Rank the Big 12 recruiting classes (2009)

[thebigabd]

Doesnt KU lose recruiting ranking points because two of their guys are related to Carl Henry? That makes Xavier a 3-star at best.

 

[blh111]

Although I agree that Texas had a better recruiting class than OU, calculating arithmetic means is a horrible way of justifying it. The talent differential between the #1 prospect and the #50 prospect in the country is much larger than the differential between the #101 prospect and the #150 prospect.

Say we have Team A and Team B, whose recruits are ranked like this:

Team A: #1, #2, #147
Team B: #48, #49, #50

Team A has an average prospect ranking of 50 (150/3=50), and Team B has an average of 49 (147/3=49). However, pretty much anyone would take Team A's recruits over Team B's because Team A has more elite talent. There's a reason no one would trade the #1 and the #31 picks in the NBA draft for the #14 and #16 picks despite the latter two picks having a lower arithmetic mean. The further down you go in the draft, the more marginal the talent differential between prospects. It's no different in recruiting rankings.

"There's a reason no one would trade the #1 and the #31 picks in the NBA draft for the #14 and #16 picks despite the latter two picks having a lower arithmetic mean."

I can dig where you're coming from. But of course nobody would give up the #1 pick for those numbers, and it was a very close average you mput out there. But the Texas/ou average wasn't that close. You're actually helping my of make my point with that comment. You wouldn't trade picks 4, 22 and 55 for picks 9, 30 and 88.

 

[SoonerNorm]

BigTime, I began following KU basketball in the 60's. The coach at that time was Ted Owens. I have heard him speak and you would have to look a long time to find a nicer guy. He gave way to Larry Brown who is a great coach but someone I didn't like all that much. Along came Roy Williams and I had nothing against him and all he did was win. Some probably didn't like him but I would have invited him to coach the Sooners in a heartbeat. I put Bill Self in the same category as Ted Owens. A truly nice guy who works hard and wins.

I understand that fans can get overbearing and that happens at every school that has success in a major sport. I can already see some Sooner basketball fans having a change of attitude because they have reason to believe that we are gaining on the great programs such as KU, Duke, IU, etc. That's what a certain number of fans do. They get ****y. Some OU football fans are ****y. I don't hate those OU football fans. I won't hate OU basketball fans who get ****y either, unless they go to the extreme and become like LSU fans. I just don't see the point in hating on KU basketball fans when I haven't seen them do anything worse than our football fans. Most are good fans who are knowledgeable. Some are jerks. Same as you will find at OU football games. I don't let the few jerks in a crowd taint my feelings toward the whole fanbase. My memories of KU basketball have been good, fans and all, going way back to the 60s. I want to beat them more than I do any other team in the league as there is more satisfaction when you beat the best. But, I don't harbor any bad feelings whatsoever. The KU fans I have met personally have been good people.

 

[luckyc1423]

4 and 9 are close
22 and 30 are close
and the only difference is the 55 recruit and our 80

I really dont see there being a big difference in the classes and I will stay with what OU has coming in...TMG will be here for four years I think...avery and gallon prob stay the same length so I still like our class better....talent wise prob texas class is better but we have talent and roll players....tmg roll player and talented...gallon talented...fitz roll player....pledger roll player....we got a little bit of everything from this class

 

[BigTime]

BigTime, I began following KU basketball in the 60's. The coach at that time was Ted Owens. I have heard him speak and you would have to look a long time to find a nicer guy. He gave way to Larry Brown who is a great coach but someone I didn't like all that much. Along came Roy Williams and I had nothing against him and all he did was win. Some probably didn't like him but I would have invited him to coach the Sooners in a heartbeat. I put Bill Self in the same category as Ted Owens. A truly nice guy who works hard and wins.

I understand that fans can get overbearing and that happens at every school that has success in a major sport. I can already see some Sooner basketball fans having a change of attitude because they have reason to believe that we are gaining on the great programs such as KU, Duke, IU, etc. That's what a certain number of fans do. They get ****y. Some OU football fans are ****y. I don't hate those OU football fans. I won't hate OU basketball fans who get ****y either, unless they go to the extreme and become like LSU fans. I just don't see the point in hating on KU basketball fans when I haven't seen them do anything worse than our football fans. Most are good fans who are knowledgeable. Some are jerks. Same as you will find at OU football games. I don't let the few jerks in a crowd taint my feelings toward the whole fanbase. My memories of KU basketball have been good, fans and all, going way back to the 60s. I want to beat them more than I do any other team in the league as there is more satisfaction when you beat the best. But, I don't harbor any bad feelings whatsoever.

I hope you don't own any KU turtlenecks. Let's just leave it at that. I think you may need to take a trip up there again sometime. A lot has changed since 1960. The new breed of gawk is pure arrogance.

 

[blh111]

Yeah, OU is recruiting at a high level. Nabbing the best player in Texas two years in a row helps for sure (Yes, I know that Williams won one of the awards, but let's be real, TMG is better).

Yeah, I ranked UT's class higher. I was just pointing out that Pledger will be a good player. If you are going to count Brown, then you got to count the goofy white kid for KU, but I still give the edge to the horns....

