Rotation -- Last year and Next Year

[cowboysooner]

Last year, we played an 11 man rotation in non-conference and went with an 8 man rotation during conference.

2011 non-conf.

5 = fitz, honore and arent
4 = osby and cj
3/2 = cam, bird, calvin and neal
1 = grooms and blair

2011 conference

5/4 = fitz, osby and cj\
3/2 = cam, bird and neal
1 = grooms and blair

Lon clearly closed ranks and began focusing his minutes after newell left and when conference came around. I think this is pretty common and expected. If newell hadn't left, we probably would have had a 9 man rotation with him in it.

Next year

Non conf: 5/4 = fitz, osby, Mbuye and arent
3/2 = cam, bird, neal and hield
1 = grooms, cousins and hornbeak

Conf. 5/4 = fitz, osby and mbuye
wing = cam, bird and neal
point = grooms and either cousins or hornbeak but not both

We won't know much about the new guards until they have played some at the college level. But, if any 2 of them can break into the rotation, I think that will mean that we will be improved. If Hield is as good an athlete as they say, then maybe he takes neal's minutes.

I think Arent is plenty good enough to bang for the amount of minutes that a fourth interior player will get in conference play. If not, cam and neal can steal a few interior minutes. Just like this year, by conference, I expect Lon to be putting almost all of the interior minutes in the hands of 3 players (fitz, osby and mbuye).

For me, Mbuye for CJ is at least an even swap and, although he is a good kid as far as I know, I'm not a big fan of Blair as a player. So from my perspective, we have our top 7 kids back and Arent. They played .500 ball this year and I would expect them to improve with another year of experiance and training. If Mbuye is an upgrade over cj and the 3 freshman can contribute, we should be improved.

 

[CoachTalk]

Mbaye will start. Better than Osby and Fitz... Mbaye is not just an even swap with CJ, He will probably be one of the top 2-3 players on the the team.

 

[WTSooner]

I want to see what we do with the remaining two scholarships before I chime in, but I will add that depending on whom we sign, and if we use both scholarships, we may be down to only 4 scholarships available for the 2013 class. That is quite a bit different then the 6 we thought we'd have. I'd hate to miss out on some of those kids b/c we simply don't have enough open 'ships.

 

[Ham]

Assuming Blair is gone...

Here is 11 for non-con.
Grooms/Pledger/Clark/Osby/Fitzgerald
Cousins/Neal/Hield or Hornbeak*/M'Baye/New JUCO or Arent or both*
The 11th slot would be determined by the quality of the lesser of Hield/Hornbeak and the potential new JUCO big.

Maybe M'Baye gets 'starters minutes' but I can't see a senior and returning two-year starter getting benched by LK. Fitz has some downsides but for two years, that guy has played his butt off for us.

conference play:
Grooms/Pledger/Clark/Osby/Fitzgerald
Cousins/Neal/M'Baye (Hield or Hornbeak would be #9)

 

[Sam]

Assuming Blair is gone...

Here is 11 for non-con.
Grooms/Pledger/Clark/Osby/Fitzgerald
Cousins/Neal/Hield or Hornbeak*/M'Baye/New JUCO or Arent or both*
The 11th slot would be determined by the quality of the lesser of Hield/Hornbeak and the potential new JUCO big.

Maybe M'Baye gets 'starters minutes' but I can't see a senior and returning two-year starter getting benched by LK. Fitz has some downsides but for two years, that guy has played his butt off for us.

conference play:
Grooms/Pledger/Clark/Osby/Fitzgerald
Cousins/Neal/M'Baye (Hield or Hornbeak would be #9)

Why are you assuming Cousins > Hield and Hornbeak? Hornbeak has a background as a point guard as well.

I personally like Hornbeak as the main guard off the bench for the athleticism and versatilely he can bring to it.

 

[AdaSooner]

I want to see what we do with the remaining two scholarships before I chime in, but I will add that depending on whom we sign, and if we use both scholarships, we may be down to only 4 scholarships available for the 2013 class. That is quite a bit different then the 6 we thought we'd have. I'd hate to miss out on some of those kids b/c we simply don't have enough open 'ships.

