OU vs OSU

[sybarite]

The indecision on the Patton play was simply because it was not clear, especially enough to overturn a call. It appeared that she may have thrown the ball back in before touching down. But, it wasn't absolute.

I found it interesting that Patton was allowed to strip a dribbler twice on a breakaway just as they began to go up for a layup. Really? Twice, stripped it from behind without fouling, even keeping it in play? I wanted to revisit both of those calls.

Jensen was a force. But, she was also shoving her way into position. She was over the back several times, but it tended to be on Gabbi, and they just assumed that she had gotten it cleanly because of her height relative to that of Gabbi. Fact, she had displaced Gabbi.

There were two fouls called on Maddie that were clean blocks. The announcers also addressed those. But, there was no overturned call on either of those. In fact, they weren't subject to review, and they weren't.

Maybe, we'll meet again in the Big Twelve tournament and see if OSU can hit five threes in the fourth.

 

[O-State2009]

The indecision on the Patton play was simply because it was not clear, especially enough to overturn a call. It appeared that she may have thrown the ball back in before touching down. But, it wasn't absolute.

I found it interesting that Patton was allowed to strip a dribbler twice on a breakaway just as they began to go up for a layup. Really? Twice, stripped it from behind without fouling, even keeping it in play? I wanted to revisit both of those calls.

Jensen was a force. But, she was also shoving her way into position. She was over the back several times, but it tended to be on Gabbi, and they just assumed that she had gotten it cleanly because of her height relative to that of Gabbi. Fact, she had displaced Gabbi.

There were two fouls called on Maddie that were clean blocks. The announcers also addressed those. But, there was no overturned call on either of those. In fact, they weren't subject to review, and they weren't.

Maybe, we'll meet again in the Big Twelve tournament and see if OSU can hit five threes in the fourth.

Jensen shoved her way into position the same way VPL lowered her shoulder multiple times into Jensen to create space. I don't recall a specific play in which Jensen displaced Gabbi for a rebound. She did grab a few over her.

Patton did not keep the ball in play on the last block from behind. In fact, Oklahoma scored the go ahead goal on the ensuing inbounds play. I am not sure she fouled or not, but was possibly fouled on a reach in that led to that breakaway.

Coleman was also called for a foul on Manning early in the game in which there was no contact. Maddie cut to the basket and Coleman followed her through going for the steal, Maddie stumbled and flipped a shot in and was given a 3 point opportunity.
Coleman was also called for a fifth foul that was obviously Loecker reaching in on a driving Manning.

 

[sybarite]

Jensen shoved her way into position the same way VPL lowered her shoulder multiple times into Jensen to create space. I don't recall a specific play in which Jensen displaced Gabbi for a rebound. She did grab a few over her.

Patton did not keep the ball in play on the last block from behind. In fact, Oklahoma scored the go ahead goal on the ensuing inbounds play. I am not sure she fouled or not, but was possibly fouled on a reach in that led to that breakaway.

Coleman was also called for a foul on Manning early in the game in which there was no contact. Maddie cut to the basket and Coleman followed her through going for the steal, Maddie stumbled and flipped a shot in and was given a 3 point opportunity.
Coleman was also called for a fifth foul that was obviously Loecker reaching in on a driving Manning.

You need to look at that foul again. The foul was on a trip. I don't know that Maddie should have been shooting free throws since the trip occurred well before the shot. But, she was falling because of a trip, throwing it up on the way down.

 

[threepointshooter]

It would probably be beneficial if you would go back and watch a replay of that last shot. You will see that what happened is KK got the ball on the right side of the lane and started her move. A player who plays down there understands the angle for the shot based on where she starts the move from. However, in this case, In the middle of her move, Jones slams into her very hard and knocks her about 2-3 feet from her position, so when she puts the shot up, it ends up a bit to the left of where it needed to hit the backboard. It is likely a good shot had she not been fouled - again not just a small foul but a very hard rough foul. Had she not been fouled - or if the foul been called, OU would likely have won.

