Sawyer/Mizzou

[Sawyer]

Sawyer, you're handling all this reasonably well, but the antagonism towards Mizzou isn't because they were good this season, it's because a) they're leaving the Big 12 after trying to ditch the conference for years, so how else would you expect Big 12 fans to react? and b) Mizzou is a seriously underachieving athletic program, but their fans behave as if they're elite. You can insist all you like that the tourney's overrated, but never, ever having been to a Final Four -- even in the era of an eight-team tourney? That's rough. As is getting smoked in what was probably the biggest football game in your school's history (glad to learn, though, that you take comfort from feeling that the two teams were more closely matched than the two double-digit OU wins that season would suggest).

Enjoy the SEC, but don't expect to be welcomed warmly here going forward. You're a fan, after all, of what it is viewed by many, and not unreasonably, as a traitorous and unjustifiably arrogant program.

I'm under no illusion that anyone here is celebrating MU's loss simply because we were good, and I don't know what I've said that would lead you to believe that was the case (this type of misinterpretation from you is nothing new, though).

I'm not going to go through all the conference realignment stuff again, but I will say, as I've said before, that there wasn't a single person more interested in keeping the Big 12 together than Brady Deaton. MU — the ones who actually have influence on these decisions, anyway — wasn't actively courting the SEC. The Big 10? Sure, if they were interested and willing to make MU equal partners in all their endeavors (athletic and otherwise), but that wasn't ever on the table. We aren't the ones who created the instability. The fault lies with the Big 10, the Pac 10 and Texas.

If you want to hold MU accountable for that, I guess go ahead.

 

[skyvue]

Final four number two is surely right around the corner for Kruger.

Now we're getting down to it. Sawyer doesn't let his hair down here very often, but when he does...

You can mock Kruger all you like, Sawyer, but he came darned close to beating your 30-win team in Norman with a seriously undermanned roster of players.

Oh, and that one Final Four he has on his resume? That's one more than the University of Missouri has managed in its "storied" history. Funny that you would choose that particular "shortcoming" to rag on him for.

 

[skyvue]

I'm under no illusion that anyone here is celebrating MU's loss simply because we were good, and I don't know what I've said that would lead you to believe that was the case (this type of misinterpretation from you is nothing new, though).

Really? You have no idea? (And now come the personal digs, too -- true colors being revealed left and right.)

How's this read to you?

"I understand the desire to trash good teams when your own is no good."

Does that not suggest that you felt OU fans were ragging on Mizzou "simply because you were good"? It did (and still does) to me. So perhaps I don't have such a problem with misinterpretation as you might wish to ascribe to me. Perhaps the problem is with your own inability to make yourself understood.

 

[Sawyer]

If we didn't lose a game for ten years I'd still enjoy MU's yearly fails and their fans pooping their pants and then still bashing big brother KU.



Not counting Sawyer 'cuz he's a good guy but I never wish ill will on a team 'cuz I know the kids try so hard but there's never been a fanbase more deserving of a repeated kick in the crotch than MU fans. I've never seen more chest thumping and blowharding from someone that's never won chit. I won't miss trying to get out of Columbia alive after football games. And let me be the first to say that Sooner fans can be a handful too.

Don't make room for that softball trophy just yet. Ricketts and company have some new big bats and might have something to say about it.

Course I figured he was out buying one of these...

http://shop.nsuspartans.com/

You're in KC. You're surrounded by MU fans who are surrounded by kansas fans. That city has got to be a psychiatrist's dream. The amount of complexes waiting to be diagnosed must be staggering. Those people aren't really representative of the fan base as a whole.

If you've had issues in Columbia, blame the bocas of the world.

As for softball... I doubt either of us really care. But I do know enough about the sport to know great pitching almost always trumps great hitting, and MU has the best pitcher in the country (as well as a beast of a freshman from Oklahoma in 6-4 Bailey Erwin).

 

[Sawyer]

Now we're getting down to it. Sawyer doesn't let his hair down here very often, but when he does...