I had my sights (and hopes) set on the 2013 class as well. At the same time, I like the idea of bringing in the best players available this fall to give the team more experience next year.

Besides, there are no guarantees in the 2013 class. Kruger has to know what happened when Capel put all of his recruiting eggs in two or three baskets and failed to sign any of the players he targeted two years ago. OU took a serious hit in recruiting with that class, and we're still experiencing the effects of a rush at the last minute to fill ships.

 

[WTSooner]

Why are you assuming Cousins > Hield and Hornbeak. Hornbeak has a background as a point guard as well.

I personally like Hornbeak as the main guard off the bench for the athleticism and versatilely he can bring to it.

Agreed. I think both are more polished shooters than Cousins too. Hield is certainly the best shooter of the group. He may be the 2nd or 3rd best shooter the moment he steps on campus.

 

[AdaSooner]

Why are you assuming Cousins > Hield and Hornbeak? Hornbeak has a background as a point guard as well.

I personally like Hornbeak as the main guard off the bench for the athleticism and versatilely he can bring to it.

I agree with you, Sam. You have seen Hornbeak play a lot more than the one game I watched. But I have been really high on him since I saw him play a few months ago on television.

He's a smart player with a great feel for the game. The one thing that stood out to me is that his coach wanted him on the floor when the game was tight and the outcome was still in doubt. Emmanual Mudiay is a heck of a guard that I would love to see at OU someday. But, Hornbeak was the glue on that team!

 

[WTSooner]

I had my sights (and hopes) set on the 2013 class as well. At the same time, I like the idea of bringing in the best players available this fall to give the team more experience next year.

Besides, there are no guarantees in the 2013 class. Kruger has to know what happened when Capel put all of his recruiting eggs in two or three baskets and failed to sign any of the players he targeted two years ago. OU took a serious hit in recruiting with that class, and we're still experiencing the effects of a rush at the last minute to fill ships.

True.

All goes back to the my "trust LK" mantra too. He's earned the right to not have stuff like this questioned. For now.

 

[bgrch1350]

Mbaye will start. Better than Osby and Fitz... Mbaye is not just an even swap with CJ, He will probably be one of the top 2-3 players on the the team.

And what are you going by? What is it that makes you so sure he will start? I watched the kid play at Wyoming last season...Their is some talent there but to basically guarentee that he will start is ridiculous. He's not starting over Cam at the 3. If you hated watching Cam shoot 29% from beyond the arc as a sophmore than your going to grind your teeth down to nothing b/c MBaye shot 16% beyond the arc as a sophmore. He's not starting over Osby. And Fitzgerald has improved every season and he should be even better next season so to not see Fitzgerald start would be a shock. The guy brings so much offense...if he continues to improve in other areas he wont be a guy you bring off the bench.

You guys do realize that during his 2 years at Wyoming, they had combined 20 wins. And this year...without him...they had 21 wins. That means They won more games this year without him than they had won 2 years with him.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I think that any speculation on a rotation for next season at this point is premature as OU still has several players on the radar. As far as returning players, we were sub-.500 in the conference, I'm pretty sure that no job is "safe".

 

[OUHoosier]

I think that any speculation on a rotation for next season at this point is premature as OU still has several players on the radar. As far as returning players, we were sub-.500 in the conference, I'm pretty sure that no job is "safe".

I think 3 starting jobs are safe:

Grooms- he should be even better w/experience and several more weapons to dish to
Pledger- Sr. starting SG and returning leading scorer
Osby- clearly OU's best all around post presence last year

 

[campbest]

You guys do realize that during his 2 years at Wyoming, they had combined 20 wins. And this year...without him...they had 21 wins. That means They won more games this year without him than they had won 2 years with him.