It is interesting that a minute or so before that, if you recall the moment when Little was called for a foul on Jensen, when both crashed to the court under the OSU basket. The announcers showed the replay and pointed out that Little never touched Jensen. What actually happened is Jones (yes, once again Jones) ran into Little - very, very hard - and knocked her several feet sideways and onto the court. Jones committed the foul, Little did not, but Little was charged with the foul.

Jones is a ruffian.

All I ask if anyone thinks those two points are just complaining about bad officiating, go back and look at the plays in slow motion before you speak.

But don't blame KK for this loss unless you are a big enough person to also blame the Officials and Jones. Those are the ones who made errors on the final shot by KK.

As you requested, I went back and reviewed the plays you mentioned.

1. You should definitely go back and watch the replay of KK's final shot again.

I'll provide video of the final shot by KK so we can all judge for ourselves. Not only is there no "very hard rough foul," there's no foul at all. And Jones is nowhere near KK. If anything KK just rushed the shot.

Here is a video of KK's final shot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePAo4zx9Kns

Completely serious question.....How did you come up with Jones knocking KK 2-3 feet from her position on that shot?

2. I also looked for Jones running into Little "very, very hard" and instead I found Jones and Gabbi running into each other as both were watching the shot taken by an OSU player. I'm sorry, but I don't see the actions of a "ruffian" on that play either.

Here is a video of the contact between Gabbi and Jones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyHhwCwyRj0


I wouldn't want opposing fans labeling our players as "ruffians" or as some kind of rough, dirty players with nothing to back it up. So I don't think it's fair to do that to our opponents either. Even if they are from our rival.

This was a hard fought game between two teams of kids who really wanted that W. Why try to taint a kid's reputation like that?

 

[womenssports]

No, you simply do not understand what it is she is being paid to do.

David Boren and Joe C. do - and they are the ones who get to decide. And they think she brings things to the table that are worth more than what lots of other coaches are bringing to the table.

Think again about the fact that "overpaid" is silly talk. The person paying gets to decide that - and as has been pointed out - many, many people are overpaid in any reasonable evaluation of their worth - except in the minds and value systems of those doing the paying.

If you disagree with her salary you need to admit that both gentleman are failing and need to be fired.

I do not think that by the way.

RE the bold: Not true. Norm was responding to your saying we should stop talking about people being over paid, etc. and that if it was fair teachers would be be paid more. (a paraphrase of what you posted) I was agreeing that that was not what was being discussed but rather the discussion was were the salaries being paid indicative of teams' performances.

As I have said numerous times on here, that Sherri will not be fired (will add that her salary won't be reduced nor will she be fired, well unless something changes) because she is the face of OUWBB, one of the faces of OU, and to some degree one of the a national faces of college WBB.

AND I wouldn't begin to talk about the inequities in the economy on here.
I address those political issues which I find relevant to wbb and OUWBB and have been told that by doing so I am going to lose friends. I don't consider this a place where I have friends, nor do I come here to make friends or enemies for that matter. However, if I believe a topic is relevant I will discuss it no matter who agrees with me or if no one agrees with me. To
me some things need to be addressed. I do try to do it in a way which is not personal, though I may point out that a statement is bigoted. BUT the inequities of pay, I would have to try not to write a thesis and feel it would not be appropriate for this board. What you said was appropriate in a way but just not responsive to the posts.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

My question to you: Did YOU go back and watch the game? If so, you need to re-check your facts.

On the last shot, Jones of OSU was guarding Manning at the FT line. Katelyn Loecker was the Cowgirl that ended up guarding Williams. She moved her feet with Williams as she made her move. If you can find "again not just a small foul but a very hard rough foul" on that play then you were watching something else, especially since you said it was on Jones. Loecker and Jones are not easily confused.