The only reason I added Brown was because cheno said something about that goofy kid you speak of earlier in this discussion. ku has a nice class coming in also, and I wouldn't even debate who had the better class between Texas and ku. I can understand cheno saying ku has a better class than Texas, but not ou.

I don't mind ou getting the best out of texas this year because of who Barnes went and got. But losing out on Warren stung a little. I'm interested to see how TMG does at ou. I always root for Texas kids no matter where they go. That's in football and basketball.

 

[luckyc1423]

I think kansas has the best class with OU and Texas tied at 2nd

 

[BigTime]

The only reason I added Brown was because cheno said something about that goofy kid you speak of earlier in this discussion. ku has a nice class coming in also, and I wouldn't even debate who had the better class between Texas and ku. I can understand cheno saying ku has a better class than Texas, but not ou.

I don't mind ou getting the best out of texas this year because of who Barnes went and got. But losing out on Warren stung a little. I'm interested to see how TMG does at ou. I always root for Texas kids no matter where they go. That's in football and basketball.

I am just glad to have a horn fan on this board. Thanks for your input. :clap

 

[thebigabd]

I hope you don't own any KU turtlenecks. Let's just leave it at that. I think you may need to take a trip up there again sometime. A lot has changed since 1960. The new breed of gawk is pure arrogance.

Which top 5 program (any sport) isnt going to put arrogance on display?

-Im sure Clippers fans think the Lakers are arrogant.
-I bet OSU fans think OU fans are arrogant.
-I bet Wolverine fans think Buckeyes are arrogant
-I bet Buckeyes think Wolverines are arrogant
-I bet ORU fans think TU fans are arrogant
-I bet Broken Arrow fans think Union and Jenks fans are arrogant
-I bet every opponent who faces the Watersmeet Nimrods think they are arrogant.

 

[BigTime]

Which top 5 program (any sport) isnt going to put arrogance on display?

-Im sure Clippers fans think the Lakers are arrogant.
-I bet OSU fans think OU fans are arrogant.
-I bet Wolverine fans think Buckeyes are arrogant
-I bet Buckeyes think Wolverines are arrogant
-I bet ORU fans think TU fans are arrogant
-I bet Broken Arrow fans think Union and Jenks fans are arrogant
-I bet every opponent who faces the Watersmeet Nimrods think they are arrogant.

No need to tagteam, abd. I know that you and norm feel differently. We have been over it before. To be honest, I don't think a KU apologist should be a moderator on an OU men's messageboard. We all know that you want fans from other schools to feel comfortable on this board. It is part of the reason that I am now just a poster. Everyone has an agenda (including me).

I am going to keep ragging on Kansas whether you like it or not.

 

[thebigabd]

No need to tagteam, abd. I know that you and norm feel differently. We have been over it before. To be honest, I don't think a KU apologist should be a moderator on an OU men's messageboard.

Im not a KU apologist, im just a nice guy who doesnt dislike someone because they like to cheer for a different basketball team, lol.

I dislike people who steal from me, make funny faces at me, cut in line in front of me, take forever in the Wal-Mart self check out lane (come on, just scan it and put it in the damn bag!), etc.

I will never dislike or treat someone poorly because he/she wears blue or orange and I wear red.

We all know that you want fans from other schools to feel comfortable on this board. It is part of the reason that I am now just a poster. Everyone has an agenda (including me).

Yes, it is true. I do like having fans from around the Big 12 post here, because OU plays in the Big 12 conference and we talk about the Big 12 all the time. I like good people such as fatty, cheno, grace, hohum, dignon, jeff, and any other basketball junkie to come here and talk hoops with us.

So yes, acceptance and tolerance for those different than me is my agenda, both on this board and out in the real world.

I am going to keep ragging on Kansas whether you like it or not.

Thats fine, you have that right. I also have the right to respond.

Now, lets move on.

 

[BigTime]

Im not a KU apologist, im just a nice guy who doesnt dislike someone because they like to cheer for a different basketball team, lol.

Wasn't talking about you.
I dislike people who steal from me, make funny faces at me, cut in line in front of me, take forever in the Wal-Mart self check out lane (come on, just scan it and put it in the damn bag!), etc.

I will never dislike or treat someone poorly because he/she wears blue or orange and I wear red.

It's a messageboard not life.



Yes, it is true. I do like having fans from around the Big 12 post here, because OU plays in the Big 12 conference and we talk about the Big 12 all the time. I like good people such as fatty, cheno, grace, hohum, dignon, jeff, and any other basketball junkie to come here and talk hoops with us.

So yes, acceptance and tolerance for those different than me is my agenda, both on this board and out in the real world.

Mine too. Again this isn't the real world. Hate to break it to you. Have plenty of good friends and family members that like other teams.



Thats fine, you have that right. I also have the right to respond.

Now, lets move on.

You first. I will follow.

:hollis754:

 

[AdaSooner]

Come on, guys. Don't ruin a perfectly good thread by allowing personal feelings to get in the way. Thanks.