Understand what you're saying, but their two best players didn't play last year (Martinez, JUCO transfer was supposed to play with M'Baye but injured himself in the preseason; Washington is a USC transfer and sat out per NCAA rules). Is that worth 10 extra wins? I don't know, but the statement above leaves out some facts.

 

[campbest]

I think 3 starting jobs are safe:

Grooms- he should be even better w/experience and several more weapons to dish to
Pledger- Sr. starting SG and returning leading scorer
Osby- clearly OU's best all around post presence last year

Agreed, at least to start the year.

 

[Sam]

Its not about as much who starts, but who finishes. Just look at James Harden for the Thunder.

 

[cowboysooner]

The point of my post was really just to highlight that we return the core of our team that played in the conference schedule or when it counted and, that because of this, we should be better than .500 this coming year.

I haven't seen the new kids play except for a little video and a couple of tv games with Hornbeak and so I don't have an opinion as to what they can do or where or whether they will play. But I do like the idea of 3 new guards that appear to have good athletisim and skill. If one or more can work their way into the lineup, then we are sure to improve.

During an LK interview he seemed to indicate that hornbeak can play point or wing and hield is more of a wing. Who knows, but just reading about cousins, he sounds a little more like hornbeak than Hield, in that he apparantly can play some point.

I hope they are all good enough to earn minutes. But, as I have said in other threads, I think the key to next year is in the improvement of Grooms. He needs to be able to hit the 12-15 foot jumper and have the confidence to take the shot. In addition, we need osby to play from day one like he did at the end of the year. If grooms, osby, neal and cam all improve on areas they are weak in, I think we will be a solid team. If the new kids we know about and of course, if LK can pick up another player or two, then again, it just adds to the reasons to be optimistic.

 

[garyeb2]

I think 3 starting jobs are safe:

Grooms- he should be even better w/experience and several more weapons to dish to
Pledger- Sr. starting SG and returning leading scorer
Osby- clearly OU's best all around post presence last year

If Pledger starts, he will have to do something that he has never had to do at OU before. Beat out someone for the position.

As a freshman, he couldn't beat out a bumb ankle soph. that was destined to be a D leauge washout. As a soph. there was no one. Calvin started the season as a point guard. And last year the only player to push him, left.

Mayby he can. But, if he does, he will be better for it.

 

[WTSooner]

And Fitzgerald has improved every season and he should be even better next season so to not see Fitzgerald start would be a shock.

Huh?

His FG% has dropped every year he's been at OU. His FT% dropped from his sophmore year. He averaged the exact same number of rebounds per game, in nearly identical minutes played (to his junior year). His ppg decreased by half a point per game. He averaged (minimal differences here) less assists, blocks, and steals per game his junior year, compared to his sophmore year.

I like Fitz. But he is one of the most physically limited post players OU has started in a long time. The things you infer that he will improve on, I don't see it. He can't. He cannot physically do some of the stuff we expect starting posts for OU to be able to do.

I suggested a few months ago that Fitz was unlikely to come off the bench for a couple of reasons. Namely, I wasn't sure if he could take a demotion, and I wasn't sure LK would want to put him on the bench his senior year.

After watching his play the last couple of months of the season, I think if M'Baye is as good as advertised, he has to start over Fitz. Bring Fitz's one-dimensional offensive game off the bench to matchup against the other teams' backups. We can control his minutes. Let him be instant offense off the bench. And if he somehow retains his starting job, and M'Baye comes off the bench, I think M'Baye will play as many or more minutes, and will be on the floor at crunch time.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

If Pledger starts, he will have to do something that he has never had to do at OU before. Beat out someone for the position.

As a freshman, he couldn't beat out a bumb ankle soph. that was destined to be a D leauge washout. As a soph. there was no one. Calvin started the season as a point guard. And last year the only player to push him, left.

Mayby he can. But, if he does, he will be better for it.

good grief

 

[CoachTalk]

And what are you going by? What is it that makes you so sure he will start? I watched the kid play at Wyoming last season....

Im going on watching him light up teammates in practice! You go watch proactice next year when it opens and you will see!