Recruiting is over for next years's team and

[WTSooner]

I'm confused here. I thought the consensus on this board was this team needed quality depth because the top players simply ran out of gas causing an already thin margin of error to all but disappear.

In part. The problem was also who we had playing minutes when the starters were off the court. We now replace Blair, Neal, and Washington with the three freshmen guards, one of Fitz/Cam/M'Baye, and Bennett.

 

[perryj74]

So if 4 guys are going to average as many or more minutes than the starters did last year how do they keep from wearing down just because the reserves who come in when they aren't on the floor are better than a year ago?

The starters minutes have to come down, and maybe 28 is too far down. The starting 5 aren't good enough to run out there 30+ minutes a night during the conference schedule and expect different results from the last few years. These kids coming in have to play and they can't if 4 starters are eating up 30+ minutes a game.

 

[WTSooner]

So if 4 guys are going to average as many or more minutes than the starters did last year how do they keep from wearing down just because the reserves who come in when they aren't on the floor are better than a year ago?

The starters minutes have to come down, and maybe 28 is too far down. The starting 5 aren't good enough to run out there 30+ minutes a night during the conference schedule and expect different results from the last few years. These kids coming in have to play and they can't if 4 starters are eating up 30+ minutes a game.

I only named a couple of guys that will average more minutes. That still leaves a couple of starters that might not, or probably won't. It wasn't just about "wearing down". It was about not having options to replace them when they didn't play well. It was about not having other options when the starters didn't match up well. It was about not having a shooter to bring in off the bench to get that big 3 pointer we might have needed late. And those average minutes per game can be obtained a bunch of different ways. Maybe they play more minutes against better competition b/c we stay in those games later (Mizzou/KU), but get to rest more against TT b/c they take care of business, and we can play the bench some in the second half. It's not as simple as saying "oh, they'll average less minutes." You still want your best players playing, and on the court, as much as they can be.

 

[perryj74]

Actually you named 4 guys, Pledger, Osby, M'Baye, and Grooms, the last two with qualifications, that will average as many or more minutes than did the starters last year.

I don't disagree that you want your best players on the floor as much as possible but last year showed us 30+ minutes for Grooms, Pledger, and Osby were too much. If you have all conference/american type talent that's one thing but this roster isn't filled with those types of players just yet.

I also agree that there was more to it than wearing down and hopefully with the recent recruiting those issues have been addressed. I actually think the depth of this team is going to be a positive. More players will be able to play which should translate into higher outputs from all involved thanks to more people being able to carry the burden whether it be scoring, rebounding, ball handling, or defense.

 

[NormanPride]

If four guys are averaging 30+ minutes a game then we will not be much improved. Unless a couple of those four are new...

It would essentially mean we are the same team. And I don't think just adding M'Baye is going to instantly make us a tourney team, so...

 

[WTSooner]

What you guys seem to be forgetting is that our starters were good enough to give OU the lead in the first half of several games we lost. And several of those games, we lead into the 2nd half. We don't need a major overall of the minutes played by most of those guys. 1 or 2 minutes per game is 3-6% if you are averaging 32 minutes per game. That is a pretty big change. But my point is, we don't need wholesale changes of the lineup. We need better bench play WHEN they are called upon. We also need the ability to mix and match for certain situations, and we need to be able to replace a guy like Cam when he is adding nothing offensively. I don't think the entire starting roster sees a 4-6 minute per game decrease in minutes played. And those freshmen, while they are going to help us out a bunch, need to play limited roles still. I don't think they will be good enough to produce at a high level if they are overexposed. Rather than them stealing minutes from Pledger and Grooms, I see them taking minutes from Blair, Neal, and Cam.

 

[hoopsaustin]

0.0001% chance that cousins starts over grooms at any point next season

grooms isnt exactly steve nash.. his lack of a jumpshot kills us because we effectively play 4v5 on O with some already limited offensive skill.. So to act like grooms is a lock as a starter is crazy..

 

[tdsooner]

we'll see how it all plays out, but LK has signed some really nice kids. I can see the three guards being big for OU almost right away and Bennett helping out early.
i think we'll have a nice shot to go dancin'. gonna be interesting to see what all shakes out with this group, but i really think the new guys will really push the returnees in practices as i see the new guys being hard workers and competitors and that possess some talent, thus making the other players have to 'want' it more than past couple of so seasons. I just see us being a more physical and competitive than we have been. If LK doesn't see it as much as he'd like, then he'll have some options this season as he did not have last year and won't hesitate using those options. guys better be getting after the boards and 50/50 balls or they could find themselves on the bench. the team needs to play hard for all 40 and can see much more substituting with some quality depth and to keep players fresh and/or also when someone is having an off game or just a bad game. I'm thinking we have some new guys that will really challenge the others in practice and can see Spangler also pushing the bigs in practice that hopefully makes them better. He's a competitor and plays hard and he knows what it takes to play at this level and that'll help with the practices, as well. i certinly see the new guys as a definite positive for this team, something we really need(ed). I also think their minutes will be more than taking just blair and neal type minutes only but jmo and may be wrong.

