big 12 tourney. Would that be great? No. Is it possible? Yes.

@TCU- Lose
Alabama- Lose
OSU- Win
@WVU- Win
Kansas- Win
KSU- Win
@Texas- Lose
TTU- Win
@ISU- Lose
@KSU- Lose
TCU- Win

If Moser is worth his salt as a coach, the season won't go completely off the rails. There's still alot of basketball to be played.

 

[Boom Soon]

Some of us said this when he was hired.

The guy had 17 seasons of HC experience before getting to OU. Out of those 17 seasons, 7 of them finished with his team being below .500 overall.

He literally had a run of 10 straight seasons before his last four at Loyola where his teams had conference records of under .500.

Moser didn't magically learn how to coach those last few years at Loyola. He got a little lucky, and probably owes a lot of that to Krutwig.

Also tired of reading that we don't have any talent. First, if that is true, that is on Moser. Second, it's not. Not saying we have the talent to win the Big 12 or compete for a Final Four, but we have more, ON PAPER, than several teams ahead of us in the standings. That's a coaching issue.

I never thought Moser was a good answer for us, and I still feel that way. Not saying if he manages to stay several more years he won't have some solid seasons, but he isn't going to get us anywhere close to where we want to be as a program. Beating up on some bad SEC teams next year isn't going to change that fact.

Which OU player not named Grant would start on any other Big 12 team? I'm genuinely curious who you think.

I think there's a chance Moser (even from last year) underestimated how athletic the Big 12 is. He could have possibly thought he could still get away with lesser athletes, who hustle and play good defense. Obviously the team needs that, but you gotta have supreme athletes to compete in the Big 12. Look back in years past. There was debate whether Reaves was athletic enough to play in the Big 12 and he's absolutely lightyears ahead of any guard on the current roster. Same with Harmon and Williams. Those dudes put Cortes, and Noland to shame athletically. I would say Harkless or Gibson is just as athletic as Grant (although not as good).

Moser is guaranteed to get atleast one more year. I hope he sees what it is going to take to truly compete in the Big 12 next year.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Let's see. This team has been in every game this year. There's still a glimmer of hope, although just a glimmer. I think they could go 6-5 in the next ten games or so, which gives them 17 wins. This would put them almost in the exact same spot as last year. They would most definitely need atleast two wins in the Big 12 tourney. Would that be great? No. Is it possible? Yes.

@TCU- Lose
Alabama- Lose
OSU- Win
@WVU- Win
Kansas- Win
KSU- Win
Texas- Lose
TTU- Win
@ISU- Lose
@KSU- Lose
TCU- Win

If Moser is worth his salt as a coach, the season won't go completely off the rails. There's still alot of basketball to be played.

If they spotted us a 10-pt lead and the ball with five minutes remaining in all those games, we still wouldn’t win six of them. We won’t go 1-11 or 2-10 … even I’m not that pessimistic. But there is no shot we are sweeping our remaining conference home games. Absolutely zero shot. Realistically, I think we will scrape together three, maybe four more regular season wins. That would mean 14-17 or 15-16. 2017 was a disaster of a season, but was at least partially understandable given the injury to Woodard and all the studs who graduated the previous year. If this team finishes under .500, despite staying healthy, returning tons of players from last season, and adding Grant and Los, it’ll be as disappointing a season as we’ve had in ages and a massive step back.

 

[thebigabd]

@TCU- Lose
Alabama- Lose
OSU- Win
@WVU- Lose
Kansas- Lose
KSU- Lose
Texas- Win
TTU- Win
@ISU- Lose
@KSU- Lose
TCU- Win

4-7 down the stretch.. Although this team continues to surprise with how competitive it is. Could do much better, or could do worse.

 

[mict085]

@TCU- Lose
Alabama- Lose
OSU- Win
@WVU- Lose
Kansas- Lose
KSU- Lose
Texas- Win
TTU- Win
@ISU- Lose
@KSU- Lose
TCU- Win

4-7 down the stretch.. Although this team continues to surprise with how competitive it is. Could do much better, or could do worse.

Tech and osu at home are the only games where we “should” win. The rest are long shots. Once the losses start piling up, it will snowball and get ugly. We’ve already played the easier part of the conference schedule and lost.

 

[AdaSooner]

Tech and osu at home are the only games where we “should” win. The rest are long shots. Once the losses start piling up, it will snowball and get ugly. We’ve already played the easier part of the conference schedule and lost.

To make matters worse, our offense has hit a slump that is making it almost impossible to score points. Our opponents know that if they double team Sherfield when he’s got the ball and double down on Hill inside, the other players can’t beat them.

Our players are still playing hard on defense, but it’s all too clear this team is struggling mightily on offense. Appears to me their struggles are a combination of poor coaching and poor execution. But, one thing is certain, something has to change or this long, painful season will only get worse.

 

[CoachTalk]

10 points away from 1st! Wild ride!

 

[OUSKINS]

To make matters worse, our offense has hit a slump that is making it almost impossible to score points. Our opponents know that if they double team Sherfield when he’s got the ball and double down on Hill inside, the other players can’t beat them.