And you say a "minute or so before that" in reference to the foul where Jensen was undercut. However, that foul happened early in the 4th quarter (with 7:06 remaining according to the play-by-play). The foul was on Ortiz, not Little as you state. If you watch that play, Ortiz did hit Jensen causing her to fall. There was first contact between Jones & Ortiz (once again, not Little). I don't see a replay angle that shows Jones running into anyone "very very hard".

I have the game saved & have just gone back and re-watched it. Obviously our views are going to differ based on school allegiance. However, I think many of your fellow Oklahoma fans would be able to go back and watch and not see a very hard foul against Williams on the last play. I don't think she was displaced by any contact either.

At the 1:34 mark of the 4th quarter, Oklahoma got a friendly call from Tina Napier. Jensen had tapped an offensive rebound towards the sideline. Patton ran and saved the ball to Jensen in the corner. However, Tina ruled that Patton had come down out of bounds. They reviewed the play and determined that to be the case. But even the Sooner Sports Network commentators thought it would be OSU ball after watching the replay.

And you keep saying OSU hit six 3-pointers in the 4th quarter. They, in fact, only hit six all game; five in the 4th quarter.

I agree with you on the Patton call. I was surprised they did not overturn that out of bounds call. It looked clear enough for me from one of the views to think she hit it back in before her foot hit out of bounds. Sitting at the game it appeared all night that there was an issue between the officials. Body language and other indications. When the male official tried to suggest Patton was possibly not out of bounds, Napier really brushed him off in body language - maybe not liking to be challenged. She and Cameron then went to the monitor - leaving the male official out of it. Maybe he was trying to settle down the offended feelings if that is actually what was going on.

And you are right, that it was 45 that pushed KK with her arms on that last play. Loecker had already fouled Little at the 10.8 mark - and has her arms completely wrapped around Little's mid section - with her hand completely against the 10 on Little's back - even though Loecker is standing in front of Peyton. That is as classic a violation for interfering with free movement of the offensive player as you will ever see. Keep in mind that is an absolute requirement that officials have been instructed to enforce without exception this year. Tina Napier is looking DIRECTLY at them with absolutely no obstruction. Not calling that foul is a total violation of the principles and requirements of officiating. Why she did not call it raises huge questions about her officiating. I think the original plan for the play was for Gabbi to toss it to Peyton in the lane for a layup - note Gabbi dribbling across the top of the key watching Peyton. The Loecker foul messed that up so they went to the second option - KK. So now 45 switches to KK as she runs across the back of the lane, hits her right on the breast - striking the 42 on the front of KK's jersey first with her left hand, then when KK slides on past with her right hand (Both hands and arms striking KK on the breast and 42 numeral). Then when KK turns back to her right to jump and shoot 45 hits her non-shooting arm as she is shooting.

In an aside I refer to Loecker as a living moving screen violator. It has become part of her game with certain officials who simply refuse to call that violation. Nina Davis has perfected that too - with certain officials.

On the Jones foul on Ortiz (you are right it wasn't Little - I was recalling it without looking back at it) you can see it best from the 2nd review - from the out of bounds under the basket camera view. Jones (#20) comes running from near mid court and doesn't get stopped in time to avoid running into Ortiz. Ortiz goes crashing head first, sliding all the way across the free throw lane. Jensen has jumped off the ground and Ortiz sails under her - maybe a slight arm brush across her side as they sail past each other. The announcers mentioned that Ortiz and Jensen came close but missed each other.

Another interesting moment was when Gioya stole the ball near midcourt from Patton. It is a clean steal, but then Patton fouls Gioya trying to get it back. Patton's arm is all the way around and across Gioya's mid-section. Napier does not call it, even though that foul is called nearly 100% of the time when it happens. Who knows - perhaps Tina was trying to help OU since it appeared Gioya would have an easy layup. But then when an obviously embarrassed Patton (as we all have seen millions of times kids hate getting it stolen like that and retaliate with frustration to save face) tries to knock the ball out of bounds she hits Gioya across the arm - across that bandage Gioya has on. But now Tina Napier is blocked from seeing what has happened because she has been a bit slower running down the court than the players so she has to guess what happened. She "guesses" in a way that favors Patton, making it two fouls on Patton in that one action, neither of which gets called. Once again this is Tina Napier who refuses to call either foul.