You can mock Kruger all you like, Sawyer, but he came darned close to beating your 30-win team in Norman with a seriously undermanned roster of players.

Oh, and that one Final Four he has on his resume? That's one more than the University of Missouri has managed in its "storied" history. Funny that you would choose that particular "shortcoming" to rag on him for.

Perfect example.

I'm not mocking Kruger. He's a damn good coach. I'm mocking the idea that he's an elite coach on the level of Izzo, Krzyzewski, Self, Calipari, etc. He's not. He's a coach with a 61% career winning percentage who's one game over .500 in the tournament for his career. Haith's a 60% career coach and one game under .500. If an OU fan is going to brag about having Kruger over Haith, I'm going to point out that Kruger is hardly elite. You can take that as me mocking him if you want, but you'd be wrong.

Really? You have no idea? (And now come the personal digs, too -- true colors being revealed left and right.)

How's this read to you?

"I understand the desire to trash good teams when your own is no good."

Does that not suggest that you felt OU fans were ragging on Mizzou "simply because you were good"? It did (and still does) to me. So perhaps I don't have such a problem with misinterpretation as you might wish to ascribe to me. Perhaps the problem is with your own inability to make yourself understood.

Of course it does. Because you're incapable of reading things in context and understanding nuance.

Pointing out your tendency to grasp onto small portions of a post and disregard the context in which it was said (the same personality trait that leads you to call MU "traitorous") is not a "personal dig."

 

[seniorsooner]

It never ceases to confound me what possesses a fan of a school to spend their time posting on another school's message board. Let's just say I can count on none fingers the amount of times I have posted on a message board that isn't OU themed. To each their own I guess.

 

[Sawyer]

Posts by OU fans about Mizzou have a lot to do with it.

That's why I joined this site in the first place.

 

[skyvue]

I'm not mocking Kruger. He's a damn good coach. I'm mocking the idea that he's an elite coach on the level of Izzo, Krzyzewski, Self, Calipari, etc. He's not.

Ah, but you didn't say that he's a damned good coach, did you? Nor did anyone in this thread suggest (unless I missed it, and if I did, I trust you'll clue me in) that Kruger is on that level. Quite a straw man you've put forward there.

So, again I suggest to you that the problem lies not in my (or anyone else's) limited skills of comprehension, but in your (lack of) ability to effectively communicate your intended meaning.

That, and your unwillingness to stand behind your posts, as you instead pretend after the fact that you meant something entirely different than what you posted.

Of course it does. Because you're incapable of reading things in context and understanding nuance.

Pointing out your tendency to grasp onto small portions of a post and disregard the context in which it was said (the same personality trait that leads you to call MU "traitorous") is not a "personal dig."

I'm sorry you feel that way. Let's look at the rest of your post and see what context it is that I missed.

"I understand the desire to trash good teams when your own is no good. I certainly enjoyed kansas losing to Buckness as a 3 seed while MU was in the NIT and losing to Bradley as a 4 while MU won 12 games. Maybe, if you're lucky, you'll someday get back to the point where you can simply enjoy your own team without having to try tearing down others to make yourself feel better."

Funny, I don't really see any context there that renders my assessment of your intended meaning as inaccurate. It's entirely possible that I'm just as thick-headed and unable to perceive nuance as you suggest I am, but it seems more likely that you were merely lashing out in frustration and disappointment, and when I responded to that, you quickly switched gears and insisted that I'd misunderstood your intended meaning.

However, if you continue to insist that the above-quoted posts contains any other meaning than the one I took from it, I'll just have to conclude that nuance isn't your strong point as a poster (no worries, you can't be good at everything).

 

[bocabull]

Lol @ sawyer comparing Haith to Kruger. Haith is 46 years old and has won a single NCAA game. He is the definition of a nobody and well below Capel. Kruger has taken 3 different programs to the sweet 16 (would have been 4 except he was given an NBA job). If that's not elite please list the other coaches who have done so.

sawyer is going to make a perfect SECer, another clueless homer.