 

[perryj74]

Better bench play isn't all of a sudden going to make a guy who is playing 33 minutes a game less tired. 33 minutes a game is 33 minutes a game and so far no one on the roster has proven to be able to play that many minutes and remain effective enough to win Big 12 games.

In Lon's 7 years at UNLV he had 7 players total average more than 30 minutes per game and never more than 2 in a season. Now you're saying he is going to have as many as 4 on a team that he has infused with top 100 type talent? I just don't buy it and if it happens we will be lucky to make the NIT.

 

[usedtobe1]

Sam Grooms - 28 mpg
Steven Pledger - 28 mpg
Amath M'Baye - 28 mpg
Romero Osby - 28 mpg
Andrew Fitzgerald -22 mpg
Cam Clark - 22 mpg
Isiah Cousins - 15 mpg
D.J. Bennett - 12 mpg
Tyler Neal - 7 mpg
Buddy Hield or Jelon Hornbeak - 6 mpg
Casey Arent - 4 mpg

I don't see 5 post players averaging 94 minutes/game. More if you count Neal as a post instead of a wing. I think they will play with a 3 guard lineup (counting Clark as a wing/guard). I think Clark might have to slide inside sometimes if he wants minutes.

Rationale: They need another outside shooter besides Pledger, plus 3 post players + Pledger doesn't leave anyone to handle the ball other than Grooms.

I see 2 post players + Grooms + freshman + Pledger/Clark if they want to make a leap forward. Just my opinion.....

 

[BoulderSooner]

I don't see 5 post players averaging 94 minutes/game. More if you count Neal as a post instead of a wing. I think they will play with a 3 guard lineup (counting Clark as a wing/guard). I think Clark might have to slide inside sometimes if he wants minutes.

Rationale: They need another outside shooter besides Pledger, plus 3 post players + Pledger doesn't leave anyone to handle the ball other than Grooms.

I see 2 post players + Grooms + freshman + Pledger/Clark if they want to make a leap forward. Just my opinion.....

Neal played almost 0 Post min last year .. and M'baye is as much of a wing if not more than neal ...

 

[AdaSooner]

Here's my take on the minutes. I doubt if anyone on the team averages more than 30 mpg, with an outside chance that Pledger, Osby and Grooms might top that mark, but not by much. If Grooms hasn't improved his shot, he'll get less than 30 mpg.

I doubt if anyone will disagree that our current roster has more quality depth than this time last year. I keep using the word "quality," because there is a huge difference in having enough bodies to run an eight or nine man rotation than putting players on the floor who are capable of actually sustaining or building on a lead.

It should have been obvious to everyone that Coach Kruger went with a nine man rotation in the first half last season, only to pare that number down to six or seven in the second half. The only departure from that trend was when a starter got into early foul trouble.

My guess is that he didn't trust the bottom two or three players enough to give them an equal number of minutes in the second half when the game was on the line. With what I believe is an upgrade in talent, I expect to see that change this year. Thus, the total minutes will be spread more evenly than last season, which will likely mean that even the returning starters will aveage fewer minutes.

 

[vbdad]

0.0001% chance that cousins starts over grooms at any point next season

Wrong! He outplayed Sam when he was on his visit. Now Sam is the returning starter and will improve over the summer so it may not happen but it isn't out of the question.

I say M'Baye has the most minutes next year.

 

[NickZepp]

Pledger will lead the team in minutes, the front court guys will rotate too much to give any of them more minutes, but Osby should play the most of the group

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DenverSooner]

Wrong! He outplayed Sam when he was on his visit. Now Sam is the returning starter and will improve over the summer so it may not happen but it isn't out of the question.

I say M'Baye has the most minutes next year.

Where did he outplay Sam Grooms? Pick up games do not necessarily translate into D-1 play. Honestly, I hope he is a better pg than Grooms because that means OU is a better team but I think people are a bit quick to put Grooms on the bench. He had a good season and should be improved net year. Clearly he needs to improve his shooting but in other phases of the game he did a good job.

 

[WTSooner]

Wrong! He outplayed Sam when he was on his visit.

lol

 

[vbdad]

At the LNC. You are correct the pick up games are not the same as true games.

He has is a much better shooter than Sam and is just more talented. Experience is obviously lacking but he will beat him out unless Sam improves over the summer. Sam is a hard worker and I expect he will improve a bunch this summer. We will be better at the point next year.
The coaching staff thinks Cousins is going to be a very good player.

 

[BoulderSooner]

At the LNC. You are correct the pick up games are not the same as true games.

He has is a much better shooter than Sam and is just more talented. Experience is obviously lacking but he will beat him out unless Sam improves over the summer. Sam is a hard worker and I expect he will improve a bunch this summer. We will be better at the point next year.
The coaching staff thinks Cousins is going to be a very good player.

there is almost no chance he is as good of a ball handler as grooms ... or defender or passer ... or taking care of the ball .

 

[WTSooner]

there is almost no chance he is as good of a ball handler as grooms ... or defender or passer ... or taking care of the ball .

Or running an offense.