Our players are still playing hard on defense, but it’s all too clear this team is struggling mightily on offense. Appears to me their struggles are a combination of poor coaching and poor execution. But, one thing is certain, something has to change or this long, painful season will only get worse.

I just don’t know what CAN change. Like we have all said— the team seems to be playing as hard as they can. I don’t think the defense could possibly get better. They don’t always get stops, but it’s usually because of their lack of physical abilities— not effort or coaching. Offensively? I don’t know. It’s bad so I GUESS it could get better, but I really can’t imagine what they can do to make any sort of impactful change.

 

[AdaSooner]

I just don’t know what CAN change. Like we have all said— the team seems to be playing as hard as they can. I don’t think the defense could possibly get better. They don’t always get stops, but it’s usually because of their lack of physical abilities— not effort or coaching. Offensively? I don’t know. It’s bad so I GUESS it could get better, but I really can’t imagine what they can do to make any sort of impactful change.

Agreed. The only thing I can think of is to actually execute a play, even if it’s ineffective. Running the weave twenty feet from the basket until the shot clock expires or the only shot we have left is a prayer as the buzzer sounds is driving all of us crazy.

Moser had the reputation as a fundamentally sound coach at Chicago Loyola. He has also surrounded himself with an impressive staff at OU. Is he too stubborn to listen to their advice? Continuing to make the same mistakes is unacceptable in my book!

 

[WichitaSooner]

I just don’t know what CAN change. Like we have all said— the team seems to be playing as hard as they can. I don’t think the defense could possibly get better. They don’t always get stops, but it’s usually because of their lack of physical abilities— not effort or coaching. Offensively? I don’t know. It’s bad so I GUESS it could get better, but I really can’t imagine what they can do to make any sort of impactful change.

See, to me, the answer is painfully obvious. Actually try and run offense and score at the end of games. For all our other shortcomings, if we could just get to reasonably competent in the way we play offense late in games, we would already have three or four more wins, possibly more. And it is all based on coaching decisions. I don’t can’t how much or how little talent we have, the approach Moser takes at the end of games is almost guaranteed to fail.

 

[allday92]

See, to me, the answer is painfully obvious. Actually try and run offense and score at the end of games. For all our other shortcomings, if we could just get to reasonably competent in the way we play offense late in games, we would already have three or four more wins, possibly more. And it is all based on coaching decisions. I don’t can’t how much or how little talent we have, the approach Moser takes at the end of games is almost guaranteed to fail.

The thing is - they are running offense and sets. The issue is that teams are just switching 1-5 against OU, and OU doesn't really have the players skilled enough to take advantage consistently enough. Grant has to be the one to just make a play but he's just not that guy. If he's your #2 or #3 scorer in this league, you'd have a really good team.

Looking back at the Baylor game specifically -

• Baylor 56 OU 54 3:15 left in the game - Grant misses a wide open corner 3 after OU runs initial action to get Jalen Hill a high post touch.
• Next possession Baylor switches to their patented 1-3-1 zone. Tanner Groves gets a clean pass in the middle of the lane and misses baby hook. OU gets the offensive rebound, re-sets, and Jalen Hill (as instructed) occupies one corner, catches a pass, attacks the closeout, and makes a baseline floater to tie the game at 56-56.
• 1:37 left in the game, OU forces a stop and actually gets the defensive rebound, which allows them to push and get a transition layup for CJ Noland to take a 58-56 lead.
• Baylor makes a 3 to take a 59-58 lead, OU ball with 1:20 left.
• Next OU possession, OU runs a set for a post touch for Tanner. Initial action is defended well by Baylor and Tanner can't seal his man well enough. It would have been a tough post entry pass to make. Next action is for Grant to find a mismatch and have him make a play. Grant gets the ball at the top of the key with Baylor's shortest defender guarding him. Drives and throws up a layup that had no chance. OU could have ran around and set all kinds of screens/actions but Baylor was going to switch 1-5. Someone on OU had to make a 1 on 1 play.
• Flagler makes the step back 3 next possession to seal the game.

OU has had 3 NBA guards in the past 10 years - Buddy, Trae, Reaves. Lon's record when having one of those players 169 - 92 (.645). When not having Buddy, Trae, or Reaves: 26-36 (.419). If you replaced Grant, with Austin Reaves and kept everything else the same (players/coaches etc) OU definitely has 3-4 more wins.

In case anyone forgot how good Reaves was, here is a refresher. A lot of this stuff is iso or high PnR, not any complicated sets: k

 

[allday92]

See, to me, the answer is painfully obvious. Actually try and run offense and score at the end of games. For all our other shortcomings, if we could just get to reasonably competent in the way we play offense late in games, we would already have three or four more wins, possibly more. And it is all based on coaching decisions. I don’t can’t how much or how little talent we have, the approach Moser takes at the end of games is almost guaranteed to fail.

The thing is - they are running offense and sets. The issue is that teams are just switching 1-5 against OU, and OU doesn't really have the players skilled enough to take advantage consistently enough. Grant has to be the one to just make a play but he's just not that guy. If he's your #2 or #3 scorer in this league, you'd have a really good team.