 

[Sawyer]

Ah, but you didn't say that he's a damned good coach, did you? Nor did anyone in this thread suggest (unless I missed it, and if I did, I trust you'll clue me in) that Kruger is on that level. Quite a straw man you've put forward there.

Once again taking things out of context.

Did I specifically say in that one post that Kruger's a good coach? No. But I have said it several times on here. If you're going to pull sentences out of entire posts and ignore everything else I've ever said, you're going to come away with completely distorted understandings of what I'm actually saying.

So, again I suggest to you that the problem lies not in my (or anyone else's) limited skills of comprehension, but in your (lack of) ability to effectively communicate your intended meaning.

See above. I post assuming readers are capable of continuing to think after they hit the punctuation in a sentence.

That, and your unwillingness to stand behind your posts, as you instead pretend after the fact that you meant something entirely different than what you posted.

I stand behind what I post, and I defend it against misinterpretations borne out of a limited reading. And no, more fully quoting a single post isn't going to help you here ("context" does not mean quoting a full paragraph).

What you quoted is nothing more than a jab at OU following disparaging comments from a repeat offender. If he's going to call my team a loser, I'll turn around and point out the numerous losses suffered by his own. It's nothing more than that. I'd assume most who read it would understand it as such. It's not an all-encompassing explanation of my understanding of the negative attention MU is currently receiving. I get that there's more to it (hence the use of "simply" in a later post, which you would later quote). You're delusional, though, if you think MU's 30 wins had nothing to do with it (not exactly a lot of mocking of A&M's losses here this year). There are multiple factors that go into it (like with anything). I posted about just one of them, but that doesn't suggest I believe that to be the only factor. Again... it was a jab at a guy acting like a dick. A reminder that as bad as it is to see your team lose to a 15 seed, 29 wins in two years sucks a hell of a lot more.

So... like I said. You read way more into that than you should've. Context, my man...

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

You're in KC. You're surrounded by MU fans who are surrounded by kansas fans. That city has got to be a psychiatrist's dream. The amount of complexes waiting to be diagnosed must be staggering. Those people aren't really representative of the fan base as a whole.

If you've had issues in Columbia, blame the bocas of the world.

As for softball... I doubt either of us really care. But I do know enough about the sport to know great pitching almost always trumps great hitting, and MU has the best pitcher in the country (as well as a beast of a freshman from Oklahoma in 6-4 Bailey Erwin).

Try growing up here. Where I live is KU central. Throw in MU, KSU, NU fans and it's a bit of a looney bin at times. My typical MU fans are the frat boy types that my dad and I almost came to blows with years ago.

I do enjoy softball as well as baseball. I follow both. you do have a great pitcher(is that catcher still there too?) but we have a good one too. I'm tired of losing to MU 1-0.

 

[Sawyer]

Lol @ sawyer comparing Haith to Kruger. Haith is 46 years old and has won a single NCAA game. He is the definition of a nobody and well below Capel. Kruger has taken 3 different programs to the sweet 16 (would have been 4 except he was given an NBA job). If that's not elite please list the other coaches who have done so.

After next year, Haith very well could have a better career winning percentage than Kruger. That from a guy in his mid-40s and just one NCAA tournament win. And you're saying Kruger's elite.

I don't know how many guys have taken three teams to Sweet 16s, but most of the time an elite coach doesn't coach at six different schools. He finds a good program and stays awhile.

That said, here are a few guys I'd consider at or above Kruger's level...

