Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

[MNsooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

That's how I see it. We don't have to replace starters this year to make the Dance. That said, I could possibly see one of the frosh guards starting for Cam if he struggles like he did for much of last year. But it won't be from day 1.

I agree Cam's spot is the most at risk from the incoming players. And obviously only 2 of M'Baye, Fitz, and Osby can start. I think the bigger question isn't if the freshman can start, but it is how many minutes can they get from our starters.

Here were the minutes our back court gave us last year.


Player --------------- Minutes Per Game

Steven Pledger ------- 32.9 Minutes

Sam Grooms ---------- 31.5 Minutes

Cameron Clark -------- 27.2 Minutes

Calvin Newell --------- 19.6 Minutes

Carl Blair ------------- 15.4 Minutes

We know for sure that we have to replace Carl Blair and Calvin Newell's minutes. Beyond that, the newcomers will be fighting some established players for minutes. I think if one of our freshman comes in and lights things up they could get minutes from Clark. I would be surprised to see Pledger loss any minutes because only a pretty special freshman is going to come in and out play him. Grooms may loss minutes if he never gets his shot to fall, but my guess is that Kruger won't trust a freshman to run his offense for most of the season. No matter what we can expect to see plenty of back up minutes from one or two of the freshman.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

I bet Cousins-Hornbeak-Hield-Mbaye-Bennett could beat Grooms-Pledger-Clark-Fitzgerald-Osby in a scrimmage.

Nope.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

I agree Cam's spot is the most at risk from the incoming players. And obviously only 2 of M'Baye, Fitz, and Osby can start. I think the bigger question isn't if the freshman can start, but it is how many minutes can they get from our starters.

Here were the minutes our back court gave us last year.


Player --------------- Minutes Per Game

Steven Pledger ------- 32.9 Minutes

Sam Grooms ---------- 31.5 Minutes

Cameron Clark -------- 27.2 Minutes

Calvin Newell --------- 19.6 Minutes

Carl Blair ------------- 15.4 Minutes

We know for sure that we have to replace Carl Blair and Calvin Newell's minutes. Beyond that, the newcomers will be fighting some established players for minutes. I think if one of our freshman comes in and lights things up they could get minutes from Clark. I would be surprised to see Pledger loss any minutes because only a pretty special freshman is going to come in and out play him. Grooms may loss minutes if he never gets his shot to fall, but my guess is that Kruger won't trust a freshman to run his offense for most of the season. No matter what we can expect to see plenty of back up minutes from one or two of the freshman.

It will definitely be interesting. Basically, we'll have about 40 minutes, give or take, of minutes at the 1-3 spots that will need to come from the bench. Some games it may be more than that, some games less. The three freshmen guards, and Neal will be fighting for those minutes. How it shakes out, I have no idea.

 

[MNsooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

It will definitely be interesting. Basically, we'll have about 40 minutes, give or take, of minutes at the 1-3 spots that will need to come from the bench. Some games it may be more than that, some games less. The three freshmen guards, and Neal will be fighting for those minutes. How it shakes out, I have no idea.

I left Neal off of the list because from what I can tell he and Blair more or less split Newell's minutes after he left. I figured including him would make it seem like there were more minutes available than there actually are. I may be a bit pessimistic about Neal, but I think the 13 minutes a game we got from him this year is the most we are likely to get from him next year as well. I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[garyeb2]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

I bet Cousins-Hornbeak-Hield-Mbaye-Bennett could beat Grooms-Pledger-Clark-Fitzgerald-Osby in a scrimmage.

That needs to be refined just alittle. You need Osby. A team of Cousins,Heild, M'Baye, Bennett and Osby would beat Grooms, Pledger, Cam, Fitz., and Osby. Not only would they beat them. They would beat them badly.

Last year it was well into the start of the regular season before the 1's could beat the 2's in a scrimmage. The 2's were Blair, M'baye, CJ, Arent, and at times Calvin and other times a walkon.

Osby and M'baye are the only two currently on campus that will matchup well on both ends of the court with upper division Big 12 opponents. Grooms is a pretty salty point guard and can defend all but the best of them. . But, if he can not find a jump shot, they won't beat anyone good.

Good and experienced beats good and in-experienced. But, experienced doesn't beat good. Never has. If any of these new faces can play a lick, they will get big minutes. If any of you guys think that the words "returning starter" are currently in Kruger's vocabulary, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

smh

 

[MNsooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

smh

:clap

I like how in order to recover from a silly position he just added the same player to both teams.

 

[Tundrasooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

smh

I don't get it.

 

[Tundrasooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

Anyone think that Cam would be a good 6 man?
Like a Daryon Selvy? Come off the bench and give some athleticism and some energy.

 

[MNsooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

I don't get it.

It means shake my head. He is saying that the freshman/newcomers vs. starters debate has gotten too ridiculous for him to do anything but shake his head at it. That is how I read it at least.

 

[MNsooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

Anyone think that Cam would be a good 6 man?
Like a Daryon Selvy? Come off the bench and give some athleticism and some energy.

I think he would be good off the bench because he brings energy on defense. The disadvantages would be that his offense requires rhythm and you usually want guys who can heat up quickly off the bench. Unless we play M'Baye at the 3 I am not sure we have a better option at that position.

 

[Tundrasooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

It means shake my head. He is saying that the freshman/newcomers vs. starters debate has gotten too ridiculous for him to do anything but shake his head at it. That is how I read it at least.

Thanks.