 

[Cheno]

Fella, don't flip flop when things don't work out for you. You made the comment of who thinks that Hamilton has the best offensive game in the country, Texas fans, "please". I showed proof that somebody on ESPN thought he was the best offensive player in the country. Case closed there, you can go back and forth with yourself on it. I know you'll kill yourself before admitting you're wrong.

Who said that? I must have missed it.

As far as the Texas talent, they haven't stayed around long enough to get the job done. But hey, that's a chance you take when you recruit those type of players. But you have to get started some where. No shame in what Texas has done with the talent they've had, and how long the talent has stuck around.

Really? That team with Gibson, Aldridge, Tucker, Buckman, etc, etc had as much talent as anyone in the country. Durant, Augustine, Abrams, James, etc. Wow! Those teams had a TON of talent and won a total of 4 NCAA tourney games.

ou is not right there as you claimed. Should I quote you on that before you claim you didn't say that either.

I guess we'll see over the next 4 years won't we? OU's class will have a bigger impact. You'll see.

 

[blh111]

Who said that? I must have missed it.


Really? That team with Gibson, Aldridge, Tucker, Buckman, etc, etc had as much talent as anyone in the country. Durant, Augustine, Abrams, James, etc. Wow! Those teams had a TON of talent and won a total of 4 NCAA tourney games.


I guess we'll see over the next 4 years won't we? OU's class will have a bigger impact. You'll see.

I'm glad you stayed away from most of the things I clowned you about, and even quoted you on. "Reading comprehension", "I never said that take them away", I'm still laughing at you.

Gibson and Aldridge both left after 2 years. Durant was around for 1 year, and Augustine and James were both freshmen also, don't be stupid. Augustine left after his second year, and James was also in his second year when Augustine left. Again, don't be stupid. I cleared that up before you even put that mess out there. I said the talent hasn't stuck around long enough together to win it all. Do you want to discuss some of those ku squads that got beat in the first round of the tournament when they weren't supposed to. Bradley and a Bucknell team that had never won a tournement game. Again, don't act stupid fella.

"UT is one of just eight programs to have advanced to each of the last 10 NCAA Tournaments, joining Arizona, Duke, Gonzaga, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan State and Wisconsin."

"UT is one of only three programs to have advanced to at least the "Sweet 16" of the NCAA Tournament in five of the last seven seasons, joining Duke and Kansas"

Like I said before, Barnes is changing the face of Texas basketball. Nobody has claimed to be a superpower, not yet. But that was never the argument anyway, just something you flipped to with your "wanna be" comment because you were getting punished.

"I guess we'll see over the next 4 years won't we? OU's class will have a bigger impact. You'll see"

No fella, I will not see. But you keep fighting the good fight with that one.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Here is a hint to the wise. This isn't like most boards. We don't call people names and we don't attack other posters. Just discuss the issues but leave out the personal attacks and everyone will get along fine.

 

[Cheno]

I guess you can't provide me with that quote on Hamilton as the best offensive player in the country. Cat didn't even play this past season.

 

[blh111]

I guess you can't provide me with that quote on Hamilton as the best offensive player in the country. Cat didn't even play this past season.

I already provided you with that quote and another you made yourself that you claimed to have never said. Like I said before, you'll kill yourself before admitting you're wrong. I see a trend.

 

[Cheno]

I already provided you with that quote and another you made yourself that you claimed to have never said. Like I said before, you'll kill yourself before admitting you're wrong. I see a trend.

I haven't seen a quote from ESPN that says Hamilton is the best offensive player in the country. Neither one of us are wrong. We are talking about something that is subjective and has yet to be realized. It's an opinion. My opinion is OU's recruiting class is better. Yours is Texas is better. Like I said we'll see in 4 years. Lots of things on paper look better. Heck Texas has had lots of teams that look better on paper and then the games on the court are actually played and things change.

 

[elmocarp]

Wow this thread is gay...

Are you guys seriously trying to argue about how 3 closely rated recruiting classes are going to rank? All the main guys for all three schools being mentioned are all very, very good players. I'll take my guys and my coach against your guys and see what happens.

A couple of years ago OU signed a guy named Blake Griffin. We all knew he was a really, really good player, but we didn't know how good he would be. He was a McDonald's All-American and ranked as the #23 prospect. Other schools got higher ranked guys in that class, like Michael Beasley, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, O.J. Mayo, Kevin Love, James Harden, Anthony Randolph and Jonny Flynn. Would I trade Blake for any of those guys? No way. But would fans from other schools trade those guys for Blake? Probably not.

The point is that Capel has bridged the gap that had been there for OU in recruiting. Now OU has a chance to compete on a relatively level playing field, so now we see how Capel can do with high-end players. I love the class that Coach put together...nice combination of balance and filling needs. I'll take the Pepsi Challenge against their guys any day.

BTW...some other guys ranked ahead of Blake in that class: DeAndre Jordan, Donte Greene, J.J. Hickson, Austin Freeman, Kosta Koufos, Nayal Koshwal, Chandler Parsons and Jemelle Horn. Is Tiny one of these guys, or one from the first list, or something in between?