Rick Barnes (533 career wins, .670 winning percentage, 17 straight NCAA tournament appearances, 20 tournament wins, 1 final four)
Bill Self (472 wins, .750, national title, etc.... I'm not going to run down the list for everyone)

Ben Howland (three straight final fours, 65% winning career)
Lorenzo Romar (not really elite, but I'm including him because he does have 310 wins and is a career 61% coach... he very well could get to the next level)
Sean Miller (like Romar, not quite there yet, but among the better young coaches. He will get there)
Mike Montgomery (one of the more underrated coaches in the country; he's struggled in the tournament, but he does have a final four... plus about 630 wins)

Krzyzewski
Roy No explanation needed for either; two of the best

Calipari
Donovan
Kevin Stallings (like Romar and Miller, not yet truly elite, but he's a .634 coach at VANDERBILT with 380+ wins; if/when he gets a job at a basketball school, he very well could move to the next level)
Anderson (don't think he's a championship-level recruiter, and if you beat his system you beat him, but he'll still a career .669 coach, and at Arkansas he'll at the very least maintain that (about 22-23 wins/year)

Crean (I'm not a huge fan, but he does have a final four, and with Indiana seemingly over their rough years, he'll establish himself among the better coaches in the country)
John Beilein (borderline, but he's at worst near the top of the second tier)
Izzo
Tubby
Matta
Matt Painter (one of the best young coaches in the country; he'll end up in elite territory if he's not already)
Bo Ryan

Calhoun
Boeheim
John Thompson (he's got some work to do, but he's well on his way)
Jay Wright (maybe debatable as an elite coach, but he's a .638 coach with a final four and 350+ career wins, and he just turned 50)
Jamie Dixon
Huggins
Mike Brey (.664 career winning, 358 wins)
Pitino

I'm sure a few of these are a stretch, and I'm sure there will be some disagreements (quite possible I left a few off, as well, especially at the mid-major level). But I don't think it's a huge stretch to say most of these guys are at the very least close to Kruger.

I do find it interesting, though, that you, boca, of all people, would try to paint Kruger as elite, considering you have him a D grade for the season.

 

[Sawyer]

Try growing up here. Where I live is KU central. Throw in MU, KSU, NU fans and it's a bit of a looney bin at times. My typical MU fans are the frat boy types that my dad and I almost came to blows with years ago.

I do enjoy softball as well as baseball. I follow both. you do have a great pitcher(is that catcher still there too?) but we have a good one too. I'm tired of losing to MU 1-0.

I'll pass on KC. I live about as close to kansas now as I ever intend to. I'm perfectly content keeping a 120 mile buffer between myself and that state.

Our catcher graduated. I believe we moved our short stop from the past couple years behind the plate (only girl on the team who could handle catching Thomas, apparently). As good as last year's catcher was behind the plate, she was an awful hitter.

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

First of all, good research.

After next year, Haith very well could have a better career winning percentage than Kruger. That from a guy in his mid-40s and just one NCAA tournament win. And you're saying Kruger's elite.

Kruger - 814 games. Haith - 264 games. Not really a fair comparison. Call me in about 600 or so games. Or maybe next year when all his seniors are gone.

I don't know how many guys have taken three teams to Sweet 16s, but most of the time an elite coach doesn't coach at six different schools. He finds a good program and stays awhile.

I do know he never hightailed it from his previous school one step ahead of the NCAA cops. No matter what the decision on him this week another(total two) of his former players was disciplined for improper goings on while Haith was the coach. Don't know if he deserves the black cloud or not but I'd damn sure be carrying an unbrella.

 

[Sawyer]

Yes, Kruger's done it over a lot longer period. Point is, a winning percentage that comes out to about 21 wins/year isn't worth crowing about. A lot of guys have done that. Whether you're talking 814 career games or just 264, it still comes out to 21 wins/year.

From what I've read, Haith had no idea the NCAA was about to come snooping around. Nor did anyone else. There was no indication this was coming. That said, what's come out so far definitely doesn't bother me and doesn't implicate Haith in any violations. Although the NCAA has suspended two players (at least one reinstated already, and I believe the other was a similar situation), they haven't done anything to the kid Shapiro said he paid $5,000 to go to Miami. Miami initially held him out, just in case, but they did eventually play him. If there was anything to that claim, I have to believe he would've continued to be held out.

Maybe more comes out when the final report is released. If so, we'll see what happens to Haith. If the violations stay on the level of what's been released already (assistant coach allowed player's family to use his frequent flier miles), I'm not too worried.