The purpose of the discussion was not so much to point out the poor officiating as to point out that lots of errors happened other than KK missing a shot. I personally hated that for KK. It is clear that a number of officials have issues with KK. I'm not sure why. They call her very, very closely even though their general approach is to not call things closely. Now note I said some officials. KK does fine with most officials - but a few foul her out every time they see her on the court. Some other folks have figured that out also. The person 2 rows behind me said it when the officials came out for this game: "I can't believe they assigned this crew. KK will spend most of the night on the bench". And she did.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

RE the bold: Not true. Norm was responding to your saying we should stop talking about people being over paid, etc. and that if it was fair teachers would be be paid more. (a paraphrase of what you posted) I was agreeing that that was not what was being discussed but rather the discussion was were the salaries being paid indicative of teams' performances.

As I have said numerous times on here, that Sherri will not be fired (will add that her salary won't be reduced nor will she be fired, well unless something changes) because she is the face of OUWBB, one of the faces of OU, and to some degree one of the a national faces of college WBB.

AND I wouldn't begin to talk about the inequities in the economy on here.
I address those political issues which I find relevant to wbb and OUWBB and have been told that by doing so I am going to lose friends. I don't consider this a place where I have friends, nor do I come here to make friends or enemies for that matter. However, if I believe a topic is relevant I will discuss it no matter who agrees with me or if no one agrees with me. To
me some things need to be addressed. I do try to do it in a way which is not personal, though I may point out that a statement is bigoted. BUT the inequities of pay, I would have to try not to write a thesis and am feel it would not be appropriate for this board. What you said was appropriate in a way but just not responsive to the posts.

Sorry WS, I was not directing that comment toward you but to the general view that Sherri was overpaid. She is - as I said - but not for the reasons some suggest.

 

[womenssports]

She hadn't played well defensively (& thusly the foul trouble), which, considering OU was going for the game winning hoop at that time, is irrelevant. She had 8 points in all of 14 minutes on the court. That's not the biggest sample size obviously, but if you project that over say, the 30 minutes or so that she's have been around had she not had said foul problems at the other end of the court, she'd have been in the 16-18 point neighborhood for the game. Not Hield territory mind you, but certainly not struggling either.

I'm not in the Sherri is perfect camp that some have tended to be in around here; she's human (as we all are) & has made some mistakes. I just don't believe that going to KK in that situation was one of them. It's like what was pointed out on the call-in show last night; if that shot by Cousins hadn't gone in & LSU won last weekend, Lon would've been crucified by the naysayers for not giving his best player the ball in crunch time, but since it did, LK's John Wooden reincarnate. Sherri went with a play that got one of (if not the) her most dependable scorers on her team a good look at a short shot & since it didn't go in, let the SC roasting commence.

Well, you were talking about her getting KK the game winning shot. I was talking about KK being in rather than Vivi so really wasn't a response to your post. My mistake. Sorry.

 

[womenssports]

Sorry WS, I was not directing that comment toward you but to the general view that Sherri was overpaid. She is - as I said - but not for the reasons some suggest.

No worries.

 

[SuperHoops]

OSU went 0 for 7 from 3 today.

 

[soonerstar]

Believe we will beat them if we play in the conference tourney.

 

[threepointshooter]

In its five game winning streak leading up to today's win over Tech, OSU shot 51.2% on FG and 39.4% from three.

Today they were 46.3% on FG and didn't hit a three. What a difference it makes when you don't give them wide open shots from the outside.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

In its five game winning streak leading up to today's win over Tech, OSU shot 51.2% on FG and 39.4% from three.

Today they were 46.3% on FG and didn't hit a three. What a difference it makes when you don't give them wide open shots from the outside.