 

[vbdad]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

I left Neal off of the list because from what I can tell he and Blair more or less split Newell's minutes after he left. I figured including him would make it seem like there were more minutes available than there actually are. I may be a bit pessimistic about Neal, but I think the 13 minutes a game we got from him this year is the most we are likely to get from him next year as well. I hope he proves me wrong.

You are correct. It will be hard for him to find minutes unless he improves dramatically.

 

[garyeb2]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

:clap

I like how in order to recover from a silly position he just added the same player to both teams.

Mr. Administrater. Explain this to me. If you can. No one has been able to to this point. Since you want to take a side, take a swing.

The games have been played. Last season is over. As is the two preceeding. The results are in. The Sooners lost. They have lost year after year.

There is an overiding reason that they lost. I know, at first it was bad coaching. Another one tried and he lost too. So it wasn't that. Then it was the point guard couldn't made a shot or Cam couldn't make a shot or this or that or something else. Now, if we just had better players sitting on the bench 32 minutes a game and cheering real hard for our boys, we are going to the tourney.

Horse hockey. OU was 5-13 in conference last season because 10 teams had better players. And on top of that most of the teams OU has played the last two years have had better players too. And they beat us.

Capel got fired for bringing in a bunch of players he couldn't win with. And, he cheated. Kruger is still stuck with some of them. OU won't be a good program again until they are all gone and Kruger has brought in some better ones.

If these freshman are the caliber of player Kruger can win with in the Big 12. And I or anyone else should not have any reason to think they aren't. Then, even as freshmen, they will be able to do many things, if not most things, better than these one trick ponies Capel left behind. And they will be rewarded with significant playing time.

What has to happen? What kind of evidence do you need? Is it going to take another losing year for you to finally figure out that well mayby we need better players on the floor? You guys want to bash Capel. But, you will defend his players no one can win with till the end. Go figure.

 

[WTSooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

Our "bad players" were good enough to lead Cincinnati most of that game. They were good enough to lead KU at halftime. They were good enough to lead aTm, on the road, nearly the entire game before blowing it late. They were good enough to beat KSU twice. They were good enough to play Mizzou down to the wire in Norman. They were good enough to lead Baylor on the road at halftime. They were good enough to lead UT on the road at halftime.

I know what your response will be, "well, they weren't good enough to win."

True. But if your starters are playing competitive for 30 out of 40 minutes, maybe your starters aren't the biggest problem. Benches are important. Benches play a role. Benches have to be able to play competitive basketball while giving tired, or injured, or in foul trouble players a break. Our bench could not do that. Benches have to pick the starters up when they aren't playing well. When they have an off shooting night. Our bench couldn't do that last year. We didn't have a single true guard (2/3) on the bench last year. Not a one. I THINK our bench will be able to do that this year. And if it does, and everything else plays out EXACTLY how it did last year, we'll be 3-4 wins better. BOOM!!! That alone and we're a bubble team. If Grooms shoots better, or Cam shoots better, or we can bring in the those bench players, SITUATIONALLY, to hit a big shot, or get a big stop, we're Dancing for sure.

Why you think we need a completely overall to win an additional 4-5 games, I will never understand. Truth is, I don't think anybody on this board understands that. Yes, in time it'll be nice to have more complete, more athletic basketball players starting for OU. But if you think some nice, but non-elite, guards are going to come in and still major minutes from Grooms or Pledger, or Cam if he plays better, you are nuts. That isn't going to happen if our returners play like they did last year. We don't need that to happen. It's like you don't remember the growing pains that freshman guards have. Most of our good guard recruits didn't have to start as freshmen, and the ones that did had a lot of talent around them to protect them (Hollis). The ones that didn't (Lav, LMac, TMG) all struggled. TMG struggled with talent around him.

 

[MNsooner]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

Mr. Administrater. Explain this to me. If you can. No one has been able to to this point. Since you want to take a side, take a swing.

The games have been played. Last season is over. As is the two preceeding. The results are in. The Sooners lost. They have lost year after year.

There is an overiding reason that they lost. I know, at first it was bad coaching. Another one tried and he lost too. So it wasn't that. Then it was the point guard couldn't made a shot or Cam couldn't make a shot or this or that or something else. Now, if we just had better players sitting on the bench 32 minutes a game and cheering real hard for our boys, we are going to the tourney.

Horse hockey. OU was 5-13 in conference last season because 10 teams had better players. And on top of that most of the teams OU has played the last two years have had better players too. And they beat us.

Capel got fired for bringing in a bunch of players he couldn't win with. And, he cheated. Kruger is still stuck with some of them. OU won't be a good program again until they are all gone and Kruger has brought in some better ones.

If these freshman are the caliber of player Kruger can win with in the Big 12. And I or anyone else should not have any reason to think they aren't. Then, even as freshmen, they will be able to do many things, if not most things, better than these one trick ponies Capel left behind. And they will be rewarded with significant playing time.

What has to happen? What kind of evidence do you need? Is it going to take another losing year for you to finally figure out that well mayby we need better players on the floor? You guys want to bash Capel. But, you will defend his players no one can win with till the end. Go figure.

I think the players we are bringing in will have good big 12 careers, but it is as if you don't believe player development exists. Just because they aren't as good when they are coming straight from high school as a 4 year player doesn't mean they won't be.

 

[garyeb2]

Re: Sooners Round Out 2012 Class with Bennett and Spangler >>> OUHoops.com

I think the players we are bringing in will have good big 12 careers, but it is as if you don't believe player development exists. Just because they aren't as good when they are coming straight from high school as a 4 year player doesn't mean they won't be.

No, I do think player developement exist. Players like Pledger and Fitz are better now than when they were freshmen. I could list several examples of that. But, they have plenty of defenders already.