 

[buttermaker1]

How did this turn into Kruger vs Haith? Who cares really OU fans are happy with Kruger and MU with Haith. I like our chances of success under Kruger and MU's future mid major status under Haith.

This thread was about MU's white trash reaction and action after the big 12 tourney and history bracket busting loss to a girl named Norfolk Tech.

Many of the talking heads were picking MU to make the final 4 and were in a uproar MU was the last 2 seed. This makes the MU loss the worst first round loss in NCAA tourney history.

Anyway good luck recruiting texas and oklahoma in the future we won't send many kids to HillyBilly, Mo to play in the SEC.

 

[skyvue]

Did I specifically say in that one post that Kruger's a good coach? No. But I have said it several times on here.

Lots of opposing fans blow nice, friendly smoke for a while until something happens (like a first-round loss to a #15 seed) to convince them to reveal how they truly feel (call it Cheno Syndrome), so what an opposing fan has said in the past often matters little when he later reverses himself and posts jabs at the very thing he once praised.

If you tell a gal she's fat and ugly, she's not going to recall that you once complimented her appearance. She'll figure, and understandably so, that the latest remarks negate the earlier ones.

You might want to remember this phenomenon when you start hanging out on opposing SEC boards. They won't necessarily remember what you said days, weeks or months earlier when you later start ragging on their program. That might not be fair, but it's the way it is. The rules are simply different for opposing fans, and it will always be thus. (I assume it's the same on Mizzou boards, though I wouldn't know. I've never had occasion to visit one.)

As for us not celebrating A&M losses, that's a questionable comparison at best. The celebration occurred here when Mizzou lost in the NCAA tourney, not with every regular season loss they suffered. Had A&M squeaked into the tourney and lost their first game, it would have been celebrated here, too. It's the finality of it -- the departing program's last basketball game as a member of the Big 12 -- that allows fans to say, "See you, chump. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out of the conference."

Then, of course, there's the humiliation factor, the 2 seed losing to a 15 seed thing. That's a special brand of fail right there, something you don't see every day. So if one is already inclined to wish a team ill, seeing it suffer an historic loss in the tourney (#2 seeds have only lost in the first round eight times, I think) affords a rare opportunity for schadenfreude.

 

[bocabull]

I do find it interesting, though, that you, boca, of all people, would try to paint Kruger as elite, considering you have him a D grade for the season.

LOL @ you pivoting to writing a novel because you could not name a coach who has led 3 programs to the sweet 16. Must be pretty elite. Mike Anderson will soon be leading Arkansas to the sweet 16 and joining the club with Kruger and a select few.

I gave Kruger a D this season because I'm objective. Unlike you I'm not a clueless homer.

 

[Sawyer]

Lots of opposing fans blow nice, friendly smoke for a while until something happens (like a first-round loss to a #15 seed) to convince them to reveal how they truly feel (call it Cheno Syndrome) ...

You can go ahead and believe whatever you'd like. Your mind was made up before I made a single post yesterday.

LOL @ you pivoting to writing a novel because you could not name a coach who has led 3 programs to the sweet 16. Must be pretty elite. Mike Anderson will soon be leading Arkansas to the sweet 16 and joining the club with Kruger and a select few.

I gave Kruger a D this season because I'm objective. Unlike you I'm not a clueless homer.

Like I said, most coaches capable of it don't end up coaching six different schools. That's like putting Larry Brown in Krzyzewski's league because he won an NBA title too. You don't get bonus points for the number of jobs you have.

He's a top 30-35 type coach, but Kruger isn't in the top echelon.

 

[garyeb2]

You can go ahead and believe whatever you'd like. Your mind was made up before I made a single post yesterday.



Like I said, most coaches capable of it don't end up coaching six different schools. That's like putting Larry Brown in Krzyzewski's league because he won an NBA title too. You don't get bonus points for the number of jobs you have.

He's a top 30-35 type coach, but Kruger isn't in the top echelon.

He will most likely have 600 wins before he leaves Oklahoma and an easy include in the Hall of Fame. Sounds top echelon to me.