They told me you struggled with math in school 3ps.

The pokes are dead last in the conference in 3 point shooting - under 30%. In case you didn't realize it that is exceptionally lousy. They just went through a lucky streak in a few games.

Today was actually pretty much a typical 3 pt shooting performance. It has nothing to do with being open.

But even with that they struggled mightily against the Red raiders compared to what our girls did not long ago.

 

[O-State2009]

They told me you struggled with math in school 3ps.

The pokes are dead last in the conference in 3 point shooting - under 30%. In case you didn't realize it that is exceptionally lousy. They just went through a lucky streak in a few games.

Today was actually pretty much a typical 3 pt shooting performance. It has nothing to do with being open.

But even with that they struggled mightily against the Red raiders compared to what our girls did not long ago.

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10410&CONTENT_ID=1592069

Above is a link to statistics for CONFERENCE games only. As you can see, OSU has remained consistent from OOC to Conference, a poor 3point shooting team. OSU does not shoot a lot of 3s. Only Baylor shoots less in conference games. OSU knows it isn't a strength and doesn't rely on 3s. But if a team leaves them open, anyone on the team has a green light to shoot.

Oklahoma is actually dead last in the CONFERENCE games at 3 point shooting. And they take 20 a game. I know you are looking at overall, but I think conference only stats is more accurate in comparing teams.

Maybe you weren't much better than threepointshooter in math. You say OSU is under 30% which is accurate. Then you say today was typical for OSU? 0-7 equals 0%. A typical day would have been 2-7 for 28%.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10410&CONTENT_ID=1592069

Above is a link to statistics for CONFERENCE games only. As you can see, OSU has remained consistent from OOC to Conference, a poor 3point shooting team. OSU does not shoot a lot of 3s. Only Baylor shoots less in conference games. OSU knows it isn't a strength and doesn't rely on 3s. But if a team leaves them open, anyone on the team has a green light to shoot.

Oklahoma is actually dead last in the CONFERENCE games at 3 point shooting. And they take 20 a game. I know you are looking at overall, but I think conference only stats is more accurate in comparing teams.

Maybe you weren't much better than threepointshooter in math. You say OSU is under 30% which is accurate. Then you say today was typical for OSU? 0-7 equals 0%. A typical day would have been 2-7 for 28%.

Typical is not the same as average. And 2 of 7 is not 28%. It's approximately 28.571428571428%.

By the way, how did you or 3ps do on the Putnam Exam?

 

[O-State2009]

Typical is not the same as average. And 2 of 7 is not 28%. It's approximately 28.571428571428%.

By the way, how did you or 3ps do on the Putnam Exam?

Oh my! You took the percentage out to many decimal places. Using your number or mine, it is less than OSU's Big 12 average.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/typical

Simple definition is average or usual. So how usual is it for OSU to go an entire game without a made 3 point basket?

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Oh my! You took the percentage out to many decimal places. Using your number or mine, it is less than OSU's Big 12 average.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/typical

Simple definition is average or usual. So how usual is it for OSU to go an entire game without a made 3 point basket made?

As I thought. Math is not your strong point. Think harder.

 

[O-State2009]

As I thought. Math is not your strong point. Think harder.

I give up. Tell me what I said that is false. I welcome the input. I'm supposed to learn something new every day, and I hope this is it.

 

[threepointshooter]

They told me you struggled with math in school 3ps.

The pokes are dead last in the conference in 3 point shooting - under 30%. In case you didn't realize it that is exceptionally lousy. They just went through a lucky streak in a few games.

Today was actually pretty much a typical 3 pt shooting performance. It has nothing to do with being open.

But even with that they struggled mightily against the Red raiders compared to what our girls did not long ago.

Oh, hello there. While you're online you should respond to my previous post (#104) in this thread. Go ahead and review the videos. I'm still curious how you came up with all the inaccurate things you stated. Did you intentionally make them up? Or were your eyes playing tricks on you?