Looking back at the Baylor game specifically -

• Baylor 56 OU 54 3:15 left in the game - Grant misses a wide open corner 3 after OU runs initial action to get Jalen Hill a high post touch.
• Next possession Baylor switches to their patented 1-3-1 zone. Tanner Groves gets a clean pass in the middle of the lane and misses baby hook. OU gets the offensive rebound, re-sets, and Jalen Hill (as instructed) occupies one corner, catches a pass, attacks the closeout, and makes a baseline floater to tie the game at 56-56.
• 1:37 left in the game, OU forces a stop and actually gets the defensive rebound, which allows them to push and get a transition layup for CJ Noland to take a 58-56 lead.
• Baylor makes a 3 to take a 59-58 lead, OU ball with 1:20 left.
• Next OU possession Baylor is back in man to man, switching 1-5 ->OU runs a set for a post touch for Tanner. Initial action is defended well by Baylor and Tanner can't seal his man well enough. It would have been a tough post entry pass to make. Next action is for Grant to find a mismatch and have him make a play. Grant gets the ball at the top of the key with Baylor's shortest defender guarding him. Drives and throws up a layup that had no chance. OU could have ran around and set all kinds of screens/actions but Baylor was going to switch 1-5. Someone on OU had to make a 1 on 1 play.
• Flagler makes the step back 3 next possession to seal the game.
• Baylor had 30 second chance points to OU's 12. That's the game and also the reason OU can't play in transition on offense.

OU has had 3 NBA guards in the past 10 years - Buddy, Trae, Reaves. Lon's record when having one of those players 169 - 92 (.645). When not having Buddy, Trae, or Reaves: 26-36 (.419). If you replaced Grant, with Austin Reaves and kept everything else the same (players/coaches etc) OU definitely has 3-4 more wins.

In case anyone forgot how good Reaves was, here is a refresher. A lot of this stuff is iso or high PnR, not any complicated sets:

 

[allday92]

I forgot to add....To Lon's credit, he was great at developing guards. If Moser sticks around and so do players like Uzan (and maybe even Grant), we'll see how they are next year. But talent is talent, and it's a good sign Porter has signed 4 top 100 kids in 2 years. Something not done since Jeff Capel.

 

[WichitaSooner]

The thing is - they are running offense and sets. The issue is that teams are just switching 1-5 against OU, and OU doesn't really have the players skilled enough to take advantage consistently enough. Grant has to be the one to just make a play but he's just not that guy. If he's your #2 or #3 scorer in this league, you'd have a really good team.

Looking back at the Baylor game specifically -

• Baylor 56 OU 54 3:15 left in the game - Grant misses a wide open corner 3 after OU runs initial action to get Jalen Hill a high post touch.
• Next possession Baylor switches to their patented 1-3-1 zone. Tanner Groves gets a clean pass in the middle of the lane and misses baby hook. OU gets the offensive rebound, re-sets, and Jalen Hill (as instructed) occupies one corner, catches a pass, attacks the closeout, and makes a baseline floater to tie the game at 56-56.
• 1:37 left in the game, OU forces a stop and actually gets the defensive rebound, which allows them to push and get a transition layup for CJ Noland to take a 58-56 lead.
• Baylor makes a 3 to take a 59-58 lead, OU ball with 1:20 left.
• Next OU possession Baylor is back in man to man, switching 1-5 ->OU runs a set for a post touch for Tanner. Initial action is defended well by Baylor and Tanner can't seal his man well enough. It would have been a tough post entry pass to make. Next action is for Grant to find a mismatch and have him make a play. Grant gets the ball at the top of the key with Baylor's shortest defender guarding him. Drives and throws up a layup that had no chance. OU could have ran around and set all kinds of screens/actions but Baylor was going to switch 1-5. Someone on OU had to make a 1 on 1 play.
• Flagler makes the step back 3 next possession to seal the game.
• Baylor had 30 second chance points to OU's 12. That's the game and also the reason OU can't play in transition on offense.

OU has had 3 NBA guards in the past 10 years - Buddy, Trae, Reaves. Lon's record when having one of those players 169 - 92 (.645). When not having Buddy, Trae, or Reaves: 26-36 (.419). If you replaced Grant, with Austin Reaves and kept everything else the same (players/coaches etc) OU definitely has 3-4 more wins.

In case anyone forgot how good Reaves was, here is a refresher. A lot of this stuff is iso or high PnR, not any complicated sets:

That’s a good breakdown of yesterday. I guess I just feel like looking at the season as a whole, the offensive possessions in crunch time are WAY too stagnant and feature way too much standstill dribbling out top. And we are also drain way too much clock. I noticed something in Stillwater — when they led by double digits coming out of the last media timeout, they came out on their next two trips, moved the ball, and both times, took high quality shots in the first 15 seconds or so. They missed both, but that showed that their mindset was to stay aggressive and go for the kill. I’d like to see that approach from us if/when we ever lead late again. Don’t rush, but don’t go with the college basketball version of the prevent defense.