The roster is in chaos right now

[WichitaSooner]

OSU should have been a sweep. Same with ISU.

People keep talking about how great the Big XII is, but who actually believes that? If so, please explain why KU winning conference is a forgone conclusion every year. They wouldn't have done this in any other P5 conference. They'd be happy to win 3-4 every decade in the ACC.

Well, it isn't mutually exclusive. The league can be very good, but KU can also be the only truly elite team. I agree that it is hard to believe they have won 14straight, and that wouldn't have happened in the ACC where you have two or three teams every year that are among the 10 best in the country. The Big 12 doesn't usually have that, but does have great depth ,and because it is a smaller league, we don't have a handful of awful teams at the bottom to drag down our RPI. In those 14 years, there have been probably a handful of years when a team was good enough to end the streak (including OU two years ago), but no one has managed to do it. Credit to Self, to Allen Fieldhouse, to KU players, and probably some luck and a favorable whistle every now and then. Also, no one is arguing that the Big 12 was the best league in every one of those seasons. But it clearly has been one of the two or three best for the past several years.

 

[DenverSooner]

The Big 8/12 is a significantly more competitive conference now than it was during their tenures. How often in the 1980s, '90s and early 2000s did the conference get touted as the best in the country? I don't recall it ever

I disagree with this. In the early 2000s OU,OSU, KU and I think Texas all went to the final four.

In 1988 OU and KU were in the final four. Missouri, ISU and KSU were very good. In 1989 OU, KU and Missouri we’re ranked 1, 2 and 3. OSU won at home and then went to the final four in the early 90s. About the only easy games were CU and Nebraska and they both had a good season or two in the early 90s. CU had the team with Donnie Boyce that was solid. I think Nebraska had a good team with Rich King at center. Those were not great teams but they were solid.

Personally, I would argue the Big 8/Big 12 has been very good at basketball for a long time. Very few easy games.

 

[oudna]

I disagree with this. In the early 2000s OU,OSU, KU and I think Texas all went to the final four.

In 1988 OU and KU were in the final four. Missouri, ISU and KSU were very good. In 1989 OU, KU and Missouri we’re ranked 1, 2 and 3. OSU won at home and then went to the final four in the early 90s. About the only easy games were CU and Nebraska and they both had a good season or two in the early 90s. CU had the team with Donnie Boyce that was solid. I think Nebraska had a good team with Rich King at center. Those were not great teams but they were solid.

Personally, I would argue the Big 8/Big 12 has been very good at basketball for a long time. Very few easy games.

It was watered down a bit with the addition of the Texas schools in ‘96

But they eventually improved

 

[WTSooner]

So when the Big 12 does badly in the Dance, we hear about how overrated the conference was. And when the Big 12 does well, it's a March Madness fluke.

The conference's RPI has been at or near the top virtually every year of late. Does that not count? If a strong showing in the tourney doesn't mean the conference is good and a high (or top) conference ranking during the regular season doesn't mean the conference is good, I'm not sure where to turn. Shall we just let Bilas, Raftery and Vitale name the best conference every year?

You don't hear that from me. I put very little stock in how a conference does in March. It's also pretty silly to try and rate conferences each year. Sample size is too small, and teams/conferences are playing way different schedule types.

RPI is built on OOC scheduling, then it is set. Once teams hit conference play, the conferences don't really move up or down the rankings. Doesn't seem like a great measurement to me.

We were a good conference this year. Maybe the best, maybe not. Either way, it certainly wasn't definitive, and we certainly weren't head and shoulders better. We had a deep conference. Despite our March showing, I still think some other conferences had more good teams.

 

[skyvue]

I disagree with this. In the early 2000s OU,OSU, KU and I think Texas all went to the final four.

In 1988 OU and KU were in the final four. Missouri, ISU and KSU were very good. In 1989 OU, KU and Missouri we’re ranked 1, 2 and 3. OSU won at home and then went to the final four in the early 90s. About the only easy games were CU and Nebraska and they both had a good season or two in the early 90s. CU had the team with Donnie Boyce that was solid. I think Nebraska had a good team with Rich King at center. Those were not great teams but they were solid.

Personally, I would argue the Big 8/Big 12 has been very good at basketball for a long time. Very few easy games.

The Big 8/12 have always had good teams in those year, of course -- who has said otherwise? -- but rarely if ever had the top-to-bottom quality the conference has boasted in recent years.

Nowadays, national commentators regularly point to the Big 12 as the best conference, and the ranking services back that up. That's very different from 20 or 30 years ago.

 

[Eielson]

Well, it isn't mutually exclusive. The league can be very good, but KU can also be the only truly elite team. I agree that it is hard to believe they have won 14straight, and that wouldn't have happened in the ACC where you have two or three teams every year that are among the 10 best in the country. The Big 12 doesn't usually have that, but does have great depth ,and because it is a smaller league, we don't have a handful of awful teams at the bottom to drag down our RPI. In those 14 years, there have been probably a handful of years when a team was good enough to end the streak (including OU two years ago), but no one has managed to do it. Credit to Self, to Allen Fieldhouse, to KU players, and probably some luck and a favorable whistle every now and then. Also, no one is arguing that the Big 12 was the best league in every one of those seasons. But it clearly has been one of the two or three best for the past several years.

I agree with this. I guess it comes down to what you define as best conference. The Big XII undoubtedly has impressive depth, but it's also underwhelming at the top. Due to Kansas, it's a difficult conference to win (as are all conferences), but it's one of the easiest to finish in the top 2 or 3. Outside of KU, I can't think of very many great teams the Big XII has produced. I may be blanking (I'm sure I am), but over the past decade or so, I can only think of OU's squad 2 years ago and Blake Griffin's team. In the early 2000's, it seemed like there was one every year, whether it be Fizer and ISU, Ford and Texas, Sutton's Final 4 run at OSU, or Hollis and co.

At the end of the day, though, I see little reason to believe Sampson wouldn't be racking up 20 win seasons. The game hasn't passed him by.

 

[CoachTalk]

We've been through this. I know who you are, and I think you oversell it on the board. Simple as that. I won't apologize for the comment I made earlier, but I probably shouldn't have made it. Combination of you embellishing who you are, and my dislike of the whole teacher strike thing. <shrugs>

Hs coach with a couple connections!

I’m pretty much a rockstar.

 

[DenverSooner]

The Big 8/12 have always had good teams in those year, of course -- who has said otherwise? -- but rarely if ever had the top-to-bottom quality the conference has boasted in recent years.

Nowadays, national commentators regularly point to the Big 12 as the best conference, and the ranking services back that up. That's very different from 20 or 30 years ago.

I think you remember wrong and the big 12 has been the best or second best conference for decades. I am not remotely suggesting the big -2 is not the best now.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Hs coach with a couple connections!

I’m pretty much a rockstar.

WT played intramurals at Tulsa so he's clearly more qualified. :ez-roll: